Closed road events insurance

[356993???]

Who are people using for insurance coverage on closed road events? (Eg like Targa Tours)

 

[Airhead]

CAMS

[Skidmarks]

CAMS and AASA.

AASA is doing loads more these days.

[Redracn]

I assume that the inquiry is about car coverage when participating in the closed road stages. As a Tour Entrant you will have CAMS cover but this does not cover property damage to your vehicle or damage to other vehicles. You may want to look at CAMS policy detail.

[356993???]

Thanks for the replies. I am seeking out comprehensive type of insurance and all insurers so far say 'no' to a closed road event ( which therefore includes Targa Tas Tour category). I know no one goes into the Tour wanting to go off the road, but a quick scan online shows a few have...and I would hope they were covered beyond personal and public liability matters (looking at the sheer damage $$$ to the cars). Shannons won't touch it - ironic then I guess that they sponsored a certain gentleman for many years in Targa itself, AASA don't appear to cover vehicle damage either. Do people just chance it that they won't have an off?

[MFX]

Thanks for the replies. I am seeking out comprehensive type of insurance and all insurers so far say 'no' to a closed road event ( which therefore includes Targa Tas Tour category). I know no one goes into the Tour wanting to go off the road, but a quick scan online shows a few have...and I would hope they were covered beyond personal and public liability matters (looking at the sheer damage $$$ to the cars). Shannons won't touch it - ironic then I guess that they sponsored a certain gentleman for many years in Targa itself, AASA don't appear to cover vehicle damage either. Do people just chance it that they won't have an off?

I know there are companies in the US who do cover you on the track, but I have always been led to believe, that if you drive on a track (our Tour) in Aus it is at your own risk. If you find someone who does cover you it will be interesting to see what they charge. If not, it looks like quite a decent untapped market for some insurance company with some balls, lets face it, anything can be insured, it is just a matter of working out the premium based on the risk.

[ANF]

I think this was discussed on here previously, not sure of the result but maybe someone did cover it, but yes it would be at a hefty premium...

[edgy]

Famous offer cover for CAMS sanctioned events, is not a full cover product though. 

Basically

$100 premium per event

$1,000 excess 

$10,000 max payout

its really only intended if you have a minor incident. 

 

[Ten Degrees]

Thanks for the replies. I am seeking out comprehensive type of insurance and all insurers so far say 'no' to a closed road event ( which therefore includes Targa Tas Tour category). I know no one goes into the Tour wanting to go off the road, but a quick scan online shows a few have...and I would hope they were covered beyond personal and public liability matters (looking at the sheer damage $$$ to the cars). Shannons won't touch it - ironic then I guess that they sponsored a certain gentleman for many years in Targa itself, AASA don't appear to cover vehicle damage either. Do people just chance it that they won't have an off?

Last year, a 997 GT3 went off and had major damage when another (proper targa entrant) went off also and ran into the back of it.  He had insurance and it was repaired.  The Porsche tour last year had 60 cars, 4 of which went off.  From memory, a GT4, 997 GT3, 997 Turbo and a late 60's Targa.

If you're doing the Porsche tour, have fun, but just take it a little bit easy!  You're limited to speed anyway.  If it's dry roads, seed yourself properly within your group and drive within both yours and your cars limits.  I've done it 3 times and never had insurance.  It's by far the best fun/holiday/event I've done!  If I could afford to, I'd do both Tassie and High Country ever year...

 

[Pork Chops]

Do people just chance it that they won't have an off?

Yes. If you can't afford to crash it don't drive it. Accidents can happen but it's about knowing how to mange risk. I've done plenty of closed road events and never had an issue. So far. I'd be surprised if there was a viable way of insuring a car in a motorsports event or closed roads.

[Teutonic]

Still amazes me people crash in the tour. It's the tour FFS. If you want to go hard enough to crash, get in the main game. As above, you should really only Tarmac rally with something you can afford to crash. But the tour???? It's non competitive  and should be easy enough to just drive within your limits  and stay on the road. It's only as risky as you make it. 

There is insurance you can get for cars for circuit racing so I would expect this could be extended to targa style events. But as mentioned above the premiums were fairly eye watering as were the excess. But would be useful in a total loss situation, Say it caught on fire, or a big shunt as the bills appear to add up quick with P cars. 

I believe the GT4 got covered by insurance as well which was a good thing as apparently repair extended into 6 figures. Brand new front clip sent out from the factory. 

[Pork Chops]

Still amazes me people crash in the tour. It's the tour FFS. If you want to go hard enough to crash, get in the main game. As above, you should really only Tarmac rally with something you can afford to crash. But the tour???? It's non competitive  and should be easy enough to just drive within your limits  and stay on the road. It's only as risky as you make it. 

This.  Accidents can happen but, yeah, this.

[Coastr]

Big dollops of moral hazard for offering coverage to cars participating in Motorsport.  Very hard to offer a realistic insurance product on that.

A friend just did his first circuit event. Car in front dropped oil on the track, straight to the scene of the accident.  Doh.

[Ten Degrees]

Still amazes me people crash in the tour. It's the tour FFS. If you want to go hard enough to crash, get in the main game. As above, you should really only Tarmac rally with something you can afford to crash. But the tour???? It's non competitive  and should be easy enough to just drive within your limits  and stay on the road. It's only as risky as you make it. 

There is insurance you can get for cars for circuit racing so I would expect this could be extended to targa style events. But as mentioned above the premiums were fairly eye watering as were the excess. But would be useful in a total loss situation, Say it caught on fire, or a big shunt as the bills appear to add up quick with P cars. 

I believe the GT4 got covered by insurance as well which was a good thing as apparently repair extended into 6 figures. Brand new front clip sent out from the factory. 

So I'm guessing you haven't done it?   Tour, is a very loose term.  In fact, when Porsche sold it to us, it was along the lines of "driving your car in the manner it was made to be driven".   When I first did it we weren't speed limited!  Now it's limited to 130ish, but again that's loose.  And 130 on tight winding roads where most corners are marked at 60 or less, is fast.   And yes it's competitive.  Get a glimpse of some tail lights in the distance, it's a red rag to a bull.    

Again, the best motorsport event I've done.  Great people.  Great value for money.  Will do it again, but unfortunately not this year.......

 

[Teutonic]

No I haven't done it. But I have done Targa Tas, High Country and the now defunct Wrest Point in the competition field.  This is a competitive event,  albeit for a trophy/plate and the chance to stand on a podium and spray champagne. Last time I checked the tour wasn't timed and there isn't a podium. ?

But I understand why you say it's "competitive" but this is also the reason guys find themselves in ditches on the side of the road. Getting the red mist and chasing a car where possibly the abilities of the driver and maybe the car (better tyres, suspension etc) are unknown may leave you wondering why they managed to negotiate the corner safely and you slid off the road. 

I am all for a good time and regularly take my motorbikes down there for a blast. There is some very spirited riding, but with the often more serious consequences of having an off on a bike you tend to keep a little up your sleeve. My view is the approach in a road car should be similar but maybe the reduced risk of injury gives a false sense of security.

Tarmac rallying (and let's say the tour) takes a different approach to circuit driving. Driving fast safely on open Tarmac takes practice and there are many road reading skills and driving techniques that keep you safe. On a circuit, you can go 100% as there is heaps of run off and often no consequences to putting a wheel or two off the black stuff. On open roads, you ALWAYS want a little margin for error up your sleeve. To the OP, you shouldn't need to have insurance worries. If you respect the roads and your own and your cars abilities, you should be able to go down there, have an amazing time, and come back in one piece. 

But I also highly recommend getting into a caged car you can afford to throw into the bush (despite the fact no one wants to) and give the full competitive event a go. It still stands up as my best Motorsport experience to date. 

[Ten Degrees]

No I haven't done it. But I have done Targa Tas, High Country and the now defunct Wrest Point in the competition field.  This is a competitive event,  albeit for a trophy/plate and the chance to stand on a podium and spray champagne. Last time I checked the tour wasn't timed and there isn't a podium. ?

But I understand why you say it's "competitive" but this is also the reason guys find themselves in ditches on the side of the road. Getting the red mist and chasing a car where possibly the abilities of the driver and maybe the car (better tyres, suspension etc) are unknown may leave you wondering why they managed to negotiate the corner safely and you slid off the road. 

I am all for a good time and regularly take my motorbikes down there for a blast. There is some very spirited riding, but with the often more serious consequences of having an off on a bike you tend to keep a little up your sleeve. My view is the approach in a road car should be similar but maybe the reduced risk of injury gives a false sense of security.

Tarmac rallying (and let's say the tour) takes a different approach to circuit driving. Driving fast safely on open Tarmac takes practice and there are many road reading skills and driving techniques that keep you safe. On a circuit, you can go 100% as there is heaps of run off and often no consequences to putting a wheel or two off the black stuff. On open roads, you ALWAYS want a little margin for error up your sleeve. To the OP, you shouldn't need to have insurance worries. If you respect the roads and your own and your cars abilities, you should be able to go down there, have an amazing time, and come back in one piece. 

But I also highly recommend getting into a caged car you can afford to throw into the bush (despite the fact no one wants to) and give the full competitive event a go. It still stands up as my best Motorsport experience to date. 

totally agree.   If people drove within their limits there'd be no issues. Fortunately most do, but some don't.  It's very easy to fall under the spell of your own ego and do things you probably shouldn't

As far as real targa events go, I don't think I have the balls to do it.   The last day of the targa last year was wet and very scary and we were going comparatively slow to the real event.   As you say, there are many skills and techniques......    I'm certainly not there yet!

[LeeM]

  Exactly why I'm 50/50 about doing the Classic rally tour here in SA in December in the 911. I know it's speed limited to 130kph, though even by taking it relatively easy whilst still 'spiritedly', there's always that chance I'll misjudge a corner and write off my car. I'd prefer not to do that, nor hurt anyone else in the car with me. There's bound to be a bit more 'enthusiasm' than a normal weekend cruise in the hills.

 I had planned to buy a cheap MGB GT or 924 early last year, shove a cage in it and just have some fun, yet prices went up, and personal circumstances changed, so it's not viable now. The old saying 'If you can't afford to crash, you can't afford to race' rings pretty true

[roders]

Targa Tours are awesome and a very well run event by PCA.  Not only for the Targa road stages but the complete accommodation and social events are what make the Porsche Packages stand out more than other Tours.

Insurance on these events is all down to fully reading your insurance PDS, don't always go by the Call Centre person when they say no we wont or yes we will cover you unless they can state where in the PDS will/wont cover the event.  Going by experience as we were on the 2016 Tour and had our incident covered, reading PDS made a big difference.  Major point with Targa Tours is that you are not "racing" as you are not being timed, being competitive and there are no requirements for helmets or additional safety devices which racing competitors must have to compete.

But like others have said, even with the possibility of insurance, Tarmac events in any class do come with a lot of risk and you should not risk what you cant afford to potentially loose.

99/100 times there should be no incidents but accidents do happen, just the same with driving on the road.  At least on a tour you "usually" don't have to worry about other cars (unless you were unlucky like the GT3).

You don't have to be pushing at 100% or full speed for an incident to occur, our incident was from a wrong turn. 

During the event we passed a couple of small wallabies which could have easily jumped in front to cause an accident both during Closed Road Stages and normal roads in Tasmania.

It was only a small ditch but still with Porsches a small incident can cause a big repair bill. Front corner impact (even with the bonnet and door without issues), required the full front clip due to a 1cm movement out of factory specs.  Front clip included also full interior to be removed and replaced, hence the big bill with a lot of labour.

But all worked out well in the end......thank GOD! we did not have to cover the full repair bill as it took a lot to get me off the floor when they first told me the estimate to repair.

Have since done a Bathurst and Albert Park event in the car and it is like nothing ever happened, but those event are 100% not covered under standard insurance.  Basically once you have to put a helmet on, you are at your own risk 100%.

Now back to Tassie for 2017 to do it all again . 

Feel free to PM me if you want insurance details

 

[Redracn]

If people drove within their limits there'd be no issues. 

I dont agree with this at all. ? There are many situations that can arise that could be considered very low odds of happening that thave nothing to do with limits. 

As stated by others the ability to read the road is very important but wildlife and mechanical issues can and do cause problems no matter how slowly you may be going.

Spotting the cow manurer and urine mix that is not properly contained by cattle trucks is a real art as it is near invisable and that stuff is as slippery as S%^*#

[sandy468]

Spotting the cow manurer and urine mix that is not properly contained by cattle trucks is a real art as it is near invisable and that stuff is as slippery as S%^*#

Almost came off my bike due to cow poop that appeared when I was committed in a hairpin ....