When to settle???

[bear924]

9 hours ago, Peter M said:

Your "right car" purchasing preferences are exactly the same as mine with the addition of two:

- Car needs to have cruise control

-Not interested in doing body work

I was meant to add cruise control my original list however forgot. Need it for the drives when I have to behave. Also agree on body work. I'm happy to work on mechanicals however body work is not my thing.

14 minutes ago, WOKA said:

You are destined to steer a 996..  Be that an NA, a TT or a GT3.

There - I've narrowed your search somewhat.!

 

That's like narrowing down to the suburb when looking for a house! Suspect it is very likely the next Pcar will be a 996, others in contention are 997,993,964. Feel Cayman would be an awesome car, certainly @AndrewW example in Tasmania was supposedly an good drive (couldn't tell you for sure as he was always way in front of me..).

[MFX]

I will soon be in the same boat. I am looking for a daily driver replacement for my S5 and I have the same check list. One of the other considerations for me, is that I would like to get into a car that I can more than likely sell again in 2-5 years with 20-50k extra k's and hopefully break even. I think there are quite a few Porsches now that fit into that category where they have reached the bottom of their depreciation curve. 

I am in the same boat considering 964/993/996/997's. I love 964's but to me the prices are over inflated at the moment, I see average manuals as $90-110k cars, not $50k over that. 996's I think are the bargain car at the moment, as I think they are at the price they are going to stay for a long time. I have even considered looking at a 993 auto and doing a manual conversion (as many of you know I like a project), as the current price difference would outweigh the costs. I do wonder how much less a 993 converted to manual is worth compared to a factory manual if everything else was the same though.

To me though, I keep swaying towards the 997, which I think will always be more sought after than the 996 as the exterior and interior are both a big step up. I think it could still come down a little bit in value as the newer models keep getting superseded, pushing the prices down, but not a lot. As a daily driver for me it would be hard to beat, as it is comfortable to drive all year round, and lets face it, most people still think it is still a brand new car.

[scashin]

My little story.

When 911's were cheap I read about the model variances and changes and decided I loved the look of the SC / 3.2 with a whale and IB.  The book told me the last of the 3.2 had all the latest fixes and with the G50 gearbox was a kind of perfect swan song for that whale and IB look.   I starting saving but with the threat of job redundancy on the horizon I keep saving not for the 911 but to weather the unemployment storm.  During that time 911 prices doubled *sigh* or more.

Eventually when I had job confidence and a nice pool of funds the Porsche market was in a crazy frenzy.  Cars selling in less then an hour.  No PPI performed just call up and buy it.  I didn't want to take the no PPI risk so missed out on some cars.  Eventually the market prices went crazy and I stepped away.

In the last year the market quietened and I started to watch prices begin to drop.  Cars were sitting for weeks now.  So I started again.  Checked out a few UK or Japan imports but they were too rusty or overpriced; plus I think I'd over capitalise very quickly.  A few local SC's and 3.2 were a bit too rough.  I wanted a car that had 2 out of 3 of the following - good interior, good paint, good mechanicals.  The ones I were finding were 1 out of 3.

Eventually as everyone says "the right one came along".  1988 3.2 with all the swan song changes and in the colour (grey) that I could live with.  Did a PPI, it was a very brief PPI document so I was a bit nervous about what was hiding.  Flew over and drove it, seemed good.  So I did the deal.  Car is back in Melbourne now and my mechanic tells me it is a decent example.  So it's getting new tyres, brakes, full service and a fix up of the whale (my favourite bit of the car).  The front is a bit sand blasted but as others had said I'd prefer that as I can drive it guilt free.

I agree with others.  Wait for the model you really want.  These are a lot of money and you don't want to sit in it and realise you should have waited.

[npvpositive]

Still surprises me that the first and second generation Caymans aren't more "sought after".   I remember doing the two-day Porsche driving course up in Queensland about 12 years ago (they were using 997s) and coming away with a clear impression that the Cayman S was the car I enjoyed most and felt safest driving at speed.

[scashin]

7 minutes ago, npvpositive said:

Still surprises me that the first and second generation Caymans aren't more "sought after".   I remember doing the two-day Porsche driving course up in Queensland about 12 years ago (they were using 997s) and coming away with a clear impression that the Cayman S was the car I enjoyed most and felt safest driving at speed.

I'd love a 2nd gen but have to get my 911 fill first

[ANF]

"When to settle" - never, you will regret it every time! (for all things in life.....)

1 hour ago, scashin said:

My little story.

When 911's were cheap I read about the model variances and changes and decided I loved the look of the SC / 3.2 with a whale and IB.  The book told me the last of the 3.2 had all the latest fixes and with the G50 gearbox was a kind of perfect swan song for that whale and IB look.   I starting saving but with the threat of job redundancy on the horizon I keep saving not for the 911 but to weather the unemployment storm.  During that time 911 prices doubled *sigh* or more.

Eventually when I had job confidence and a nice pool of funds the Porsche market was in a crazy frenzy.  Cars selling in less then an hour.  No PPI performed just call up and buy it.  I didn't want to take the no PPI risk so missed out on some cars.  Eventually the market prices went crazy and I stepped away.

In the last year the market quietened and I started to watch prices begin to drop.  Cars were sitting for weeks now.  So I started again.  Checked out a few UK or Japan imports but they were too rusty or overpriced; plus I think I'd over capitalise very quickly.  A few local SC's and 3.2 were a bit too rough.  I wanted a car that had 2 out of 3 of the following - good interior, good paint, good mechanicals.  The ones I were finding were 1 out of 3.

Eventually as everyone says "the right one came along".  1988 3.2 with all the swan song changes and in the colour (grey) that I could live with.  Did a PPI, it was a very brief PPI document so I was a bit nervous about what was hiding.  Flew over and drove it, seemed good.  So I did the deal.  Car is back in Melbourne now and my mechanic tells me it is a decent example.  So it's getting new tyres, brakes, full service and a fix up of the whale (my favourite bit of the car).  The front is a bit sand blasted but as others had said I'd prefer that as I can drive it guilt free.

I agree with others.  Wait for the model you really want.  These are a lot of money and you don't want to sit in it and realise you should have waited.

Congrats! When did this happen? Looking forward to seeing some pics! 

[OBRUT]

An alternative view is that espoused by, I think, the Collier collection.  When they decide to add a particular car they buy what is available and when a better one comes along they buy that/sell the first. Admittedly they are looking at the ultra rare segment of the market but the same logic can apply here.  

  Drive a 915 3.2 whilst waiting for your G50 car.

  Drive a guards red whilst waiting for anything else...

  Drive a Targa (or even a cab!) whilst waiting for the right coupe.

  Sporto/tip then manual.

  Cayman/Boxster then 996/997.

Etc etc

Life is too short to sit on the sidelines.  You are also kinda hedged against market moves and any fancy parts or the like that you acquire  can be swapped from A to B prior to selling on A.

 

[LeeM]

  Caymans can look bloody good. Just add wing and some rims....sorted! 

 

[Coastr]

In favor of settling : you get to be out driving and owning again, and might discover a gem that fits you perfectly. Variety is fun and makes for good chats in the future.

Against settling : if it's not the right model or the right color it's very rare that you'll just get over it.  The heart wants what the heart wants

In favor of waiting : the right car can pop up at any moment, and if you put the word out enough, sometimes the right answer will magically appear.  it also prevents impulse purchases and you will have the right gut feel when you do buy.

Against waiting : all those hours looking could have been used tinkering or driving

[bear924]

Glad to see that I'm not the only one who is challenged by the 'when to settle' question. Agree with @MFX that the 997s are beginning to look very attractive. I belief is that the 996/ 997 era will end up similar to the SC/ Carrera era where the new cars are 'better', however the older model also appeals by having a certain charm. My feel is that as the 997s age, the amount of electronics installed in them will become more of a negative. Not from a pure driving POV, more that old electronics can be hard to source. I'm keen to avoid the screen in the centre panel thing in either a 996 or 997 as I feel that's going to be a pain in 10 years time.

@scashin experience encourages me to wait for the right car to appear, while also accepting some risk (ie. the brief PPI). Glad you were able to find your car after all your waiting, bet you are glad you decided to let the market cool a little before buying now. Wonder what you would have purchased if you'd joined the rush during the boom.

@OBRUT approach has also crossed my mind. Have considered sourcing a Boxster S (86) or Boxster (87) just to give one a try. Suspect if Caymans were in this price range I'd consider them as well however they tend to be more expensive. Do like the pic that @LeeM posted, amazing what some wheels and a wing can do to a car.

@Coastr you're not helping!!

[Peter John]

Here is an idea- why not post what you're choosing between? Get input from others. I get it- they are not like shoes, can't try them all on, and who knows if red is your colour? Be good to have pro's and con's and for you to choose or weigh them all up.

 

[bear924]

I didn't really start the thread to allow me to make a decision however will share my thoughts for what they are worth. My reason for posting is because I feel it is an internal struggle that everyone faces when they are deciding to purchase their next Porsche. There is no right way to settle in my mind, however it is something that most people will need decide on before buying. What I've found interesting is the number variety of stories that people have shared. With some people looking at buying X, but ending with Y, while others looked at buying X and ended up with X.  Exploring the pros and cons of settling earlier or later is also an interesting thought process, especially if you end up missing out on a car you were keen on because the wheel hubs were not to your liking.

I've covered the following in other posts so I apologise if it's all old news. Before going model specific, I'll cover what I'm wanting to use the car for to help add context and allow people to challenge my thinking if they feel like doing so.

So my next Pcar will be one of two Porsches that I own, the other being a 924 turbo. The 924 is reliable and runs well and provides me with a great example of 70/80 motoring. Found I enjoyed driving the SC more than the 924 however I think this is primarily because the SC suspension was a bit harder, more sports car than grand tourer. The 924 has similar performance to a SC and is something of a momentum car .. similar to the SC. Both cars are weekend cars, so don't really care about suitability as a daily driver. As I live in regional Queensland, most of my driving is country/ touring driving. In the twelve months prior to selling the SC I'd taken it to Tasmania, Newcastle and the qld/nsw PFA meet. Also sometimes take Porsches when I need to travel for work. These are typically 500-1000km round trips with regional driving. Have done a number of track days with the 924 and don't want to convert the next Pcar into a track car. I do want to work at finding the limits of the next car via training days/ track days, so want something that is fun in that setting and will challenge me as I learn the car. Next P car will probably average 5-10k km per year, so not too stressed on running costs and fuel economy however it is still something I'm mindful of. Happy to do some work on the car, not scared of spinning a spanner however not looking for a project. If I could have convinced the boss to increase the number of Pcars to three I would have kept the SC (loved the steering feel and sound) however found the limitations of HVAC, cabin noise, similar era to 924 and power when overtaking the main reasons behind my decision to sell. I'm also a Porsche nerd so I'm typically attracted to lower volume offerings however I'm still considering cars that don't fall into this arena. Generally interested in more unique colours, sometimes struggle with interior colours more. Will purchase an imported car or converted car if the price is right. Not keen on LH drive cars. Budget... budget is relatively flexible. More interested in value than price.

So I've thought about lots of different models, my models I've thought about most are:

930 - Could potentially consider last of the model with 5 speed gearbox. Not sure if the car would be modern enough however suspect it would be more refined than my SC. Not many on the market and most sell (or listed for) for top dollar. Not sure I'd go this route when the price point introduces other options. 4 speed with larger A/C vents also a contender however the car would really have to call out to me. Would really like to move away from CIS (fuel injection system)  which you don't do until 3.6 964T. Not that there is anything wrong with CIS however want to try more modern fuel injection system.

964 - C2s are the hot 911 of the moment so difficult not to read about how great they are. Good mixture of new and old and have the classic air cooled engine. Cars aren't exactly powerful though and in my mind they are too expensive when compared to alternatives. A clean example at around the $100k mark would be more attractive to me, however would need to decide if they were modern/ powerful enough for me.

964 Turbo - Ha ha... I'm funny for including this on the list. Feel that ship has sailed and would probably want the 3.6, which is more like a double Ha ha.

993 - These seem to be better value than the 964s at the moment. Little more power and air cooled. Have found myself drifting away from the looks of the 993 over the last few years so they are calling to me less than they did. This is probably where I'll end up if I decide I want a 'slow' car to drive quick as opposed to a 'fast' car to drive slow.

993 Turbo - 10 years ago this was the car I wanted to buy. Remember doing the man maths on buying a 3 turbo when I purchased my SC. Appeal has reduced over time however still keen except I feel the price is too high for me to be able to not treat the car as an investment.

996C2 - Took one for a drive recently and was very impressed! I like the simplicity of the interior and found the car had much more aural feedback than I expected. Steering feedback different to SC however still felt good. Car wasn't slow and I didn't exactly work it too hard, however would be tempted to strap in a few more ponies.

996 Turbo - Not driven one. Feel they are one of the best value 911 about atm. Ideal choice if someone wanted to do some modifications as my understanding is that they are easier to modify than 997 turbos. Similar to other 996 in that they have much of the feel of the air cooled 911s with many of the conveniences of the later ones. Debate on the amount of steering feel vs GT3s however suspension probably better for the country roads I get to drive on.

996 GT3 - Have driven a S2 and had an extended ride in one as well. Was very close to purchasing a GT3 however wasn't quite quick enough and I missed out. Didn't find ride as harsh as many people suggest however perhaps over different roads it would be a different story. Liked all the things that people rave about (noise, steering etc). Uncertain whether to go touring or CS. Sure to be a future classic however purchase price starts opening up options of other Pcars.

996 GT2 - Have seen two in the flesh :-). This car appeals to my emotive side and there seems to be ways to lessen the widow maker aspect of the car (remap, suspension). Firmness of ride is said to be between GT3 and turbo, so perhaps a suitable compromise. Not many come up for sale with many still priced at boom prices. GT2s in UK now drifting under the 100k mark. Potentially a difficult car to sell on when the time comes as not everyone's cup of tea. Suspect it would be a car that would always be an event to drive with those smitten enjoying a long affair, and those bitten scared for life. Low ground clearance probably  PIA.

997 - Not following 996 and 997 super close however these are beginning to seem like better value to me atm than 996.  This is probably the car I'd buy if I was buying with my brain as power output enough and prices not silly. Have had a good ride in a 997 and was impressed, these are very nice cars. The settle of this purchase would be the nerd appeal however would certainly be the 911 I'd buy if I was driving it daily.

997 Turbo - Understand S1 turbos are a bit soft (except for cabs, which are meant to be sweet??). S2 improved. S1 with mods probably a option. Feel price differential with 996 T still favour purchase of 996T. Feel 997T maybe more of a  GT than sports car and possibly less raw than 6 turbo. So not actively considering however could still end up here.

997 GT3 - See more value in the 7 GT3s than many of the 6 GT3s at the moment as price differential potentially very close. PASM might allow more comfortable cruising and allow the car to move between nice and evil. Also, feel that NA will soon become something rare and exciting therefore certain appeal in that once we all start driving turbo charged or battery driven cars. Low spoiler clearance could be rectified by 7.2 with raiser however these are beginning to worth more than what I want to spend.

944T/ 928 S4/ Cayman/ Boxster - Seriously consider 44 and 28 before purchasing SC. 44 too close 24 so passed. 28 still tempting however maybe more GT than what I want atm. Sometimes tempted to buy a 928 as a daily ... sort it out and cruise to work. Main reason I don't is that I'm sure that would destroy my enjoyment of the car and the ongoing maintenance (I do about 40k per year), lack of towing and lack of family capacity brings me back down to earth. Feel Boxsters are a bargain, may purchase one out of left field if I decide to sit out of the 911 market for a longer period. Reality buying a 911 over either a boxster or Cayman doesn't really make sense, unless you just want a 911 ... a category in which I'd probably put myself.

I will say that I feel any of the cars mentioned above (and most I haven't mentioned) are great cars and I would be very proud to have them in my garage. We are all very lucky to have the privilege to drive these cars and enjoy speaking Porsche with those others affected by this disease.

[flamingporsche]

I "settled" for the 987 Boxster and have been super impressed with it.  I was super keen on an AC 911 and the extended drive and "warts n all" description of life with an AC you generously gave steered me into the realms of water cooled if only for the comforts they bring - aircon/cruise and a degree more comfort.  Huge thanks for your time & the offer of a blat in the Boxster still stands!

Almost 12 months later and I'm ready to - well, I wouldn't say upgrade.  I want to keep my 987 as well.  But I want a 4-seater so WC911 is on the radar.  My value pick is 996TT tip.  

[turboT]

Don’t settle. Buy a 912. #onebetterthan911 

[MFX]

11 minutes ago, turboT said:

Don’t settle. Buy a 912. #onebetterthan911 

...and remember speed kills! 

[OZ930]

3 hours ago, turboT said:

Don’t settle. Buy a 912. #onebetterthan911 

Are you saying that if you buy a 912 that you will never be settled ? 

[bear924]

19 hours ago, flamingporsche said:

I "settled" for the 987 Boxster and have been super impressed with it.  I was super keen on an AC 911 and the extended drive and "warts n all" description of life with an AC you generously gave steered me into the realms of water cooled if only for the comforts they bring - aircon/cruise and a degree more comfort.  Huge thanks for your time & the offer of a blat in the Boxster still stands!

Almost 12 months later and I'm ready to - well, I wouldn't say upgrade.  I want to keep my 987 as well.  But I want a 4-seater so WC911 is on the radar.  My value pick is 996TT tip.  

After checking out your 987 during Ravensbourne SMT, not sure you lost anything with your driving experience.. and I was certainly jealous of your air conditioner. I'm keen to take your offer up on a drive in your 987, however if you happen to find a 996TT in your garage I'll be there in a flash to drool and beg.