The bubble inflates further - stunning results at Sotherby's

[SimonN]

Sotherby's held their big auction in London this morning (Oz time) and most Porsches sold for well over their estimates. Some of the estimates look weak, but even still, the results were stunning. All prices in GBP and exclude fees, which are 25% for the first £100k and 20% for the rest up to £1.8m and then 12%.

1993 911 Carrera RS 3.8 lhd   est. £400-500k  Sold for £640k plus fees making £773k

1993 911 Turbo S Lightweight lhd  est. £210-250k  sold for £870k plus fees making £1.049m 

1995 911 GT2  lhd  est. £750-850k  sold for £1.65 plus fees making £1.96m (a new record)  (this makes me truly sick as I turned down an rhd for £105k a year before coming to Oz)

1995 911 Carrera RS Clubsport lhd est. £220-260k sold for £412k including fees

These were all collector grade cars and went to overseas collectors, so will end up in nice, warn, air conditioned garages going nowhere!

Those were the stand outs. A  Carrera GT stalled at £550k and didn't sell. As reported elsewhere, an average 964RS sold for £150 plus fees, making £185k, which on reflection is actually better than I thought for the car.

The 73 RS mentioned in the other thread with a colour change fetched £410k plus fees making £497k. A rather dodgy 2.7 RS, non matching numbers, repalcement engine and gearbox and the shell replaced (!!) fetched £200k plus fees.

Those are the cars my friends who were there are talking about online. There were a couple of other Porsches, but I don't have the results for them or anything else at the auction.

So it seems like collectors are still paying up big for top quality cars. Even the lesser cars seemed to achieve decent prices. So has the bubble burst. Is this auction meaningless in the grand scheme of things? For me, the real stand out was the Carrera GT not selling. Maybe people are beginning to see sense about "modern" Porsches. Shame there were no GT3 variants there, but I think I would be cautious of them based on this very small bit of evidence.

 

 

 

 

 

[911sies]

I too am surprised at the Carrera GT not selling, It might be modern in that it's watercooled, but compared to its replacement (918) it's a very analogue car with an amazingly unique engine (for a Porsche). 

I don't really know what to say about the GT2. It would be nice to see if or how many times that car has changed hands. Cars bringing this kind of money are generally bought to sell for profit not far down the track. So someone sees profit in a GBP 1.9m 911?!.

The thought of a brigade of 993s sitting in climate controlled garages gives me the sads.

 

[tazzieman]

I too am surprised at the Carrera GT not selling,

I dunno about that! It was a collector car from the outset , unlike the '73 RS, many of which got used.

What would it cost to recommission a collector GT for road use? 50k?

500,000 is chump change to a billionaire who likely has many other top end brands in his pool room. Divide the price by 1000 to compare to mere millionaires 

 

[Diamond911]

That GT2 is isane, but insane prices as well.   £1.96m is about $3.4M AUD.

Beautiful car

 

[tazzieman]

The way I see it is that most collectors don't have the skills to drive these cars to anywhere near their potential ; probably best they end up saved in a museum ,  as a wrecked Carrera GT or GT2 is sort of unrepairable - and would you want a repaired one?

Let's admit they are trophy cars, not real drivers.

[Spannerhead]

The way I see it is that most collectors don't have the skills to drive these cars to anywhere near their potential ; probably best they end up saved in a museum ,  as a wrecked Carrera GT or GT2 is sort of unrepairable - and would you want a repaired one?

Let's admit they are trophy cars, not real drivers.

The trouble today is even if you could drive one, where ? Its hard enough trying to enjoy our cars let alone a GT2 ect , so track time only ! Targa Tassi, very limiting . Bring on unlimited roads like German autobahn I say.

[tazzieman]

The trouble today is even if you could drive one, where ? Its hard enough trying to enjoy our cars let alone a GT2 ect , so track time only ! Targa Tassi, very limiting . Bring on unlimited roads like German autobahn I say.

Exactly. Though driving high speed on the autobahn never appealed to me. Not really engaging,  unlike twisty roads ; as long as the car is set up for handling it doesn't matter if it's 100 or 1000hp! Unless you are actually racing. In which case you need to be an actual real world expert to handle a GT2 or Carrera GT.
 

[LeeM]

  Thats nuts

[edgy]

Truly crazy money! 

I recently watched an interesting documentary on the plane about foreigns coming to the UK to do their laundry.

It was about real estate agents in London and their willingness to make sales to individuals (well off shore companies) with funds from questionable sources.

There was evidently a long standing culture of doing business with foreigners that were washing their dirty money through London realestate, thus blowing up the market pricing in the process... I wonder if this is similar for a lot of these big $$ collector car sales we read about? I guess we'll never quite know!  

 

[Spannerhead]

Exactly. Though driving high speed on the autobahn never appealed to me. Not really engaging,  unlike twisty roads ; as long as the car is set up for handling it doesn't matter if it's 100 or 1000hp! Unless you are actually racing. In which case you need to be an actual real world expert to handle a GT2 or Carrera GT.
 

Yes I agree , I meant to add, roads with big long sweeping bends . We have some great twisty roads here but to much big brother watching . I was recently in French country side , they certainly enjoy there roads more then we can.

[SimonN]

Te 993 RS is a truly fantastic car to drive. I have driven one both on track and road and they are nowhere near as difficult as some would think they are and certainly no more difficult than any other car of the same power. IMO, they are the best handling car I have ever driven. That doesn't mean they are faster round a track (although very few cars are quicker), it's just they are so well balanced and speak to you like nothing else. One of the greatest privileges and highlight of many years of driving great cars.

I showed this to my wife and her reaction - why didn't I push her harder when i could have bought one so cheap 10 years ago! I reminded her that she probably used the D word at the time

[DJM]

Exactly. Though driving high speed on the autobahn never appealed to me. Not really engaging,  unlike twisty roads ; as long as the car is set up for handling it doesn't matter if it's 100 or 1000hp! Unless you are actually racing. In which case you need to be an actual real world expert to handle a GT2 or Carrera GT.
 

you blokes need to come for an SMT ride. Blasting up and then back down Lake Mountain chasing SteveP's 997GT3 was awesome.  Or JimTT's 996TT through Reefton Spur in the wet.  He asked if my SC/TC light was winking the whole way like his.   Ummm, don't have those, it was a lively ride.  

Im no Fangio but keep it sensible on the straights and have some fun in the tighter sections.  Monstrous acceleration, exhaust barking off the cliffs, brakes squealing in torture, heel and toe down changes.  These cars can absolutely be enjoyed on the road.  Yeah you'll never see 315 km/h here and impossible to really exploit fully on the road but you can have some fun trying.  

That blue 993 is lovely.  Buy that for $3.2M to polish and admire and buy this for $250k to drive: 

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-2002/SSE-AD-4195631

 

[tazzieman]

you blokes need to come for an SMT ride.

No worries! You pay the airfare and chuck me the keys to the GT2. How hard can they be to drive at the limit 

[michel]

The 993 RS is a truly fantastic car to drive. I have driven one both on track and road and they are nowhere near as difficult as some would think they are and certainly no more difficult than any other car of the same power. IMO, they are the best handling car I have ever driven. That doesn't mean they made me faster round a track (although very few cars are quicker), it's just they are so well balanced and speak to you like nothing else. One of the greatest privileges and highlight of many years of driving great cars.

I showed this to my wife and her reaction - why didn't I push her harder when i could have bought one so cheap 10 years ago! I reminded her that she probably used the D word at the time

just a little edit ?

[XLR8]

as long as the car is set up for handling it doesn't matter if it's 100 or 1000hp! 

You've explained perfectly why some of us are happy with a 924.

You've explained perfectly why some of us are happy with a 924.

For the moment ...

[Pork Chops]

you blokes need to come for an SMT ride. Blasting up and then back down Lake Mountain chasing SteveP's 997GT3 was awesome.  Or JimTT's 996TT through Reefton Spur in the wet.  He asked if my SC/TC light was winking the whole way like his.   Ummm, don't have those, it was a lively ride.  

Im no Fangio but keep it sensible on the straights and have some fun in the tighter sections.  Monstrous acceleration, exhaust barking off the cliffs, brakes squealing in torture, heel and toe down changes.  These cars can absolutely be enjoyed on the road.  Yeah you'll never see 315 km/h here and impossible to really exploit fully on the road but you can have some fun trying.  

 

Correct.  There are so many opportunities to give your car a good fang.  Yes there is risk, but you can manage it to acceptable levels.

[TrevMcRev]

you blokes need to come for an SMT ride. Blasting up and then back down Lake Mountain chasing SteveP's 997GT3 was awesome.  Or JimTT's 996TT through Reefton Spur in the wet.  He asked if my SC/TC light was winking the whole way like his.   Ummm, don't have those, it was a lively ride.  

Im no Fangio but keep it sensible on the straights and have some fun in the tighter sections.  Monstrous acceleration, exhaust barking off the cliffs, brakes squealing in torture, heel and toe down changes.  These cars can absolutely be enjoyed on the road.  Yeah you'll never see 315 km/h here and impossible to really exploit fully on the road but you can have some fun trying.  

That blue 993 is lovely.  Buy that for $3.2M to polish and admire and buy this for $250k to drive: 

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-2002/SSE-AD-4195631

 

I am 100% IN for co-pilot duties next SMT you can make it to Doug.

[hugh]

Shame there were no GT3 variants there, but I think I would be cautious of them based on this very small bit of evidence.

So because a Carrera GT got passed in newer Porsche's would seem undesirable? Your mind works in mysterious ways Simon...................

[symsy]

And how about the Aston Sale!!!

[SimonN]

So because a Carrera GT got passed in newer Porsche's would seem undesirable? Your mind works in mysterious ways Simon...................

Where did I say undesirable? There is a vast difference between undesirability and caution about not over paying as investor interest shifts. I guess that without all the background I was getting from the auction, the comment does look a bit "left field". The view of one professional at the auction (who was feeding me prices live on social media) was that the collectors/investors who had pushed up the price of water cooled specials seemed to have shifted their focus. That was the reason why some thought the Carrera GT didn't sell.

So do you really think there is room for more price rises in the GT3 variant market?

[hugh]

Where did I say undesirable? There is a vast difference between undesirability and caution about not over paying as investor interest shifts. 

So do you really think there is room for more price rises in the GT3 variant market?

Don't try to dodge it, re-read what I've quoted you on and it's pretty clear what you were implying. I honestly don't know (nor care) about where GT3 values are going, I just thought it was quite a sweeping statement that deserved questioning. 

The Carrera GT is very much an acquired taste and comparing it to a GT3 (or any GT3 for that matter) is a long bow..................I just don't get the relevance nor see the comparison but maybe that's just me.

(apologies if I'm off topic, just the way things go sometimes ) 

[michel]

I reckon some enterprising sod ( hey Symsy) should run a book ,  say 60% of earnings go to collective PFA good karma make a wish or similar enterprise  ??? 

 

[SimonN]

Hugh

I expressed a personal view. I clearly stated it was a personal view. I respect your right to have your view on the market. Does it really matter how each of us reached that view? If I came to a conclusion from reading tea leaves, does it matter so long as I say how I reached the conclusion. Different views is what creates a market. So, as i said, I would be cautious of the high end water cooled market, but I guess that as it isn't a market i would go for, it doesn't matter anyway

[MezgerMan]

I recently watched an interesting documentary on the plane about foreigns coming to the UK to do their laundry.

It was about real estate agents in London and their willingness to make sales to individuals (well off shore companies) with funds from questionable sources.

There was evidently a long standing culture of doing business with foreigners that were washing their dirty money through London realestate, thus blowing up the market pricing in the process... I wonder if this is similar for a lot of these big $$ collector car sales we read about? I guess we'll never quite know!  

 

@edgy, I saw the same documentary on Qantas. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if collectible cars were the new London properties for some of the dubiously cashed-up.

[symsy]

Talking of Rags .. I made enough cash washing rags …in sydney in the 90's  to buy a 3.2… dont knock it ..