Buyers advice wanted for 1984 911 Carerra

[woodsy144]

Hello,

I am looking at the possibility of buying a 1984 Carrera that has some body damage. I am quite mechanically minded and plan to do the mechanical stuff myself, while getting a professional to do the body. Currently the vehicle has about 270k on the clock. Before I invest to much time and potentially a lot of money, can I please get some advice on what to look for, what to expect and what to be aware of?

Any information would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks

Tim

[OBRUT]

Take lots of pictures and take them to a body shop that has air cooled Porsche experience for a cost estimate.  In my experience, body work is slow, expensive and often leads to "while you're in there's".  Also, don't forget to ask the shop WHEN they could do the work - most of the well known shops are booked in advance for months/years/don't want new work.

Also, 84's are galvanized - but the galvanising can be compromised by damage = rust.

Finally, if the car has had a decent hit then suspension and other items could be damaged also.

[Dreamr]

It is important to learn this one piece of advice early ......

Anything to do with a Porsche is EXPENSIVE! .....parts are rarer and harder to come by and labour often incurs the dreaded "Porsche tax"

Initial cost of the car will also play a factor, as will the model, place of delivery and quality of work you want (eg. Simple spray job or car show quality)

Not much help I know, but just things to bear in mind.

Porsche ownership is a VERY slippery slope!

[Mike D'Silva]

yes, this shit is stupid expensive.

 

When rebuilding my motor, a set of genuine porsche main bearings was about $1k...(non gen are about $400 but not recommended). I've never bought bearings before.. when the guys here at Toyota heard, they nearly fell over.

You also will need lots of stupid finicky tools to do your mechanical work.. my tool set has doubled with weird stuff like a 36mm wrench for the oil line.. I mean, I didn't even know they made a wrench that big! Shallow sockets, wobble sockets, giant long 8mm allen tools.. blah blah blah....

Yes, I am grumpy about it!

 

Hello,

I am looking at the possibility of buying a 1984 Carrera that has some body damage. I am quite mechanically minded and plan to do the mechanical stuff myself, while getting a professional to do the body. Currently the vehicle has about 270k on the clock. Before I invest to much time and potentially a lot of money, can I please get some advice on what to look for, what to expect and what to be aware of?

Any information would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks

Tim

How much damage?

Has the motor got any documentation for recent work?

rebuild? top end?

broken head studs! (you need a cool tool to get those out too!)

 

[SimonN]

If you have found a car with damage, requiring both body and mechanical work, and the cost of that work and the car is less than you could buy a decent, non damaged car for, then you really have found a UNICORN!

As others have said, the bodywork will swallow more than you think and probably more than would be quoted for based on pictures. It is only once a body shop starts to strip a car down that you really know what you are in for. Depending on damage, I would also be nervous without checking it doesn't need straightening on a jig.

Mechanically, a car of that mileage is probably due a top end rebuild at the least. You will find lots of threads on here or Pelican or rennlist about engine work, to give you some idea of what you are letting yourself in for. it is certainly doable yourself, but make sure you understand what you are letting yourself in for parts wise. The other thing to consider is that the gearbox is likely to be tired and if a 915 gearbox is tired, it is a world of hurt to drive. Again, it can be rebuilt and when they have been, they are fantastic. If either or both of these items have been rebuilt in the past, that is worth a lot, because if they have not, the safest thing is to assume that they need it.

The rest of the mechanical stuff is more straight forward. Even so, a car of that age probably is due a suspension refresh, which is not a bad DIY project and can be, by Porsche standards, relatively affordable. 

Any questions so far?

[LeeM]

Or buy a Cayman

  As mentioned, it can be an expensive and slippery slope! Be careful

[SimonN]

He won't regret buying the right 3.2. The only question is whether this is the right one.

[tomo]

270 k and body damage,You would have to get it cheeeeap to make worthwhile even then, Maybe not somuch Good luck

[smule]

Is this the car you're talking about ?http://www.manheim.com.au/damaged-vehicles/4861490/1983-porsche-911-carrera-coupé?referringPage=SearchResults

You might find the damage is worse than what it is once you strip it down and might need to go on a jig/car aligner ... In saying all that don't be surprised if it still makes 50k in its present condition 

 

[michel]

.. Was talking to another would be prospector on Tuesday about it... he had a fanciful idea it could also be bought for less than 20k.

 

[woodsy144]

Yeh that is the car.

I spoke to the auction house and they said a estimate of 20~30k..... I initially scoffed at that cause that is way under even my initial estimates. I think all they have done is made an estimate off the undervalued redbook pricing. I was thinking around 40k would be around the mark.

I have confirmed the vehicle is AU delivered and the wheels are the optioned forged. I also have an engine number (63E01534) and just trying to confirm whether or not it is matching.

I spoke to the guy in the yard and he said the engine runs fine (what experience he has, who knows) but the vehicle 'wont find a gear' therefore, unmovable.

So worst case, gearbox change over / rebuild & clutch, best case linkages and everything in-between.

Finding a replacement wheel maybe an issue, sure I can get ones from Pelican, but not matching (but enough to get it going). As for looking at the car, I am from Melbourne so I kinda have to do all my sums based off worst case information before I commit to flying up to inspect it.

My thinking is, based off the limited information I have

Body repair - 10~20k

Wheel 1.5~2k

Gearbox 0.5 ~ 5k depending

Rear suspension depending on damage ~2.5k

Interior clean up ~3k

Is there anything I am missing or should be aware of. Cause unfortunately even looking at the car up close is a large time and cost expense

Thanks

[LeeM]

 911. 3.2. Auction. Cashed up bidders. $40k min

[smule]

The last Aussie car to go through made 47500 on the hammer earlier this year. It was red and similar 231hp Aussie car.. That car had a big hit with more Ks showing on the odo. There will be a lot of shops and even potentially dealers who will pump the price to buy it based on not factoring their own labour cost of repair ( think parramatta rd) 

in today's market you could break the car down and easily bank 35k in parts value.. If it makes 50 on the day plus your estimate of repair does it still make it viable? .. From a resale point I would say no.. If you wanted to keep it long term maybe. 

Reality of today's market is asking price and selling price are miles apart...

[michel]

No so sure Lee - there's still enough cars trading at close to or, on the knocker . I know your wired into the dark Porsche net  ? ( note not sarcasm) and know Car sales ain't that  good a barometer 

sure all cars aren't been bid as hard on, but that Albury car and the recent Canberra car were attracting over and above.

Be interesting to see where budding on the 3.2 stops - as for the OP add a 20% contingency on top of a number for 'while I'm there '

but if you're handy could be a solid 'affordable' car project 

Or by a Tarmac prepped mgbgt

[Coastr]

What? A 911 with quarter panel damage?  How could that have happened !! 

Are you sure it is a 3.2?  Looks like it but built oct 83 and no engine pic.  Probably is but worth double checking.

wheels are around but you might end up having to buy two to get matching, and you'll probably want to spend $$$ for Refurb.  I think you're right to budget susp rebuild, that was a hard hit. 

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Diamond911]

Are you sure it is a 3.2?  Looks like it but built oct 83 and no engine pic.  Probably is but worth double checking.

Fog lights say 3.2, VIN says 3.2 and engine number starts with 63Exxxxx which is consistent with a MY84 Carrera 3.2, but always best to do your due diligence and check.

[woodsy144]

Fog lights say 3.2, VIN says 3.2 and engine number starts with 63Exxxxx which is consistent with a MY84 Carrera 3.2, but always best to do your due diligence and check.

I confirmed it with Porsche AU, it is a legit 3.2.

Basically, a lot of European manufactures call a model a specific year (say 1984), but construction of that model starts towards the end of the previous year. It is a practice that is still done today (I have seen it many times at my work).

I can be confusing and very annoying, ie buying a 2016 'model' but been built in 2015.

[Coastr]

Agreed on above - early build cars for following MY built after summer break and retooling.

Does the auction house give you the engine num as what they have visually inspected? Still be good to have a photo - you'd think they would include one to get an idea of things like missing pieces like AC compressors etc.

[LeeM]

  I certainly hope you or someone else gets a bargain at $20k or so

[SimonN]

Looking at the pictures, at very least it should be put on a jig to check whether the smash has moved anything it shouldn't. I would be surprised if it was straight. As mentioned above, a car like this is attractive to a certain type of auto trader who will cut corners and make it look fine, but who won't do the job properly. It won't go on a jig, it won't have any inner panels replaced but instead straightened enough and s/h parts will be used where possible. The right (or should that be wrong) people would spend something like under $5000, take no more than 2 weeks on it and be very happy to turn, say $20k profit. Because of where, how and to who they sell their cars, I can see tthem selling it for $80k to some poor punter who sees a shiny Porsche at a cheaper than normal price. That means they can afford to pay $50-55k and make 'loadsa money!"

It's hard to compete against that if yo want to do it properly. I think the budget outlined above is reasonable, although I would expect the top end of each estimate and hope to be surprised. For instance, with the gearbox, you probably wouldn't only replace the broken bits bit do a proper recon. My feeling is that you should be prepared to throw around $30k at it, and you still don't really know about the engine. You might get lucky that somebody has done some work, like the top end, or you could be looking at spending another great chunk of money. I am not sure i would consider the guy in the yard as a reliable leak down test! 

I am sure for the right price it is worth the risks involved of not knowing exactly what you are dealing with, but the question is what that right price is. I expect it is less than some dodgy car dealer is willing to pay - it's almost a case that if they are bidding, you certainly don't want to pay more than  them!

[vl gra]

Doesn't look that bad at all. The main thing I would make sure of is that it is not listed under a repairable write off. It states that it is not registered but pays to check. I think your estimate on the suspension is very light on. Good luck.

[Arnage]

Go check out some SC's & other 3.2s that are actually registered, have some history, can speak to the owner, possibly talk with the workshop that has looked after the car. Even in the unlikely even that the purchase price is as low as $20k this car has the potential to feast on your cash not to mention your time & be full of unwanted surprises.

There is a UK delivered 1989 Carrera on Carsales $69k. I definitely look into a car like this rather than a shunted car at an auction.

Still, it will be interesting to see what happens at auction.

[Steve88]

It is important to learn this one piece of advice early ......

Anything to do with a Porsche is EXPENSIVE! .....parts are rarer and harder to come by and labour often incurs the dreaded "Porsche tax"

Initial cost of the car will also play a factor, as will the model, place of delivery and quality of work you want (eg. Simple spray job or car show quality)

Not much help I know, but just things to bear in mind.

Porsche ownership is a VERY slippery slope!

Totally agree with this advice. On near completion to my final invoice. Things add up so quick. Research research research. 

[JB]

Agree with Simon, from experience that will need a jig, movement in the passenger door and looks like whole rear qtr has moved slightly. Looks like a hard sideways slap. Rear suspension is bent potentially cracked in the main structural mounts. Will have damaged mounts and potentially pull the gearbox etc out of alignment, hence why it won't move. Only takes a few mm of shift to cause a world of hurt.

if you can get it for the right price I'd have a crack however budget worst case senerio on everything, then it's only upside from there.

[TINGY]

I agree with the people above, unless you have contacts in the repair business or can do most work yourself stick to your price then walk away if it goes sbove what you are prepared to pay.

IMO which is worth nothing, this car is a potential money pit, why do you think it is where it is.