911 3.2 freshen up

[Buchanan Automotive]

We were given the privileged opportunity to reseal and freshen up a customers 1985 911 3.2 in the last few months. The main reasons for the tear down was due to oil leaks and some gearbox issues with 2nd through to 4th. While apart it gave us a chance to do a little spring cleaning, bringing the original tinware back to life, getting rid of the stains on the aluminium manifolds and associated sand castings, long with plating every nut, bolt and clamp we could get our hands onto, Also going to town on the exhaust bringing the quality up to the rest of the freshen up. When apart there was very little to do inside as we have run this oil on a 20w50 near birth, Internally there was no wear of the rockers and rocker shafts, zero wear of the cam shaft lobes, no wear of the aluminium intermediate shaft gear and timing chain sprockets. We did however install new chains, guides, big end bearings and chain tensioners. The gearbox had some new dogs,syncs and sliders installed 1st-4th. Here are some pictures of the progress so far.

Regards

Sean

 

 

 

[ANF]

Watched it on FB, looks great!

[Mike D'Silva]

Brilliant! 

Not bad for a days work ay! 

[SimonN]

Love the work!

One really dumb question. What is the pulley/pump? to the left of the main fan. Obviously, I know the one on the right is a/c but I have noticed that a very few cars have the left hand one. My guess would be power assisted steering, but I can find no parts listing. Is it that (after market?) or am I well off the mark?

[Peter M]

Simon

it's the air injection pump that only the '85 MY came with.  Supplies air to the exhaust ports to reduce hydrocarbon emissions.  Takes little power to run so engine is still rated at 231hp

Nice work BTW Sean

[Buchanan Automotive]

That's the factory fitted air-pump that was fitted to the 1985 3.2 911 ( Leaded Australian version ), its similar to the air-pump that was fitted to the 3.3 Turbo in the same era , except the 3.3 turbo/s air pump was at the other end of the engine( hidden from view) and was driven by a small toothed belt that was driven by one of the cams

The air-pump was quite a simple way to get these leaded cars ( no cat ) to pass emission regs in the mid 1980's

A similar air-pump was also fitted to all Australian delivered 928 models as well , but not the 944 series as the 944 series passed the reg's without the need for one

[MFX]

Good thing it has been tidied up and refitted  

[Diamond911]

Great job and thanks for sharing. What treatment did you give the exhaust to bring it up to standard as it looked pretty ratty to start with?

[Dreamr]

Just as a matter of interest about the finished product, is that the way this engine would have left the factory, or have all of the pretty bits been added for effect?

Looks absolutely beautiful BTW ..... anyone would be proud to have that under their "bonnet" ....

[911sies]

Art. Very nice job. The lack of wear is impressive. How many kays has the engine done?

[Skidmarks]

Beautiful work.  Congratulations to you and the owner for giving you the opportunity. 

[Airhead]

Noice.

[scashin]

Wow impressive!

[Buchanan Automotive]

Thats how they were new , all the bright metal work , meaning all the mild steel parts, brackets, pipes , nuts , bolts , washers  etc (that were not painted ) that were on Porsche's , Merc's & BMW's  etc in the 1960's , 1970's 1980's & into the early 1990's  were finished in  "Yellow Chromate "( Hexavalent Chromate ) , that process is no longer done as its illegal ( the process) because its Toxic , so the closest we can get done is yellow / gold zinc plating , looks just the same 

For the last 20 or so years , all we get on new Porsche cars is the dull " Grey " zinc finish ( looks dreadful ) on nuts & bolts & metal brackets 

The original ( 31 year old ) exhaust system was interesting , Sean spent hours on the separate components , bead blasting with some interesting mediums in our own bead blasting tank and hand polishing the rear muffler with special pneumatic tools / pads & hand finishing 

Regards

Bruce Buchanan

Buchanan Automotive

[Buchanan Automotive]

The Kms on this engine is near 200,000 & with all its life in City/ suburban driving ( when used in the last 31 years ) the hours of operation ( time spent each trip at traffic lights / traffic , engine idling & odometer not moving ) ,the same car that spent the same hours of operation , but moving on country roads( not stationary) would show something like 250,000 - 300,000kms , hence why city / Sydney / Melbourne  driving is " Extreme Driving conditions "

Whats interesting with this engine is that its had yearly servicing all its life with a High Oil Film strength engine oil ( a last century 20w-50 engine oil )  for a deep last century engine design & at no stage did this engine receive a single drop of a so called Synthetic or a so called Fully Synthetic 

There was no rocker wear or rocker shaft wear 
There was no timing chain sprocket wear
There was no intermediate gear wear ( alloy gear )
There was no cam lobe wear ( cams were like new )
There was no piston or cylinder wear ( Mahle Pistons & Cylinders ) & no small end bearing wear
There was no crank journal wear

-----------------------

Now, have we dismantled the same engines , meaning other 3.2 or 3.0 or 3.3 T engines that a human had decided 20w-50 is old school / lets use this new so called synthetic  stuff  ( from around the late 1990's > )  on a so called synthetic engine oil that also had a low / lower levels of ZDDP & these so called synthetics were always 5w-40  10w-40 viscosities ( and some 15w-50's )  & the engine internal wear was just dreadful after about 40,000kms - 80,000kms later ?

Hell Yes 

And yet the answer was always in the owners manuals printed by Porsche in last century Porsche's , from minus 15 deg cel to unlimited high ambient temps = 20w-50 &  up to about 1981 or so & from around 1982 to the turn of the century it read from minus 10deg cel to unlimited high ambient temps = 20w-50 

----------------------

On a side note , this December will mark my 40th year of working on Porsche cars , 5 -  6 days a week , its been interesting to see what destruction low viscosity/ low oil film strength" so called "synthetic engine oils have done to last century Porsche engines over the last 20 years 

Regards

Bruce Buchanan
Buchanan Automotive

[Peter M]

So Bruce what your favoured drop of 20w-50 or doesn't it matter so long as the viscosity is right?

[Diamond911]

So Bruce what your favoured drop of 20w-50 or doesn't it matter so long as the viscosity is right?

After discussing this same question with BruceB via email there are a number of 20W-50's that may fit this bill. I decided on Valvoline Max Life 20w-50 due to it's moly and ZDDP content.

[jnr356]

does it get full throttle?

 

[Buchanan Automotive]

Hi Peter , I see Diamond 911 has answered you're question , I really do not like mentioning oil brands on Public forums

( I think that was a private email ? ) , that will teach me to help people

So that brings in the WARNING

Word of warning in regards to LAST CENTURY Porsche engines }

If a last century Porsche engine has ( say ) pitted cams & worn rockers , no other oil in the world can put that worn metal BACK on , so if a Porsche from last century has lots of wear from it being on a Low Oil Film Strength , low viscosity so called synthetic engine oil , a high oil film strength engine oil can "AT BEST " stabilise it if it has ( the wear ) not gone too far 

So do not think  WOW , I am going to switch from a "this century " low viscosity ( low oil film strength ) so called synthetic engine oil to a last century "correct oil viscosity "( 20w-50) & then two years later you dismantle the engine and see cams pitted etc etc etc , that pitting was done years ago & the correct high oil film strength oil ( 20w-50) has only stabilised the wear

That's why I really like the 944S2 & 968 engines ( apart from being fantastic Porsche engines ) , one can quite easily remove the twin cam ( 16V ) cam cover ( rocker cover with NO rockers ) and inspect the cams for wear very easily , where as all other Porsche engines is difficult to check for the dreaded ( this century) "so called" synthetic engine oil wear in these last century engines

This inspection is vital before switching to another oil , because humans will always be human & will only think ( wow this wear I see here and now must of just happened in the last few months )  , but in fact it happened years & years ago

[Diamond911]

My sincere apologies Bruce, I shouldn't have quoted you. Fixed above.

[SimonN]

Now, have we dismantled the same engines , meaning other 3.2 or 3.0 or 3.3 T engines that a human had decided 20w-50 is old school / lets use this new so called synthetic  stuff  ( from around the late 1990's > )  on a so called synthetic engine oil that also had a low / lower levels of ZDDP & these so called synthetics were always 5w-40  10w-40 viscosities ( and some 15w-50's )  & the engine internal wear was just dreadful after about 40,000kms - 80,000kms later ?

Hell Yes 

And yet the answer was always in the owners manuals printed by Porsche in last century Porsche's , from minus 15 deg cel to unlimited high ambient temps = 20w-50 &  up to about 1981 or so & from around 1982 to the turn of the century it read from minus 10deg cel to unlimited high ambient temps = 20w-50 

Bruce

Not wanting to start an argument, while agreeing with you on the sentiment, I have to slightly disagree with some of what you say. Using the right viscosity is essential and 20w-50 is correct. I imagine lots don't use this and that is where the problems begin. As you say, using 5w-40 or even 10w-40 simply won't cut it. However, I have to disagree with you about synthetics.

First off, you can get 20w-50 synthetics. To be fair, I haven't checked availability here in Oz because, to date, I haven't needed to, but it is available elsewhere so i suspect it must be possible to get some here. That doesn't mean I will use any old 20w-50 synthetic because as you point out, some have reduced levels of ZDDP and will wear your engine anyway. However, you can get synthetics that are 20w-50, which have the right additives and molecular make up which will out perform old school mineral oils.The preferred choice in the UK was Silkolene Pro R 20w-50, which is just being rebranded as Fuchs Titan Pro R (how appropriate for an old Porsche). The only downside is that it was very expensive, although some would say "reassuringly expensive!" After all, nothing on our cars comes cheap, so why be a cheap skate on oil?

Maybe we were lucky in the UK on 2 scores. First, we had a very wide range of products and second, one of the PCGB sponsors was the leading independent oil retailer (Opie Olis, who are still going strong) who was an enthusiast and spent a lot of time on educating people.

I do hope that this doesn't hide the key message in what Bruce says, that many use completely the wrong oil in their cars.

[Buchanan Automotive]

Thanks Diamond911 

Regards

Bruce Buchanan

[Coastr]

It's 20w/50 all the way for me, and not synthetic.  Why bother?  We all change the oil long before it is probably due anyway.  Do what it says in the manual.

[Buchanan Automotive]

Hi SimonN we are on the same page , the 20w-50 viscosity is great but the overkill ( very human thing ) meaning the Fuchs ( was Silkoline ) Fuchs Titan Race Pro R 20w-50 , is just that , a complete overkill & made a bit worse as it is specified as a non road oil , meaning its not complied to use in road cars & that opens a big can of worms in regards to ( example ) my customers using it because of my recommendation & later there is an expensive mechanical issue & we all know it has nothing to do with the oil , but you try explaining that to our stringent consumer protection agencies we have here in Australia ( Dept of fair trading / consumer affairs), because the label or specs says ( not for road cars )  I would be deader than the deadest duck you could find , no-one would stick up for me what so ever ( ask me how I know that ) & i would be out of pocket BIG TIME

 Now I could say exactly the same thing on a public forum by saying that we run ( in Sean's 3.0L 16V twin cam, GT3 beating 600HP + 951 ) we run 7 days a week ( in between club events ) a Valvoline 25w-60 race oil + STP blue , 12 months a year , but I would not recommend it for the average customer who does not go to the track & compete ( club stuff )  , because no compliant ( competition oils ) do NOT comply to the relevant emission protocols from the era from which the cars came , but more to the point they must be changed far more often than road oils ( less detergent packages in the competition oils ) 

Note } Sean Buchanan ( JET951) has a custom made ( he made it ) 3.0L 16 v  E85 ( fuel ) Vitesse stage 5  with 600+ HP  Porsche 951  and Sean has been competing at the track for quite a few years now on this engine , winning PCNSW Drivers Championships & Motorkhana Championships & we change out the semi race oil after each event 

So for a road car I would not recommend it at all , but the viscosity is fine & for club supersprints its great , but every event ( big heat cycle ) it should be changed out 

But we do that anyway with our Valvoline  racing 25w-60 + STP blue at a fraction of the price compared to the Fuchs oil & we have no wear issues at all in Sean's 951 ( wet sump and all ) at the track ( but thats another story for another day )

Back to the 1985 911 3.2 , as I mentioned I have know this car for decades & on dismantle of the engine we found NO wear at all on all the mechanical components that get NO oil pressure , meaning these components have to completely rely on Oil Film Strength ONLY , so what are these components that get NO Oil Pressure  ? }

A ) Rockers & Rocker shafts , No Oil Pressure , just splash only =  oil film strength reliant

B ) Timing chains sprockets ( their teeth ) No Oil Pressure , just splash only = oil film strength reliant

C )  Alloy intermediate shaft gear ( its teeth ) , No Oil Pressure , just splash = oil film strength reliant

D )  Pistons / barrels / small end bearings , No Oil Pressure , just splash = oil film strength reliant 

E ) camshafts lobes , No Oil Pressure , just splash = oil film strength reliant 

D ) valve guides , No Oil Pressure , just splash( less actually ) = very very very very very very oil film strength reliant

So here we have an air / oil cooled deep last century 911 engine that has just decent quality / non expensive engine oil all its life & we have no wear at all ( A - E ) & over half its life so called synthetics did not even exist & if they did they were the wrong viscosity & no Wear at all 

I really do not know how to better that in an engine that are well know to wear out all the above items with far far less kms / engine hours of operation in Extreme Driving Conditions  ( bumper to bumper city driving )& we have ONLY ever seen severe wear when these engines have been on So Called Synthetic engine oils ( I can not change what we see on a daily basis ) + add 40 years in field experience in working on Porsche cars  

The fad ( I can only call it a fad ) of using low oil film strength engine oils in last century Porsche's is great for business , so when we see nothing but extreme wear in last century Porsche engines that have been on so called synthetics , what other conclusion could I possible come to , its that bloody obvious & its great for business , we get a massive amount of work from so called synthetic oils causing a crap load of damage , I really should say nothing and let it keep getting worse 

And yet we see no wear on inexpensive , easy to get 20w-50 road compliant engine oils as specified in the owners manuals printed last century by Porsche

Regards

Bruce Buchanan

 

 

 

 

 

[911sies]

Hi SimonN we are on the same page , the 20w-50 viscosity is great but the overkill ( very human thing ) meaning the Fuchs ( was Silkoline ) Fuchs Titan Race Pro R 20w-50 , is just that , a complete overkill & made a bit worse as it is specified as a non road oil , meaning its not complied to use in road cars & that opens a big can of worms in regards to ( example ) my customers using it because of my recommendation & later there is an expensive mechanical issue & we all know it has nothing to do with the oil , but you try explaining that to our stringent consumer protection agencies we have here in Australia ( Dept of fair trading / consumer affairs), because the label or specs says ( not for road cars )  I would be deader than the deadest duck you could find , no-one would stick up for me what so ever ( ask me how I know that ) & i would be out of pocket BIG TIME

 Now I could say exactly the same thing on a public forum by saying that we run ( in Sean's 3.0L 16V twin cam, GT3 beating 600HP + 951 ) we run 7 days a week ( in between club events ) a Valvoline 25w-60 race oil + STP blue , 12 months a year , but I would not recommend it for the average customer who does not go to the track & compete ( club stuff )  , because no compliant ( competition oils ) do NOT comply to the relevant emission protocols from the era from which the cars came , but more to the point they must be changed far more often than road oils ( less detergent packages in the competition oils ) 

Note } Sean Buchanan ( JET951) has a custom made ( he made it ) 3.0L 16 v  E85 ( fuel ) Vitesse stage 5  with 600+ HP  Porsche 951  and Sean has been competing at the track for quite a few years now on this engine , winning PCNSW Drivers Championships & Motorkhana Championships & we change out the semi race oil after each event 

So for a road car I would not recommend it at all , but the viscosity is fine & for club supersprints its great , but every event ( big heat cycle ) it should be changed out 

But we do that anyway with our Valvoline 25w-60 + STP blue at a fraction of the price compared to the Fuchs oil & we have no wear issues at all in Sean's 951 ( wet sump and all ) at the track ( but thats another story for another day )

Back to the 1985 911 3.2 , as I mentioned I have know this car for decades & on dismantle of the engine we found NO wear at all on all the mechanical components that get NO oil pressure , meaning these components have to completely rely on Oil Film Strength ONLY , so what are these components that get NO Oil Pressure  ? }

A ) Rockers & Rocker shafts , No Oil Pressure , just splash only =  oil film strength reliant

B ) Timing chains sprockets ( their teeth ) No Oil Pressure , just splash only = oil film strength reliant

C )  Alloy intermediate shaft gear ( its teeth ) , No Oil Pressure , just splash = oil film strength reliant

D )  Pistons / barrels / small end bearings , No Oil Pressure , just splash = oil film strength reliant 

E ) camshafts lobes , No Oil Pressure , just splash = oil film strength reliant 

D ) valve guides , No Oil Pressure , just splash( less actually ) = very very very very very very oil film strength reliant

So here we have an air / oil cooled deep last century 911 engine that has just decent quality / non expensive engine oil all its life & we have no wear at all ( A - E ) & over half its life so called synthetics did not even exist & if they did they were the wrong viscosity & no Wear at all 

I really do not know how to better that in an engine that are well know to wear out all the above items with far far less kms / engine hours of operation in Extreme Driving Conditions  ( bumper to bumper city driving )& we have ONLY ever seen severe wear when these engines have been on So Called Synthetic engine oils ( I can not change what we see on a daily basis ) + add 40 years in field experience in working on Porsche cars  

The fad ( I can only call it a fad ) of using low oil film strength engine oils in last century Porsche's is great for business , so when we see nothing but extreme wear in last century Porsche engines that have been on so called synthetics , what other conclusion could I possible come to , its that bloody obvious & its great for business , we get a massive amount of work from so called synthetic oils causing a crap load of damage , I really should say nothing and let it keep getting worse 

And yet we see no wear on inexpensive , easy to get 20w-50 road compliant engine oils as specified in the owners manuals printed last century by Porsche

Regards

Bruce Buchanan

 

 

 

 

 

Great to learn from someone who's been in the business for so long. I realise you specialise in older models, but do you have any thoughts and experience on the later engines, such as the M96 and M97?.

We're all aware of the various design problems (IMS, bore scoring etc). I'd be interested to know how the internals hold up to high kms and whether you've taken many of them apart. 

Cheers

Warren