991 GT3 Market watch

[edgy]

36 minutes ago, Shedpest said:

Don't the RS's  go bang like the 991.1 GT3 or has everyone forgotten about the dud motors?

Not sure I could live with the thought it could self destruct at anytime.

2016 Porsche 911 GT3 RS v 2016 Porsche Cayman GT4 comparison review (whichcar.com.au)

They are exposed yes, but I think the sample size is much less given they are built from 2015> around the time the supposed fix came about. 

16 minutes ago, vtsyrlin said:

My ideal buy would be a 991.2 GT3RS

I think the gap between a 991.1 and 991.2 makes it a hard sell at the current asking.

17 minutes ago, vtsyrlin said:

I like the last example (purple is a such an amazing color) but the car has been dealership owned for the past 2 years. I can imagine the type of driving that was "thrown" at it.

It's an odd remark, I am not sure what they are trying to articulate by saying so 

[C_S_Lewis]

44 minutes ago, Shedpest said:

Don't the RS's  go bang like the 991.1 GT3 or has everyone forgotten about the dud motors?

Not sure I could live with the thought it could self destruct at anytime.

2016 Porsche 911 GT3 RS v 2016 Porsche Cayman GT4 comparison review (whichcar.com.au)

I read that the 4.0 didn't suffer from all the same issues, however it's advisable to source a G series  engine. The problem is that there is a lot of conflicting info on the internet with regards to the issues, so who knows what is really true.

[SS 3]

3 hours ago, vtsyrlin said:

What I don't understand is how GT3 market in Europe has taken a real hit while here we are on a very slow trajectory.

The market in Europe and most other countries is holding up fine, I think you’re confusing the UK with Europe. 
The UK has their own economic issues going on post Brexit that differ from other economies. 

 

3 hours ago, Shedpest said:

Don't the RS's  go bang like the 991.1 GT3 or has everyone forgotten about the dud motors?

Correct 991.1 in either 3.8 or 4.0 have issues (valve train failures at higher RPM)  that cannot be resolved easily or cheaply. No matter what variant of the engine you have.

Meaning this market will always soften a lot more than others in tighter times. 

[C_S_Lewis]

Can anyone confirm any further information contrary to the following?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a11658728/porsche-991-gt3-engine-warranty/

Quote

Walliser also told the concerned owners that Porsche tested the engine in the 991.1 GT3 RS and 991 R and didn't find any similar issues.

https://www.carscoops.com/2017/08/porsche-extends-9911-gt3-engine/

Quote

Porsche has already developed new finger followers and camshafts, using a revised manufacturing process and specification. The company also says that the engines in the 991.1 GT3 RS and 911R are not affected by this issue, despite their similar architecture as they feature many differences over the 991.1 GT3.

 

[on_booost]

21 hours ago, mc968cs said:

Does anyone else think the covid prices the aberration?
If so my logic says the pre COVID prices are not a floor but simply a depreciation point the market will punch straight through, with the 991.2 gt3 cars now another 3 or more years older, lots for sale, 992 coming on market second hand too, and near 20 GT4RS also putting pressure on the market second hand..? 

I'd reckon you're right - Especially for non RS cars.
991 RS (both .1 and.2) were peak flipper cars - they are really what put Porsche on the flippers radar.... time will tell i guess?

21 hours ago, cafe_racer said:

$320k 3 years ago also isn’t worth what it was back then. So I guess you have to get the pre Covid price and add inflation. 320k back in 2021 is 370k now. 
 

With that said, you are right, pre Covid pricing isn’t a floor, it’s just a value on their way to full depreciation. 

Especially true for non RS variants. Same with anything not rare ( not produced many of) as a rising tide (now on the way out) raises all boats - even the crappy rotten ones...

16 hours ago, sleazius said:

A price crash would be fantastic. Bring it on.

Ever the opportunist and pessimist - you'd be a blast at BBQ's.....

5 hours ago, C_S_Lewis said:

Can anyone confirm any further information contrary to the following?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a11658728/porsche-991-gt3-engine-warranty/

https://www.carscoops.com/2017/08/porsche-extends-9911-gt3-engine/

 

I know AU cars got a 10 year engine warranty.... not sure there is a car here thats ever done 190,000 + klms?

[SS 3]

991.1 GT3 GT3RS & the 911R

The issue is the engine design not the parts there is a lack of oil to the valve train under high RPM.
Redesigned strengthened parts may be better however the issue has not been resolved.

With the RS 1st gear revs to 9000 all subsequent gears are limited to below 8600rpm . The 911R redline is 8600 or 8500RPM. 

There is extensive history on this through out this thread if you use the search function.

To my mind the joy of revving the engine would be clouded with the thought of a failure; I personally wouldn’t buy one for the fear of a failure out of warranty each to their own though. 
 

some info from Dundon

https://www.facebook.com/share/2XCngHvsKGCEcaKy/?mibextid=qtnXGe

The 991.2 4L engine has been totally revised with extensive testing prior to release.

You can’t compare a 991.1 with a 991.2 in anyway based on the .1 engine issues alone.

 

[hugh]

I find it interesting that a few of the advertised ‘ultra violet’ RS’s note that is a rare colour? Admittedly, ‘lava orange’ is by far the most common but second to that would seem the purple? Only see the odd one in black or white? 
 

As per @SS 3 above, 991.1 RS’s definitely aren’t immune from engine failure and that’s where the price difference in the .2 comes into consideration. 

[vtsyrlin]

1 minute ago, hugh said:

I find it interesting that a few of the advertised ‘ultra violet’ RS’s note that is a rare colour? Admittedly, ‘lava orange’ is by far the most common but second to that would seem the purple? Only see the odd one in black or white? 
 

As per @SS 3 above, 991.1 RS’s definitely aren’t immune from engine failure and that’s where the price difference in the .2 comes into consideration. 

I know a few owners with 991.1 RS (inc. Nick Cascone who has aforementioned purple example  ) and none (afaik) had suffered from an engine failure. Personally, I just prefer a newer car.

[hugh]

I’ve seen 3 let go, all been at the track. Haunts me! 

[vtsyrlin]

42 minutes ago, hugh said:

I’ve seen 3 let go, all been at the track. Haunts me! 

Another reason not to take a chance unless the price is extremely lucrative

[C_S_Lewis]

OK you guys have convinced me.

[sleazius]

4 hours ago, on_booost said:

Ever the opportunist and pessimist - you'd be a blast at BBQ's.....

lol - accurate. Except the bqq part 🤡

[edgy]

12 hours ago, hugh said:

that’s where the price difference in the .2 comes into consideration. 

I don’t think anyone disputes those facts, but in your view (and I know it’ll be a balanced one) what’s a fair premium for the 991.2 RS? 

[hugh]

4 minutes ago, edgy said:

I don’t think anyone disputes those facts, but in your view (and I know it’ll be a balanced one) what’s a fair premium for the 991.2 RS? 

Like you, I have been keeping a close eye on the 991RS market. My feeling is that the current premium of 100k for the .2 over the .1 is about right, it's just that the 991.1RS is essentially a 300k car so therefore I'd be putting the .2 at circa 400k. 

The advertised prices have been coming down but they still aren't moving. I'd expect they still have 5-10% to move before they do. 

[C_S_Lewis]

I'd say $380-390k is about right

[vtsyrlin]

55 minutes ago, hugh said:

Like you, I have been keeping a close eye on the 991RS market. My feeling is that the current premium of 100k for the .2 over the .1 is about right, it's just that the 991.1RS is essentially a 300k car so therefore I'd be putting the .2 at circa 400k. 

The advertised prices have been coming down but they still aren't moving. I'd expect they still have 5-10% to move before they do. 

You re spot-on Hugh! At 400k there is lots of value, unless you think that 992 GT3 for similar money would be a better buy?

[hugh]

6 minutes ago, vtsyrlin said:

You re spot-on Hugh! At 400k there is lots of value, unless you think that 992 GT3 for similar money would be a better buy?

It's a hard call, 992 is a better car (like all new gens vs older gen 911's) but the 991.2 RS is what I'd gravitate towards. The drawcard of an RS product is a big part of it and the 992 RS is another leap again - it's not too dissimilar to the never ending 996/997 debate! 

[wilson59]

21 hours ago, vtsyrlin said:

You re spot-on Hugh! At 400k there is lots of value, unless you think that 992 GT3 for similar money would be a better buy?

992 GT3 better buying.To me the 992 GT3 is essentially a 991.2 RS but better. Carbon bonnet, same size wheels, double wishbone front, wider body, similar track.

[edgy]

2 hours ago, hugh said:

Like you, I have been keeping a close eye on the 991RS market. My feeling is that the current premium of 100k for the .2 over the .1 is about right, it's just that the 991.1RS is essentially a 300k car so therefore I'd be putting the .2 at circa 400k. 

The advertised prices have been coming down but they still aren't moving. I'd expect they still have 5-10% to move before they do. 

Sounds reasonable to me! 

The other benefit of the 991.2 is the MR package option... I know a couple of people with these and they are also cup owners, they say this is as good and close as it gets to a cup for the street, only problem is that it looks preposterous! 

 

1 hour ago, hugh said:

it's not too dissimilar to the never ending 996/997 debate! 

What debate? 

[hugh]

40 minutes ago, edgy said:

What debate? 

I know right! 😆

[GT3MEZ]

3 hours ago, vtsyrlin said:

At 400k there is lots of value, unless you think that 992 GT3 for similar money would be a better buy?

As a 991.2 owner, I think the 992 GT3 is undoubtedbly a "better" car, and it should be, given it is the newer model. Despite the significantly better front end though, the 992 GT3 just feels too digital for my "weekend toy" use case, though each to their own! 

[Peter John]

22 minutes ago, GT3MEZ said:

As a 991.2 owner, I think the 992 GT3 is undoubtedbly a "better" car, and it should be, given it is the newer model. Despite the significantly better front end though, the 992 GT3 just feels too digital for my "weekend toy" use case, though each to their own! 

Have you had either put on track? I wouldn’t call a 992 GT3 digital other than what the dash looks like. I’d love a CDR220 in one btw!

[GT3MEZ]

No

50 minutes ago, Peter John said:

Have you had either put on track? I wouldn’t call a 992 GT3 digital other than what the dash looks like. I’d love a CDR220 in one btw!

Nope - have a couple of race cars and am yet to meet a road car which feel anything other than compromised at the track tbh.

When I said "digital" - I meant in terms of the interfaces, not the driving experience for sure!

[Shedpest]

Has anyone actually inspected this car?

https://www.pickles.com.au/used/details/cars/2019-porsche-911/61636198

[Teutonic]

4 hours ago, Shedpest said:

Has anyone actually inspected this car?

https://www.pickles.com.au/used/details/cars/2019-porsche-911/61636198

Looks very much like the car a mate of mine looked at that was at Lorbeks. He had an inspection. ECU tune, cat deletes and Porsche not interested in granting extended warranty. He walked and Lorbeks subsequently removed it from their showroom.