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Hi all new to the forum but wanted some views on buying a ser2 996 GT3 values ,do's and don'ts what to look out for. I've been talking to a guy with a 27k club sport full Porsche service history and a very nice car. Curious to know what people think about collectibility of them, value wise they've seem to be pretty good value for money now bang for buck wise. Also would like to be able to do soft type track days just for fun not full on thrashing the car. Keen to learn what people have experienced thanks in advance Mick.

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Hi Mick,

 

They will be collectible absolutely no doubt in my mind. Any water-cooled 996/997 GT3/2 will be! RS will be on another level again, they already are at a much higher price point actually. 

 

Here are the 996 delivery stats:

 

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I agree with you about the value proposition, to me the 996 GT3 & 996 Turbo are the best value cars out there right now.  

 

I really wanted a long-hood 911 .. but the bang for buck and ease of care/maintenance with the later car was compelling and I knew now is the time to buy. I will buy an old girl when I have more time and money to waste  :lol:

 

In the almost two years I have I owned it I haven't seen the values move much and I've been monitoring the market for at least 12-24 months prior. 

 

So these are my thoughts on transaction values (lets not confuse with asking prices, some owners are deluded) 

 

Fair car - $80-85k = Signs of track work, perhaps some questionable history, track focused mods installed etc

 

Good honest car - $85-95k = Well used, well loved, usual wear & tear for its age, maybe some light track duties low number of owners and good history

 

Excellent example - $95-105K = Presents excellent, low mileage, no track work, un modified from factory spec, perfect provenance

 

Concourse - No idea = I just hope no one was stupid enough to buy one and NOT enjoy it! :rolleyes: BUT  Should you find one, I guess that is an open book! The lowest mileage example I have seen trade in recent years was a speed yellow 6.2 with 6000~ km's on it asking price was in the vicinity of $160k~ well over the rest of the market. 

 

 

Buying advice: 

 

Yes, Everyone will tell you Pre purchase inspection from a specialist! But its more important than ever on one of these... a consumables bill can add up quick on one of these. 

 

You want to make sure it hasn't had the bejesus thrashed off it, get a comp test and a DME over rev report, Type 2 over revs and over are what you need to be looking for. 

 

Full condition report - no signs of collision

 

Full Mechanical report - tyres, brakes and a major service is an expensive affair, get that trifecta off the bat and you'll be about $6k worse off... and thats doing it on the cheap. 

 

 

 

As much as an emotional purchase this car is, you've got to pull your heart out and put it in your top drawer when you go through the purchase process.

 

After that, you will not look back! They are an incredible car!

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^^ great advice.

 

Edgy, what is done at major service and when is the interval for this? My mechanic told me to bring mine back every 12 months or 5,000kms, which ever comes first.

 

Also regarding PPI, comp test can be expensive (but potentially save you a lot) - Porsche dealers dont do them as part of PPI unless there is suspected engine issue (for eg. if there were a lot of Type 2 overrevs).

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This is the schedule for service. (applies to gt3 and all 911)

 

Major is every 4 years. 

 

ScreenShot2015-01-09at24646PM_zpsb4a2b90

Generally our periodic maintenance will eclipse our mileage...

 

 

As I said, you really want to know where the brakes are at too on these things, have em measured in the inspection.. Porsche want $7k to do it front and back or parts alone is about $2-3K ~ depending what, who and where you source from... they take a special Pagid pad in the front as OEM and they are about $900 alone just for the pads.

 

Oh and I must add.. there is less than fair cars that are going to appear on the market, I refuse to put a value on those because at this point, they're not scarce enough to make that kind of compromise just for the sake of getting into one. 

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Interesting thing about Rennlist and North America in general though...the hysteria over coolant fitting failures. They insist that the engine must be dropped and fittings pinned or welded. Yet i've asked a number of fairly knowledgeable and experienced shops here in Aus about it and none of them have ever had one fail on a customer car.

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Interesting thing about Rennlist and North America in general though...the hysteria over coolant fitting failures. They insist that the engine must be dropped and fittings pinned or welded. Yet i've asked a number of fairly knowledgeable and experienced shops here in Aus about it and none of them have ever had one fail on a customer car.

Maybe small sample size?

Aust got 180 cars , ROW ~10, 000

 

Is this registry of failures thread hysteria or fact?

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Ok so brakes super expensive wow

Is this a job easy enough to DIY? Can't see 3-4k in labour being reasonable and apart from calliper rebuilds pads and rotor change should be ABC??? If full pads and rotors are 2-3k new OEM i could live with that at least it's not in the ceramic type price range hahaha

I had seen the over Rev posts before and this cars had an aftermarket chip/tune lifts the redline to 500rpm above standard. So what's that going to mean on the over rev test??? Its also got aftermarket exhaust (along with the standard one)which I quit like especially after driving it and hearing that awesome noise from the rear. Funny you say take out your heart and listen to your head hahahah I've had to slow myself down hence this post for that exact reason so I'll take this handy info on board and proceed with caution.

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Maybe small sample size?

Aust got 180 cars , ROW ~10, 000

Is this registry of failures thread hysteria or fact?

5139 is the number for all 996 GT3 delivered, not sure where 10k comes from?

I do believe it's a game of numbers though, far less cars here!

Spiller, I'll probably tend to the coolant fittings anyhow when I do a clutch and LSD upgrade!

Ok so brakes super expensive wow

Is this a job easy enough to DIY? Can't see 3-4k in labour being reasonable and apart from calliper rebuilds pads and rotor change should be ABC??? If full pads and rotors are 2-3k new OEM i could live with that at least it's not in the ceramic type price range hahaha

I had seen the over Rev posts before and this cars had an aftermarket chip/tune lifts the redline to 500rpm above standard. So what's that going to mean on the over rev test??? Its also got aftermarket exhaust (along with the standard one)which I quit like especially after driving it and hearing that awesome noise from the rear. Funny you say take out your heart and listen to your head hahahah I've had to slow myself down hence this post for that exact reason so I'll take this handy info on board and proceed with caution.

That $7k is Porsche quote.. Yeah it's ridiculous for sure, no complications I'm aware of for DIY brake job... I don't even want to know what they quote to replace PCCB!

As far as I know you should be able to get the report (accurately) as long as its the original ECU... I'm not sure how lifting the rev limiter affects the report... Type 1 = hitting rev limiter, Type 2 = Mechanical over revs.

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5139 is the number for all 996 GT3 delivered, not sure where 10k comes from?

10k is 996+997

 

Mick , the brake job is outlined in that Rennlist link and as it says , being race cars they are designed to be maintained trackside.

Nothing seems too hard ; I wouldn't be daunted at all, but wouldn't skimp on decent parts.

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Id be using performance friction pads and rotors personally. Excellent longevity and very good bang for buck.

Re: coolant fittings, I guess sample size is the key. And they have obviously had a few cases over there but it's clearly not a matter of it affecting every single car?

As for overrevs edgy, I think OP is trying to say if the rev limit is raised, then essentially hitting the new (higher) limit will register type 2? In reality we don't know the specific RPM cut off points for the two ranges as Porsche never disclosed them for the 996 AFAIK. Unlike the 997 which has the six ranges and RPM specified for each range. Mine has a chip/tune and 0 type 2 over revs FWIW but I'm not sure if the rev limit has been lifted.

Also I had to BEG Porsche Centre to give me a copy of the DME overrevs, they said they don't usually give it out as part of the PPI. Unsure if this is common practice for Porsche Centres

Edgy, does the motor have to be dropped to do a clutch?

Mick, it sounds like an awesome car from what you've described!

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People say the Type 2s are NBD , but I'd be concerned at how much over the limit (8250?) it went ,as much as how often.

Given these are not garage queens , I'd do my homework for sure, 

Are Porsche dealers the only ones who can hack the OBD? I mean the computers are quite old now - and we have some clever fellows.

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All GT3 are special. 

 

Note for accuracy: Between 1999 and 2000. 1858 Mk1 GT3s were handbuilt at the Weissach Motorsport factory. Only 308 being right-hand drive [90 delivered to Aus]

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10k is 996+997

Mick , the brake job is outlined in that Rennlist link and as it says , being race cars they are designed to be maintained trackside.

Nothing seems too hard ; I wouldn't be daunted at all, but wouldn't skimp on decent parts.

Ah ok 997 inc, that makes sense. It seems to affect 997 all the same the coolant pipe issue, I do wonder if it's due to the numbers AND the extreme climate cycles they get in some parts of the US compared to here?

Agree, these cars are designed with fast maintenance and repairs in mind.

Id be using performance friction pads and rotors personally. Excellent longevity and very good bang for buck.

Re: coolant fittings, I guess sample size is the key. And they have obviously had a few cases over there but it's clearly not a matter of it affecting every single car?

As for overrevs edgy, I think OP is trying to say if the rev limit is raised, then essentially hitting the new (higher) limit will register type 2? In reality we don't know the specific RPM cut off points for the two ranges as Porsche never disclosed them for the 996 AFAIK. Unlike the 997 which has the six ranges and RPM specified for each range. Mine has a chip/tune and 0 type 2 over revs FWIW but I'm not sure if the rev limit has been lifted.

Also I had to BEG Porsche Centre to give me a copy of the DME overrevs, they said they don't usually give it out as part of the PPI. Unsure if this is common practice for Porsche Centres

Edgy, does the motor have to be dropped to do a clutch?

Mick, it sounds like an awesome car from what you've described!

Definitely spend the $$ for the good parts.. There are plenty of brake options, we're not stuck with just OE!

I'm not sure how that tune effects the over rev counts, but I believe the type 1 threshold is 8200-8250RPM...

As I understand it it is possible to get:

Total operating hours

Events at certain over rev

Number of ignitions at event

3 ignitions to a revolution, 8200 RPM = 137~ revs per second, so therefore 411~ ignitions

Is equal to a second at over rev (8200)

You are able to tell how long since the last event too.

People say the Type 2s are NBD , but I'd be concerned at how much over the limit (7250?) it went ,as much as how often.

Given these are not garage queens , I'd do my homework for sure,

Are Porsche dealers the only ones who can hack the OBD? I mean the computers are quite old now - and we have some clever fellows.

You are right, they are on 996! 997 different...

I'm sure an Indy worth his salt can do the read too

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All GT3 are special. 

 

Note for accuracy: Between 1999 and 2000. 1858 Mk1 GT3s were handbuilt at the Weissach Motorsport factory. Only 308 being right-hand drive [90 delivered to Aus]

Some value this.... Mainly in the UK it seems? Funny enough... I don't see much difference in 6.1 & 6.2 prices, honest, clean examples seem to win the day! Regardless of series 1/2, CS/Touring. options etc

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On 22 January 2015 at 12:21 PM, edgy said:

Some value this.... Mainly in the UK it seems? Funny enough... I don't see much difference in 6.1 & 6.2 prices, honest, clean examples seem to win the day! Regardless of series 1/2, CS/Touring. options etc

 

Hi edgy, like I said all GT3s are special and generally agree with your views; except in my thinking the 996 GT3 1 is a little more special:

Difference: Mk1 GT3 996 Vs. Mk2,

1.      1st car/build of the GT3 generation, (1st to use Metzger engine, lightweight motorsport components including titanium connecting rods and a plasma nitride hardened crankshaft with eight main bearings, 993 GT2 gearbox etc),

2.      Only GT3, hand built at the Weissach Motorsport factory.

3.      Built to low/limited numbers for FIA racing certification (not built to customer orders),

4.      Never intended or sold in US, not softened for US federal certification, (ride height, no cup holders)         

With regard to pricing, the Aus market totally under value all 996 GT3s, in the UK good 996 GT3 regularly sell for $50 to 60K pounds, or at >70% of their original Recommended Retail Price of $75K. On this basis; 70% of original RRP (Aus GT3 _ $225K) should see our cars valued at $157,500? (maybe in the future ?) 

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I think long term is where that will certainly come into play for collectors... but I just don't see anyone paying more now for Mk1's because of it....don't get me wrong, I totally hear you on that! But I'm no collector and I'm sure most current owners aren't...  I fear the day that these things become too valuable to go out and enjoy a drive without having an anxiety attack! :lol:  Kind of like 964/993 RS owners. 

 

The UK seems to be on top of this one... and lets hope they don't catch on and start poaching cars from our shores! 

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Nice work Gents, enjoying this thread.  :)

 

Understandably, the purchase price of MK 1 & 2 GT3's is very attractive but its worthwhile taking note of the associated labour/parts and running costs when factored into the overall equation. 

 

I still think they are good value, personally I'd be hard pressed to knock back A 997 GT3 if they fall under the 150k mark as this maybe something we will see in the next 12/24 months...................fingers crossed!  ;)

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Sorry can't work out the abbreviation " people say the type 2's are NBD" ?????

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Nice work Gents, enjoying this thread.  :)

 

Understandably, the purchase price of MK 1 & 2 GT3's is very attractive but its worthwhile taking note of the associated labour/parts and running costs when factored into the overall equation. 

 

I still think they are good value, personally I'd be hard pressed to knock back A 997 GT3 if they fall under the 150k mark as this maybe something we will see in the next 12/24 months...................fingers crossed!  ;)

The 997 GT3s were there briefly and then headed north again! Very frustrating.

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This info may help , depends what grabs you ,

 

 

Torque

 

996 tt        996 GT3      996 tt s 

 

560nm      370 nm        620 nm

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I just did brakes on 996tt and wasn't anything special just like doing normal brakes same methods apply.

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Id say some 997s have already sold for sub 150K.

I also agree that with only 181 996 GT3s ever delivered to Australia, they will definitely appreciate in the future once the last of the air cooled stuff becomes unobtainable for most. I also agree that options, kms and whether it's CS or touring will become less important as the cars age. People will just want to get their hands on any 996 GT3. Sure the super low km cars will fetch higher prices but they'd be rare as tits on a bull and not really an accurate representation of the market (i.e. most will be well used!). I don't think MK1 will ever be worth more than MK2 - there will always be a parity there and happy to eat my words on this if it ever happens

Edgy spot on with that DME info too.

Intetesting note: when I purchased my car a little over 2 weeks ago there were 17 996/997 GT3s on carsales, now there are only 8. I haven't seen the numbers change that quickly in the 3 years I've been following the market.

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