Real Estate Question

[911virgin]

hi all, hope this is ok in this part of the forums?.............

 

ok, so ive got a rental property which was vacant and having various needed repairs............under care of a property manager of a real estate firm in VIC.

 

squatters moved in.................theyve been removed , however $8000 worth of damage requiring repairs are needed.

the real estate firm say they are not responsible for what happened................im getting my contract sent to me so i can review it

 

i suspect there's some fine print which absolves the RE firm from responsibility..........

 

any advices much appreciated  or anyone here been through a similar thing?

[LeeM]

 I don't know the legal side of it when dealing with these property management clowns, yet I have done some maintenance at rental properties with a similar scenario.

 As far as I'm aware, they're just a mediator between you and the tenant, and if any works are required the tenant contacts them, who in turn contacts you to organise repairs unless they have their own maintenance crew. With squatters, they have no responsibility for what happens to your property, yet they are happy to take your money for doing bugger all.

I have no doubt whatsoever they'll fight tooth and nail to absolve themselves, and will drag it out unless there is something in your contract that clearly states they are responsible. I imagine it's the same as if your house or car was vandalised by random idiots, so I'd be contacting my insurer if I were you. 

 In a nutshell, have a look at the contract to see if they are, yet I can nearly guarantee it would be a lot easier for you to just get the repairs done yourself by a REPUTABLE building maintenance company. 

[911virgin]

thanks Lee M for your advice

i await the contract and will check the fine print but as we suspect , im sure theres something which will absolve the RE firm from any responsbility          ............................

[TwoHeadsTas]

1 hour ago, 911virgin said:

thanks Lee M for your advice

i await the contract and will check the fine print but as we suspect , im sure theres something which will absolve the RE firm from any responsbility          ............................

Would have thought that providing you had Landlords cover you will get the insurance cover for the repairs.  I'm no lawyer, but if the R/E agents weren't doing what they were supposed be doing, and you were paying them to do, perhaps the fight might end up between your insurance company and the RE firm?  I know who has the bigger pockets in that case.....

[911virgin]

hey THT

 

unfort. when the prev. tenants vacated, i ceased the landlord insurance....................in retrospect i should have kept it  .................argghhhhhhhh!!

[tomo]

1 hour ago, 911virgin said:

hey THT

 

unfort. when the prev. tenants vacated, i ceased the landlord insurance....................in retrospect i should have kept it  

Yeah it's a fact the lazy bustards take your money for "Manageing " Your property but in reality the only reason you hire a property  manager is to help with neg/ gearing and tax It's your place you have to look after it.But in saying that it sounds like your management group were not up to the task, we went a half dozen different management groups over the years until we found the right one.

[3legs]

I'm going to be the devils advocate here but was the agent aware there were squatters in there in the first place. Once the real tenants had vacated the property what responsibility does the agent have while the property is empty.

They certainly would not be obligated to check every day for squatters. The squatters could have been and probably were in there for weeks before the agent knew.

[AndrewM]

I am not a lawyer.... now for my 2c worth...

 

Not sure this is the fault of the agent here, unless they left the home unsecured.

How did the squatters gain entrance? If the place was left open by the people renovating, then this could be on them. If the site was locked up, and they squatters broke in, this would probably be your insurance.

 

[tomo]

19 minutes ago, 3legs said:

I'm going to be the devils advocate here but was the agent aware there were squatters in there in the first place. Once the real tenants had vacated the property what responsibility does the agent have while the property is empty.

They certainly would not be obligated to check every day for squatters. The squatters could have been and probably were in there for weeks before the agent knew.

The agent  that we had would conduct a inspection of the property every six weeks, Transfer the rent to my account minus commission monthly and if tenet moved out he would have new one in within a week

Lined up, But if prior tenets had wrecked the place we always had to fix it, With help from the insurer's of course. 

[hugh]

Unless you are after information regarding cheap suits, expensive watches or AMG's I wouldn't bother contacting the estate agent. 

 

 

[Harsh]

Ha Ha

[Troubleshooter]

3 hours ago, 911virgin said:

hey THT

 

unfort. when the prev. tenants vacated, i ceased the landlord insurance....................in retrospect i should have kept it  .................argghhhhhhhh!!

Timeline between final vacate inspection, when the squatters arrived, and their length of stay, could be of relevance re  schedule of agent inspections in your contract.

I'd be extremely surprised if the agent is responsible but does depend on the contract. If it's a standard REIV contract I think you'll find they have no responsibility, unless you had extra clauses inserted for a situation like this. If a solicitors contract I am sure it will be angled even more in their favour with all responsibility on you. Once you cancelled the Landlord insurance, I assume you didn't commence a standard property building/PL  policy? 

[tomk86]

Same thing happened to me during one of Dan’s extended lockdowns. The property was trashed by junkies and left me with $20k plus damage. Thankfully insurance covered the majority of it, but as others have said I can’t see how this is the agents responsively unfortunately…

[911virgin]

4 hours ago, 3legs said:

I'm going to be the devils advocate here but was the agent aware there were squatters in there in the first place. Once the real tenants had vacated the property what responsibility does the agent have while the property is empty.

They certainly would not be obligated to check every day for squatters. The squatters could have been and probably were in there for weeks before the agent knew.

Hey all

Thanks for everyone's input.👍

The property manager isn't sure how the squatters entered.....the police said there were no signs of forced entry. The working theory is that a tradie who had been given they key to open the house todo their work had not locked up properly.

I'm a bloody idiot.....should have got insurance when I cancelled the landlord insurance.......didn't continue the landlord insurance because of massive delays just get tradie quotes for repairs then even longer to complete the repairs.....which are still to be completed after the squatters additional damage😠.

So untenanted since 7/2022.

[tomo]

1 hour ago, 911virgin said:

Hey all

Thanks for everyone's input.👍

The property manager isn't sure how the squatters entered.....the police said there were no signs of forced entry. The working theory is that a tradie who had been given they key to open the house todo their work had not locked up properly.

I'm a bloody idiot.....should have got insurance when I cancelled the landlord insurance.......didn't continue the landlord insurance because of massive delays just get tradie quotes for repairs then even longer to complete the repairs.....which are still to be completed after the squatters additional damage😠.

So untenanted since 7/2022.

Blame  covid @911virgin it funked a lot of us and made others, And the word " Manager" is a myth these days .

[sleazius]

Remind me again why my loot is tied up in ETFs and shares... the number of horror stories from property.

Sorry for the $$ loss.

[rminc]

Barely worth having an investment property in Victoria. Interesting times ahead. Keen to see what happens to the market with the latest influx of immigration. 

[911virgin]

18 minutes ago, sleazius said:

Remind me again why my loot is tied up in ETFs and shares... the number of horror stories from property.

Sorry for the $$ loss.

thanks mate

 

absolutely, diversification is key!

[LeeM]

7 minutes ago, rminc said:

Barely worth having an investment property in Victoria. Interesting times ahead. Keen to see what happens to the market with the latest influx of immigration. 

 Oh that's a whole new topic, but yes you're very correct there with the immigration thing. People think it's bad now with the housing crisis, yet it's going to be an absolute shit show in 5 to 10 years, or even sooner

 

[911]

I don't see the market getting worse, or a massive crash. Inflation is so high, that like most things housing will also to continue to inflate, because the purchasing power of the AUD will continue to drop. 

All just yield curve control. 

[3legs]

I have to admit I've done well with property over the years and have never really had any major issues but my major concern with the influx of immigrants especially from the sub continent is how the tenants are going to treat the properties. Not saying all will be bad but I suspect that a fair percentage will think they are still living in a third world country and treat the property accordingly. I hope I'm wrong but time will tell I guess.

[911virgin]

14 hours ago, LeeM said:

 Oh that's a whole new topic, but yes you're very correct there with the immigration thing. People think it's bad now with the housing crisis, yet it's going to be an absolute shit show in 5 to 10 years, or even sooner

 

With increased numbers of immigrants who were absent during 2020/21 due to covid, this will increase demand for rentals and to a lesser extent demand for house purchases.

With all the problems with lack of supply of new homes and apartments and limited supply of houses for sale this will lead to further rent rises and probably a rebound in property prices .......simple economics

[Arne Krix]

I have been on the road throughout Victoria seeing homeowners for nearly 30 years. I must have been in thousands of homes . The absolute horrendous dirty and filthy places I have seen did not belong to immigrants. They come here for a better life and try harder.  The real bad stuff I have seen were people affected by drugs or alcohol , mental issues, and these homeowners were overwhelmingly Aussies. I am thinking of renting a bungalow on my property and it will be a foreign student. 

12 hours ago, 3legs said:

I have to admit I've done well with property over the years and have never really had any major issues but my major concern with the influx of immigrants especially from the sub continent is how the tenants are going to treat the properties. Not saying all will be bad but I suspect that a fair percentage will think they are still living in a third world country and treat the property accordingly. I hope I'm wrong but time will tell I guess.

I have a different opinion here. I have been around the world , seen many "3rd world countries". Yes, facilities are basic, but nowhere have I seen dirty and disgusting toilets like in Australia. Every Mc Donald toilet is full of shit , smeared around , stinks, absolutely horrific. I see it every day. Business owner does  not give a fuck , general public doesn't. A lot of people around who do not care at all. I see rubbish dumped on the side of the road , furniture, building materials , plastic , etc. Just go for a day to Moe, Morwell and surroundings. 3 rd world right there , no " foreign students " there. Go to Clyde , Cranbourne , almost exclusive Indian occupied nowadays, no rubbish on the ground. 

[3legs]

Yes I have to admit @Arne Krix that I haven't had any foreigners as tenants before so I'm really only making an assumption. Also some of the shittiest places I seen or been in have been rented by Australians. Incidentally the worst places have been tenanted by women. Not trying to be sexist, just my own personal observations.

[tomo]

3 minutes ago, 3legs said:

Yes I have to admit @Arne Krix that I haven't had any foreigners as tenants before so I'm really only making an assumption. Also some of the shittiest places I seen or been in have been rented by Australians. Incidentally the worst places have been tenanted by women. Not trying to be sexist, just my own personal observations.

Yep , when we had a couple of renters, Married couples were generally pretty good and took a bit of pride with the garden and house, Groups of 2 or 3 renters blokes or sheilers were the worst, Holes in the walls doors off hingers, holes in the fly wire rubbish stacked up under the house all Ozys  , The properties  were in what is considered  a good area, Good tenets are hard to find.