Porsche, under rated?

[Pauly]

Do you feel that Porsche (as a company) are under rated with their cars they build?

 

This came up in a discussion about buying a track modded car vs a standard car that is build for the track. 

 

This is mostly in the jap scene. 

 

We ended up comparing the GTR to the 997.2 turbo s

Obviously the price was mentioned as your paying 4x the amount for the porsche. They thing it's a huge price to pay for the name. 

The way i see it is, Porsche build their cars from racing experience, over 60 years of it. A very successful 60 years. A lot of money goes into R&D in their cars. So you pay the price.

The GTR on the other hand... A nissan.. Racing heritage?  not that great. How did they build the GTR and remain it cheap? All the technology was in front of them... a 997 turbo as a bench mark. and to copy ect. So their R&D would be less. Which means cheaper price tag. 

 

We all know one of the biggest races is the Le Mans 24 hour, where bragging rights are made. the 917K is still holding the record of most laps from 1971 at 397 laps. 

 

If you see the nurburgring lap times, you'll see the 911 turbo and GTR trading places for a bit. The CGT sitting up there from 2002, (what's wrong nissan? it's a 10 year old car) then Porsche rips out their 918 and demolishes the record and probably wont be broken in a while. It seems like they did that for fun and because they can. 

 

People are also talking about how good Ferrari an Lamborghini are. But i don't see them anywhere in any of the 2 major events that how true figures. Porsche is pulling out the same power from an engine with half the cylinders or a smaller displacement. 

 

I feel as they are under rated. 

 

 

[StevepGT3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_GT-R

[cyberpunky]

For me the big difference is not so much in the 2 cars themselves(although many have said the GT-R lacks soul), which are clearly outstanding in performance stakes, but how that DNA flows into the other cars they produce. For Nissan the GT-R is a one off hand made special and little of it's DNA is in any other Nissan, where as all Porsche's share a DNA that includes outstanding performance, handling, and the ability to be daily driven(and thrashed) as well as more importantly for me, having soul. Sure that is hard to quantify what a soul is but as Porsche owners we all get it with our own cars. I doubt there are any GT-R owners who don't love there car as much as we love our Porsche's but I am 100% positive that doesn't translate to all Nissan owners, and that for me is the difference. A cranked up, hand built one off, does not equal, or even come close to what Porsche have been doing for generations of cars.

There is no substitute

peace

Cyberpunky

[BAFE]

I agree with you Bruce

Maybe an over simplification but

Nissan GT-R. When we put our heads down this is what we can do

Porsche - This is what we do every day

[webrest]

The Godzilla Nissan in any of its lifeforms is a great car by all standards and the fact that they can do it for the price is absolutely ridiculous.

As for the racing history of Nissan they haven't been too backward in that department over the years either.

They have always been very competitive in all forms of motor sport for as long as I can remember, saloon, sports and rally competition.

Even Paul Newman the movie star was able to win the US sportscar championship in a Nissan and he also drove Porsche's. But won in a Nissan. Their credentials in this department are impeccable even though they don't have the Le Mans status of Porsche, nobody does.

The fact that Nissan make cars for the masses doesn't exclude them from greatness in fact Porsche is now bending over backwards to attract an audience from the general car market. Panamera's or Cayanne's anyone. Sharing platforms with others in the group is a reality. Now they are bringing out the Macan all of which it is to appeal to the more general market that Nissan has been so successful in.

Porsche are actually not so fabulous when they are up against other specialist sportscar manufacturers, Have a look at some of the race results in that specific form of racing around the world.

Porsche have established a good place for themselves with one make racing worldwide and of course they are impressive when they have no other marque to beat.

I have never owned a Nissan but I have competed against many of them both in circuit racing and rallying and believe me there are plenty of them and usually they figure well up in the results.

Datsun 1600's were the yardstick worldwide for amateur rallying for years as  'Z' cars are ever popular in sports car racing.

So enough of the pompous dribble that Nissan has no breeding and Porsche has.

The Godzilla is a magnificent automobile

 

Dave.

PS. I tell a lie. I did buy a 120y to flip back in the day,  build quality was pretty ordinary but fun and easy to drive.

 

[StevepGT3]

The Godzilla Nissan in any of its lifeforms is a great car by all standards and the fact that they can do it for the price is absolutely ridiculous.

As for the racing history of Nissan they haven't been too backward in that department over the years either.

They have always been very competitive in all forms of motor sport for as long as I can remember, saloon, sports and rally competition.

Even Paul Newman the movie star was able to win the US sportscar championship in a Nissan and he also drove Porsche's. But won in a Nissan. Their credentials in this department are impeccable even though they don't have the Le Mans status of Porsche, nobody does.

The fact that Nissan make cars for the masses doesn't exclude them from greatness in fact Porsche is now bending over backwards to attract an audience from the general car market. Panamera's or Cayanne's anyone. Sharing platforms with others in the group is a reality. Now they are bringing out the Macan all of which it is to appeal to the more general market that Nissan has been so successful in.

Porsche are actually not so fabulous when they are up against other specialist sportscar manufacturers, Have a look at some of the race results in that specific form of racing around the world.

Porsche have established a good place for themselves with one make racing worldwide and of course they are impressive when they have no other marque to beat.

I have never owned a Nissan but I have competed against many of them both in circuit racing and rallying and believe me there are plenty of them and usually they figure well up in the results.

Datsun 1600's were the yardstick worldwide for amateur rallying for years as 'Z' cars are ever popular in sports car racing.

So enough of the pompous dribble that Nissan has no breeding and Porsche has.

The Godzilla is a magnificent automobile

Dave.

PS. I tell a lie. I did buy a 120y to flip back in the day, build quality was pretty ordinary but fun and easy to drive.

Thought you might fire up you nissan lover you.

BTW fellas for a culture that has a reputation for being able to copy anything, the GTR is not much of a copy of a 997.2 turbo as they put the motor at the wrong end of the car.

Like it or not Skylines/ GTR`s have always been bloody fast cars that have always been capable of mixing it with and beating cars costing more than twice the money,I don`t want one because if I did I would have bought one however they need to be shown the respect that they deserve and not dismissed simply because they are not made in Germany.

[9fan]

Stats can be argued anyway you want. What Paul and Bruce are saying is, they love their cars above others and they feel Porsche owners over the decades are the same.

I love enthusiastic owners whatever their machine and the stories that come with them. The older they are (DNA) the more the stories.

Today watched a Lambo Contach drive by - gotta Love it, but would love to have chatted as well.

 

Keep Spreading the Love !

[StevepGT3]

Stats can be argued anyway you want. What Paul and Bruce are saying is, they love their cars above others and they feel Porsche owners over the decades are the same.

I love enthusiastic owners whatever their machine and the stories that come with them. The older they are (DNA) the more the stories.

Today watched a Lambo Contach drive by - gotta Love it, but would love to have chatted as well.

 

Keep Spreading the Love !

I must need a new computer, mine doesn`t interpret or translate the way yours does

[DJM]

Both are great cars albeit very different ways of achieving a similar outcome (lap time)

Price is not related to cost, it's related to supply and demand and what buyers are prepared to pay. As I understand it, Porsche is one of the most profitable car companies in the world. That's because they have created a demand for their product that allows them to command very healthy margins. Anyone in business would prefer to do less and charge more, good for them.

The GTR is am amazing machine and performance for price is incredible. In nissans case it's about creating a halo car to attract people to their mainstream products - they might not make much money off GTR sales but they make a lot more across the range because GTR is attracting more buyers to their brand.

[sleazius]

There is a 356, 911sc, and a mk1 996 gt3 in my immediate family but for the price I couldn't say they were underrated. Lotus are underrated, Porsche are just doing what they do best.

I'm an admirer of all sports cars, to be dismissive of a GTR because of it's pedigree is ridiculous IMO. To say you prefer the drive in a 911 is one thing, to dismiss a result because of a brand is blatant snobbery.

[cyberpunky]

I think a lot of you are missing the point of what I wrote. Give me a GTR and I will love it too. I never dismissed it or put it down. At worst I said some of those who drove it thought it lacked soul. Same has been said about newer Porsches too and probably my car as well as it was noted for being easy to drive fast. Not a fault IMO. Nissan does have a racing heritage, as do many brands but few makers can legitimately compare to Porsche's racing history, and IMO Porsches history translates into all of products to some degree. Quite simple really

[clutch-monkey]

i wouldn't say they were under rated. i mean look what they charge us here for the priviledge, and they still sell

[Pauly]

I do agree what bruce is saying. 

 

Don't get me wrong here though. I'm not saying the GTR is crap or anything. If someone gave me one. I'd be happy to drive it ect. I Feel that people rate the GTR better then the 911 turbo because of what you're paying for. It seems people miss the point of company history and how they came to their product other than using someone else's product for ideas. (i never said the GTR is a 911 copy)

Look at the LFA for example. That has a huge price tag. They loose money on each car. and it's a very good car. Lexus isn't known much for racing but the R&D that went into it was massive. 10 years if i remember exactly. 

 

We know the 951/952 isn't as respected as a 911 would be because of its design ect. but what also shows how porsche use race cars to develop new street cars, is this advert of the 951

 

 

[cyberpunky]

Here you go Pauly

BTW my car is the one on the right

 

A mate of mine used to rally a Datsun 1600 and it was an awesome rally car but it was also seam welded, had a different motor, different gear box, a 240K rear end, modified suspension, and was nothing like what left the factory. It was also a very cheap platform. 50 to 60 years ago ppl were buying Porsche's from the dealer, going racing, winning, and then driving to work on monday, and have been ever since. Not quite the same IMO

[cyberpunky]

comments redacted

[Tit]

I'm with Dave.

 

There's so much amazing variety, history and engineering in the automotive world.  Enjoy it all. Share your passion with all kinds of enthusiasts!

 

Surprise the Carolla club guy by NOT being a badge snob - because there's a smorgasbord of great stuff out there to check out and enjoy!

 

And no, Porsche's are not underrated!

 

(Though a relative of mine who loves an old-school Australian muscle cars likes to try wind me up by calling 911's girls cars....but I know he's joking! )

[MB911]

I love nice cars,and I love to see owners who are passionate about their toys.

 

I've driven an R32 GTR and it was great. It was fast, grippy, and responsive. Had an absolute ball. But it wasn't my thing, I still bought a Porsche because I have always loved them, and like more than a few of you swore as a teenager that one day I would have one.

 

But please don't let your love of Porsches make you a "hater". I went to a few Porsche club events a few years ago and the feeling of not fitting in because I drove a car that "wasn't a real Porsche" was palpable. I walked away in disgust.

 

Then I found the PFA and met a few of the excellent members on the run at the start of the year. Let's promote Porsches in a really positive and friendly way. Maybe then people won't label us all as a bunch of tools.

[Pauly]

I hope people don't take me the wrong way when i say under rated. I'm not bashing other brands ect. I am apart of some small car clubs that are mostly JDM. we all respect eachothers car. 

 

Most would know i'm no "porsche nose up in the air snob" 

 

Edit: went OT 

[KGB]

Pauly, Audi on phone, want car back. 944 peoples too much sensitive.

[Pauly]

Tell Audi they've got the wrong 2 numbers after the 9

[Steiny]

Lamborghini, Ferrari, Lotus or Nissan GT-R are all fine motors but I prefer Porsche.  Don't need to be the fastest, I just love the sweet lines of a 911.

[TINGY]

It's ok Pauly I think we all get what you mean although it is hard to fully explain your emotions in text.

 

I too love automobiles, so many different ones to love, a bit like women really, they are all beautiful in their own way, some have different little ways that we don't like so much, some have lovely genes others don't, we even refer to cars as, her or she.

 

I'm with Eiensteiny, just love those sweet hips.

[Chris-p]

I agree with Dave. Nissan have a long history in racing in all forms going back to 1936. I did a little research after reading his post. And just to be clear there were no stats to manipulate or spin in his comments just historical fact that can be backed up by evidence. See the link below interesting reading. 

 

http://datsunhistory.com/home.html

 

Anyway how lucky are we to live in the circumstances we do to be able to enjoy the cars we have no matter what they are....

 

I love em all.....

 

C

[tazzieman]

 

Porsche ...... are impressive when they have no other marque to beat.

 

 

[tazzieman]

 The older they are (DNA) the more the stories.

Today watched a Lambo Contach drive by - gotta Love it, but would love to have chatted as well.

 

 Countach!