A couple of 80s Carreras - thoughts?

[DJM]

Havent seen any discussion of these 2 on the forum.

this one looks neat but i assume backdates are fast falling out of favour? Probably too exxy as a result particularly with no mechanical rebuild. Assume started as an import? no mention of the "porsche specialist" that built it. Fuchs are nice but 17s look wrong? Non factory colour.

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-Carrera-1986/SSE-AD-2358010/?Cr=44&sdmvc=1

This ones been on market forever, I assume too pricey and non standard is a turn off. But could be reverted to standard easy enough and looks quite neat, good colour combo

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-Carrera-1984/SSE-AD-149394/?Cr=38&sdmvc=1

They look like enthusiast vehicles so maybe owners are on this forum?

[randall]

Two different cars - one is more about appearance while the other is all about performance. Would be great if you could combine the looks of the first one with the perfomance mods of the second one.

 

First one likely built by Zag  and yes they often start off with an import and/or LHD in order to keep the cost down.

 

Here is an example of a donor car - slightly damaged LHD.

 

This picture shows a car they built in 2006 that looks awfully similar to the one on carsales:

 

 

 

I am guessing the second car has had a lot of money thrown at the engine build amongst other things and the owner is expecting to recoup some of his expenses. Given how long has it been on the market that is obviosly not happening. Based on the mods listed it sounds like it would be a great car to drive.

[wasserkuhl]

It would appear that these cars are not priced right.

 

I would deduct 10k from each asking price and they would be correct for the current market.

 

In the 50-60k Bracket for C 3.2's, you would have to be looking at an un-molested, FSH Minter.

 

I am not trying to insult the sellers here, but the above commentary around back-dates falling out of favour is correct, I am sure that they were never really in favour(in Australia at least).

 

The Club car has had alot of $$ thrown at it and probably has been driven as it was intended. It would be a race car for the road.

 

Again, it depends what you want.

[Norm]

It comes down to what a person wants, and perhaps backdated have fallen out of favour.. Actually this might make an interesting poll on the forum..?

I like the look of them but because of my conservative nature couldn't see myself driving one. And at the end of the day the price should reflect their overall condition. With the blue one it sounds like they haven't touched the engine which is a shame when so much effort was put into the rest.

I really like the sound of the second car and considered the trip to Vic to inspect it. As it turns out my current car came on the market in Perth for approx. 10k cheaper and I snapped it up. And that was more because of logistics than preference for the local one. Anyway I digress..

Based on the engine and all the parts used in the car, I actually thought it sounded like value for money, provided the body was in good shape. My plan was to restore the interior which is relatively cheap and easy to do. Again provided the body was in good shape.

I'm surprised it's been on the market for so long. In its current state it is a track car I guess and I suppose people can't be bothered with the hassle of converting it over. Or maybe the body needs work??

I started a thread on this car out of curiosity and no one seemed to know its history.

[CarreraG50]

May as well throw this one into the mix, Pommy import I think,

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-1980/SSE-AD-963292/?Cr=8&sdmvc=1

Also been for sale for a while.......

[Jimmy]

May as well throw this one into the mix, Pommy import I think,

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-1980/SSE-AD-963292/?Cr=8&sdmvc=1

Also been for sale for a while.......

Love it green.

 

What about this one, seems to have been for sale for ever.

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-Carrera-1985/SSE-AD-1143095/?Cr=39&sdmvc=1

[LeeM]

Anyone want to buy a 912 in pieces for $42,999

LOVE that Viper Green thing

[DJM]

Looks like noone is interested in RS clones - 3 on market at same time.  That silver one looks horrid with all the orange everywhere.

 

Here's a serious clone.....but $210k, surely not.  Surely you'd buy a 997 GT3 RS instead?

 

http://www.my105.com/ListingDetails/tabid/65/p/4/cid/559/id/3042/Default.aspx

[Chris-p]

I like the green one. It's been for sale for quite a long time and has moved down in price.

Would be a fun car to own....

C

[hugh]

Looks like noone is interested in RS clones - 3 on market at same time.  That silver one looks horrid with all the orange everywhere.

 

Here's a serious clone.....but $210k, surely not.  Surely you'd buy a 997 GT3 RS instead?

 

http://www.my105.com/ListingDetails/tabid/65/p/4/cid/559/id/3042/Default.aspx

I have seen the silver and orange car in the flesh and it appears to be a tidy and well presented car. As for the orange, well that's just a case of pulling off the vinyl decals, powder coat the wheels black, fresh black decals (if your into that kind of thing) and change the gauges to OEM or white - the engine paint, who cares?

 

As for the 74 rep, that's a serious car with serious $$$ invested, hence the asking price. A lot of people who have these type of cars already have a GT3 RS.

[TrevMcRev]

I like 'em.  Been ogling the green one for a while now...and I like the Silver/Orange - except for the gauges!

 

I get doing it though, half the pleasure would be in the build.  Sourcing the things you want, seeing it transform etc.

 

But expecting to get your money back...not likely in Oz it seems. 

 

You either need to name it after a sewing machine or have a first name like Magnus & a surname like Walker to get the big bucks.

 

Otherwise, don't mess with them.  That said, i kinda want to mess with one!

[Rossnall]

I like 'em.  Been ogling the green one for a while now...

Me too, if I was in the market right now I'd have looked at it already.

[emile]

If an unmolested 3.2 is so desirable, how come I've still got mine?  Been trying to sell it for a while with no luck and no lookers at all.  Only asking $40k because of a busted head stud.  I polished it at the weekend and was (still pleasantly) surprised at the paint quality and panel fit.

[Peter M]

If an unmolested 3.2 is so desirable, how come I've still got mine?

Emile,

I thought about it when I was in the market but the numbers don't stack up when you can get a lower mileage minter 85 for $50-$55,000 and little risk of unforeseen extra costs or surprises.

[Guest hepkat63]

newbie question... what is a 'backdater' ?

[Russ]

where you take a more recent car and make it look like an older one

[Coastr]

If an unmolested 3.2 is so desirable, how come I've still got mine?  Been trying to sell it for a while with no luck and no lookers at all.  Only asking $40k because of a busted head stud.  I polished it at the weekend and was (still pleasantly) surprised at the paint quality and panel fit.

If you want my honest feedback (and I don't know your car) - if a car is advertised as needing work, then why not have the work done and advertise at a higher price?

If I see a car that needs work, there are two things I assume:

1) the amount of work that needs to be done is not restricted to the thing that is obviously wrong. It is likely to be 3x the estimate.

2) the owner is short on cash and enthusiasm and has likely scrimped in other locations, which may come back to bite me.

To me, as a buyer, there is no premium for 'potential'. If I'm going to buy a headache, I want a steep discount for the aspirin. And experience has taught me that most unrealistic sellers are positively hostile to realistic offers.

If you want to sell it, clean it up, get some good photos and pay for a warts-and-all PPI, detailing a quote to get it fixed with the ad. Be prepared to accept an offer of market value for color, model and year, minus fix cost, minus PITA adjustment factor. Or just get it fixed yourself.

This is my honest opinion and not meant to offend.

[emile]

Thanks, Coastr - no offence taken, none at all.  Truth is always preferable to the alternative.

 

I understand what you say and why. The studs are the only thing wrong with my car and I will have them repaired ASAP and put it back on the market at a higher price, as you suggest.  

[SteamWolf]

The sort of people that pay full price for a Porsche do not want to fix problems on the car. It seems to me that cars with problems only sell quite cheaply, and cars in excellent condition sell at a disproportionately higher price.

[Tit]

When I was looking for cars this was my exact approach. I was prepared to pay a premium for a fully sorted (and un-modified) car or would only pay a bargain amount for a car that required some work.  This is adjustable depending on the model.  If it's rarer or more desirable (in the market, not in my mind) then that will factor in.

 

The first car I looked at, the guy had converted an SC into a 964 body. I can't help but think that if he just left it original it would be long-sold by now.

 

Also - there's clues about the car that may or may-not reflect on how the owner has treated the car.  For example:

 

- mods of questionable taste might point to the owner having questionable judgement.

- cheap tires and taking the 'cheap route' on other parts might also point to similar behavior on more important items.

- buying off a "wealthy" owner might point to that owner not balking at work that is recommended by a mechanic.  ie. I would call the mechanics of the cars I was looking at and ask if the owner did all the work that was recommended. Owners of 'means' usually would just say 'yes - do it'...(and I was also assessing the mechanic themselves)

 

I think in this case if I was the buyer and saw that some head studs needed to be done, the first thing I'd wonder is what else needs to be done?  What else has been left for the next owner to deal with?

 

I also think that in general there's three types of people who are getting into air-cooled Porkers. 

 

- People who can't really afford them and will go for a bargain,

- People who want a bargain they can do a project on, and

- People who know what they are looking and and likely have the wallets to support the acquisition.

 

The second two buyers will be well studied and have high expectations.  They will ask a lot of questions, such as the ones I pointed out above.  Therefore, there's very few buyers in the 'middle ground'.  Ie. people are looking for bargains or looking to pay good money for good cars.  The 'meh' cars in the middle of the price range therefore hang around for longer...you need to make your car stand out!

 

The car I just bought (fell in the desirable-in-the-market category) - had a bunch of stuff that needed doing.  When we (both owner and I) got the PPI back, we got a quote from the mechanic and the owner basically took the quote for the work off the asking price.  This worked nicely for me because I now had control of what work would be done and I'd end up paying less stamp duty on the purchase price.

 

Oh - I'm always astounded by poor photographs as well.  When I sold my last car (135i) I spent two days doing paint correction and polishing, then went out with the SLR and took the best photos I possibly could.  In full sun-light, all angles and proving there was nothing to hide in the shadows of a tree or crappy fluro light.  That car was sold within three days.

 

If you want my honest feedback (and I don't know your car) - if a car is advertised as needing work, then why not have the work done and advertise at a higher price?

If I see a car that needs work, there are two things I assume:
1) the amount of work that needs to be done is not restricted to the thing that is obviously wrong. It is likely to be 3x the estimate.
2) the owner is short on cash and enthusiasm and has likely scrimped in other locations, which may come back to bite me.

To me, as a buyer, there is no premium for 'potential'. If I'm going to buy a headache, I want a steep discount for the aspirin. And experience has taught me that most unrealistic sellers are positively hostile to realistic offers.

If you want to sell it, clean it up, get some good photos and pay for a warts-and-all PPI, detailing a quote to get it fixed with the ad. Be prepared to accept an offer of market value for color, model and year, minus fix cost, minus PITA adjustment factor. Or just get it fixed yourself.

This is my honest opinion and not meant to offend.

[hugh]

I tend to agree, as has been said before "your buying the owner, not just the car". The way and how a car has been advertised and prepared can say a lot about the owner - yes, a generalisation but more often than not true. (IMO)

[550Spyder]

Tit is spot on. I am in the market at the moment and am absolutely astounded by people trying to sell with no information in the advert and completely rubbish photos. Surely if you are selling you just want to get the whole unpleasant business over and done with ASAP so why not as tit suggests make the car and advert as attractive, informative and engaging as possible to buyers.

The other thing that fries my brain is how can people maintain a 30 year old classic with all the potential pitfalls of an air cooled , then fail to spend 15 minutes a year putting some leather conditioner on the seats. I am amazed at how cars with great cosmetics externally look like the front seats have been aged in the Sahara.

I agree you are buying based on the pedigree of the seller, but the trouble is with 20-30 yo cars, they typically have had 5-8 owners, with many of them less informed and dedicated as you guys.

The search continues.......

[_Tony]

550Spyder, check your messages

[911barber]

i can proudly say i will buy my second P car from some weird pedantic anal dude just like me. Some one who mops his garage and cleans when its not needed....

[webrest]

I tend to agree, as has been said before "your buying the owner, not just the car". The way and how a car has been advertised and prepared can say a lot about the owner - yes, a generalisation but more often than not true. (IMO)

 

Jeez Hugh, you are spot on from my point of view.

Before I pay any particular attention to the vehicle for sale I scrutinize the background as much as I possible can to see what sort of situation the vehicle has been living in. Whether the lawns are cut, is the water hose wound up, condition of the house. what does the fence look like all the tell tale signs of the habits of the vendor.

They have always been key indications of what the car is going to be like.

Not set in concrete obviously but pretty accurate more often than not.

Back in the day before internet images, the sound out phone call and the initial drive by the house was essential.

If things didn't look promising I would generally just ring the vendor back make my apologies thank them for the opportunity and say something like I have decided on another vehicle. Never wanted to leave them living in hope of a sale like a lot of buyers do. 

The chance was that you may have missed a very good deal but by in large it has always worked pretty well for me.

 

Dave