Doish13 Posted 5December, 2012 Report Share Posted 5December, 2012 Just did.... Awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 5December, 2012 Report Share Posted 5December, 2012 Just for fun, jump on any enthusiast forum. Audi, VW, BMW................. they all have some terrible failures that you just wouldn't expect of cars that are so 'young'............I was shocked to learn of the amount of Mechanical failures BMW's made since 2000 encounter. The M96/M97 engines have had failures. Porsche's take on it is this : Statistically there are a very small percentage of these engines that have failed and been replaced under warranty. Some more have failed out of warranty upsetting people who have spent a great deal of hard-borrowed money on what they thought was a modern and reliable prestige car of impeccible engineering heritage. Cayennes have some issues pre-2008 with coolant pipes(plastic) failing, dripping onto starter motors and failing them as well. Cayenne/Panamera Diesels have issues with EGR valves as well.......... People make the leap of faith and go from a Toyota Land cruiser into a Cayenne and get really upset when the vehicle breaks down..........as they should, they just paid $115k for a brand new car. The over engineering stopped in the mid 90's. The only advice I can give people is to get an extremely thorough Pre Purchase inspection done if they are consiering a 996/997, even to get an optical camera in there and look at the bores for scoring or cracks etc..... Its the best cash you will spend on the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz951 Posted 5December, 2012 Report Share Posted 5December, 2012 My wifes Alfa had an engine failure last year, siezed bearing which turned out not to be uncommon when I googled it after the fact. . I did some searching to see how many incidents of oil pump drive failure had been discussed on the net, apart from Gary's story on this board I couldn't find any other mention of it. Is anyoine else aware of other cases reported on forums somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red3.2 Posted 5December, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 5December, 2012 Yes, Golf TDI oil pump failure same as Gary's back in March, 9 grand later and after Hughs comment on his mates DSG may think of updating soon. cheers Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-p Posted 5December, 2012 Report Share Posted 5December, 2012 I had the mechatronic unit fail in my passat TDI after 2 years. it was replaced under warranty. Do love it though its an awesome gearbox... C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red3.2 Posted 5December, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 5December, 2012 Love the golf to Chris great DD and its just one of those things, not sure what to go for next as a DD. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 6December, 2012 Report Share Posted 6December, 2012 The best corollary to this story is the BMW Nikasil problem. This affected the M52 and M60 engines. The M52 were the inline six fitted to the E36, E34 and E39 models, and the M60 was the V8 fitted to the E34. Owners used lower-quality high-sulphur fuel in their engines, which created a chemical reaction with the Nikasil coating used to line the bores on the alloy blocks. Once the Nikasil coating wore away, the pistons ate away the soft alloy very quickly. You ended up with a smoky, underpowered engine with virtually no compression. The failures occured on many BMWs out of warranty, and the initial BMW response was 'not our problem'. But they did come around and many blocks were replaced under goodwill. BMW originally ignored the problem (it first showed up in the M60 engines in the USA) because they couldn't work out what was wrong. Eventually all the engines were redesigned, and I believe the lawsuit-obssessed USA got granted an extended mileage warranty for the original purchaser. But if you bought a high-miler 6 year old, you're on your own. The response sounds very similar to Porsche with the 996 engine failures (initial denial, warranty fixes, some goodwill but ultimately it ends with time, mileage + owners). However. In the BMW case once you got the block replaced, they used Alusil instaed of Nikasil, and the problem never recurred. But if you bought a used BMW with one of these engines, you had no way of knowing how much low quality fuel went through the engine, and how close to death the bores were. You could do a compression test and then only ever put in high quality fuel, but death could just be around the corner. As a result the prices of the affected cars fell through the floor. I didn't ever hear of this occuring in Australia, it was mainly restricted to the UK/Ireland and the USA, presumably because of imported fuels or something. This type of things occurs in the motor industry all the time. Ironically it affects all owners as the market price of the cars tends to drop down to the point where a replacement engine is factored into the purchase price, so even if your engine is unaffected, you still get whacked with excessive depreciation. Sucks but there it is. It's hard to make high quality cars these days with cost pressures. If you want an overengineered car, something german from the 70s or 80s will fit the bill. Everything from an S Class Benz to 3.2 Carrera to an E30 M3 : truly a golden age of high quality German cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babalouie Posted 6December, 2012 Report Share Posted 6December, 2012 There's heaps of other examples too. Apart from VW/Audi DSG failures, early Cayennes with Lokasil liners also have been known for the Lokasil to flake off and lunch the whole motor (Turbo and Diesel cayennes had Nikasil liners and are ok tho). BMW also had fuel pump problems with the 3.5 twin turbo (also a class action in the USA), and staying within Porsche, 968s have an IMS-esque concern over the variocam system which can eat the motor, too. And if you want to really get a shock, google "Kia Carnival Engine Failure" (something like 50% failure rate of the original-shape Rover sourced V6s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 6December, 2012 Report Share Posted 6December, 2012 I just read a bit about the Kia. Sobering reading, that. At least with a Porsche it is still worth something even with a dead engine. A Kia with a dead engine is negative value because you'd have to pay someone to get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 6December, 2012 Report Share Posted 6December, 2012 Did Kia actually buy Rover engines expecting them to be reliable? You guys are kidding.......aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 6December, 2012 Report Share Posted 6December, 2012 Apparently ROW got other engines, but aust market got ex rover engines. Kia replaced many user warranty (short block only) but walked away from the rest. Official failure rate was 40% Given the target market for a budget people mover was families without a lot of cash, it must have caused a lot of pain, particularly for used buyers out of warranty. Ouch, just ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babalouie Posted 6December, 2012 Report Share Posted 6December, 2012 The Kia thing was a terrible situation, they would replace blown motors with (equally failure prone) crate motors, but once the warranty was up, you were on your own. Apparently some ppl were on their 3rd motor before walking away from the PoS Many Kia head office staff quit in disgust at how it was all handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 6December, 2012 Report Share Posted 6December, 2012 >Apparently some ppl were on their 3rd motor before walking away from the PoS Wow. If that happened to me, and I knew they just replaced it with the same type, I would have walked away. But I suppose the resale values were in th toilet by then, so you're stuck. Doing your research on a car really is the only way. I guess that's why so many people come to me for advice - there is so much BS out there spoken by salesman it really is impossible to trust anyone if you have no clue about cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doish13 Posted 6December, 2012 Report Share Posted 6December, 2012 Just before I bought my 911 I almost bought a RX8. I know no comparison however I love my rotaries and thought it would be a better option with kids. Anyway did some research on the engines and was horrified to read the new 13B's pretty much pack up at 100 thousand km. Pages and pages of failing engines on line... Disappointing as you can still buy a Series 2 Rx7 with 250,000 km running well on original 13B motors. Progress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 6December, 2012 Report Share Posted 6December, 2012 >Disappointing as you can still buy a Series 2 Rx7 with 250,000 km running well on original 13B motors. Nitpick : s2 rx7 ran a 12a from the factory. First 13b in a rx7 was the series 4' both in atmo and turbo versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doish13 Posted 6December, 2012 Report Share Posted 6December, 2012 You are correct there - apologies however you get my drift. Apparently the oil allowed in the US due to some EPA related ruling is detrimental to the engines in new RX8s ....blah blah this is a Porsche forum so will get back on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 Just read another article about some more M96 M97 woes which may not be immediately apparent. Piston damage and scoring. Porsche really did drop the ball on this one didn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babalouie Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 Just read another article about some more M96 M97 woes which may not be immediately apparent. Piston damage and scoring. Porsche really did drop the ball on this one didn't they? That huge 12 page article? Yes, quite eye opening isn't it? But IMHO, you never buy the "version 1.0" of anything that Porsche does. If you look at the history of most Porsche models, the early versions of every generation usually has some sort of achilles heel, be it the snapping head studs in 2.7s, the cam chain tensioner in 3.0s, the Variocam in 944S and 968, early 964 oil leaks and dual mass flywheel, 993 SAI, early Cayenne lokasil bores...the list goes on and on. Porsche usually upgrades and modifies things as they go along, and they did try to do this with the 996 motor, it's just that the 2001 IMS bearing update didn't quite knock the issue on the head. Personally, if I were to buy a 991, I'd wait until the 2014 update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipit Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 But IMHO, you never buy the "version 1.0" of anything that Porsche does. Well for the record my car was the 3.6L 2002 "update" I thought exactly the same thing, didn't help much... I'm sorry, catastrophic engine failure at 60,000 km in a car worth well over $200k with full service history by a marque that portrays itself as the pinnacle of automotive sports car development is simply wrong. You can put any spin you like on it. How ironic is it that you guys are mentioning KIA on a Porsche forum as some sort of comparison. I am attempting to keep philosophical about it, the car isn't even back together yet, when it is, and the dust has settled I will post on here exactly what has happened, what it cost, and what's been done to try and minimise the chance of it happening again. Very very disappointed, again I say, its not that it happened, its that Porsche know about these problems and choose to do nothing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 Well for the record my car was the 3.6L 2002 "update" I thought exactly the same thing, didn't help much... I'm sorry, catastrophic engine failure at 60,000 km in a car worth well over $200k with full service history by a marque that portrays itself as the pinnacle of automotive sports car development is simply wrong. You can put any spin you like on it. How ironic is it that you guys are mentioning KIA on a Porsche forum as some sort of comparison. I am attempting to keep philosophical about it, the car isn't even back together yet, when it is, and the dust has settled I will post on here exactly what has happened, what it cost, and what's been done to try and minimise the chance of it happening again. Very very disappointed, again I say, its not that it happened, its that Porsche know about these problems and choose to do nothing about it. It is definitely a disappointing experience indeed. Its a shame the dealer you bought it from didnt offer an extended warranty? who is doing your repair work? Buik's I hope? I will be interested to read of the progress and how much it cost.....I hope you don't get put off Porsche as a whole as they have brought us far more good than bad.....in particular before Ferry Porsche died......however I can understand your anger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 14December, 2012 Report Share Posted 14December, 2012 I'm very sorry to hear about your experiences Whip It. I totally understand your bitter disappointment and frustration. I just wanted to wish you all the best and I hope you can come out of this and enjoy your 911 again or enjoy whatever you step into next. This is really shitty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 14December, 2012 Report Share Posted 14December, 2012 Google "DSG Failure" and prepare to be shocked YES which was why I only bought the 6spd manual AND made sure I could extend the warranty on my GTI. Pity I haven't had the same line of thinking with my latest car grrrrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipit Posted 14December, 2012 Report Share Posted 14December, 2012 Its a shame the dealer you bought it from didnt offer an extended warranty? who is doing your repair work? Buik's I hope? Yea Marks doing the work, I bought it privately from NSW, full service history, spoke to the dealer at length, 16k on the clock, literally was show room condition. probably doesn't come across like it but I truly am trying to remain philosophical about it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Degrees Posted 20December, 2012 Report Share Posted 20December, 2012 Yea Marks doing the work, I bought it privately from NSW, full service history, spoke to the dealer at length, 16k on the clock, literally was show room condition. probably doesn't come across like it but I truly am trying to remain philosophical about it all. Whipit, I'm interested to know how old the car was you got it? With 16k on it? How many K's per year were previously done? The reason i ask, is that in the research I have done on these cars for my own purchase, I was told and read, that there was a lot better chance of avoiding an IMS failure if the car had done more km's due to fact of the bearing not being starved for oil? I had read that the design was such that it relied on oil splashing around for lubrication. Cars that had sat for long periods, and not occasionally driven vigorously, were susceptible to lack of lubrication to the bearing and hence a bigger chance of a failure? Anyone else heard this one? Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babalouie Posted 20December, 2012 Report Share Posted 20December, 2012 The IMS bearing is like a sealed wheel bearing, in that there is grease inside, with a plastic seal to prevent it from leakin out. I'm not sure what the specific reason is, but low km cars are def. more susceptible to problems. It could be because the balls in the bearing will "brinnell" dimples in the bearing housing if it sits for too long, or maybe the bearing grease dries up or something. It's also possible that cars that do a lot of kms wear out the plastic seal, and so this allows engine oil to get into the bearing. Also the timing chain gives the IMS more even loading at high revs than low, so it could also be that owners that do low kms also baby their cars at low revs all the time. But yes, whatever the reason it seems that cars which do taxi mileages and are flogged hard and put away wet never seem to have any problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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