Chris-p Posted 1November, 2012 Report Share Posted 1November, 2012 That's truly shattering, Gary. I really feel for you. Don't know what else to say! Please let us know how you get on. Take care Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 1November, 2012 Report Share Posted 1November, 2012 I am really feeling for you. That is an absolute SH*T. IMS is like that relative you hope doesn't come to visit, but a timing chain at 60K????? Hope it all goes better than expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted 1November, 2012 Report Share Posted 1November, 2012 Lets hope its not too bad. Good luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.J. Posted 1November, 2012 Report Share Posted 1November, 2012 do the 996TT's have this IMS problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJames Posted 1November, 2012 Report Share Posted 1November, 2012 do the 996TT's have this IMS problem? No they don't. The 996 and 997 Turbo, GT2 and GT3 models all have what is known as the "Mezger" engine, named after the man who designed it. It's basically a watercooled version of the aircooled engines, and is much more robust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipit Posted 2November, 2012 Report Share Posted 2November, 2012 Yea well done Porsche, one has to ask the question, why did they feel the need to have two engine designs? The cynic in me says because they knew the regular engine was poorly designed and would have reliablity problems. So if they knew that why use it at all, tell me is that the Porsche way? Well done, push something you know has problems onto your unsuspecting (and trusting) client base. First and only Porsche I will ever buy, actually think is borderline dishonest. To say i am gutted is an understatement. Its just BS, my car simply could not have been treated or looked after better, period. One extremely unhappy lost future customer. And believe me I will be spreading the word every chance I get, they deserve it. Every single person driving a 996 is driving a ticking time bomb, we are not talking about a $30,000 Hundai, its supposed to be the pinnacle of automotive design and development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurK Posted 2November, 2012 Report Share Posted 2November, 2012 Whipit. I feel for you and understand where you at coming from. The biggest fear I had when I owned the 996 was the RMS letting go. I never planned on owning the car without an extends factory warranty. I took it out for the fourth year and then sold the car due to kids arriving. I was going to purchase a 996 C4S to tie me over till the 991 was released but couldn't bring myself to do it knowing about the RMS issues. When I questioned PCM about it the were quite sheepish and didn't want to say too much. If it was under warranty then all would have been good but at this point in time you are potentially up the creek. Have you owned the car since new or did you buy used? I guess the 996 and 997.1 are problem cars for Porsche but it has t stopped them from selling cars. Good luck with your problem. Hope it turns out well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipit Posted 2November, 2012 Report Share Posted 2November, 2012 No I bought the car 2nd hand. I looked for over a year. I bought it from a guy in Sydney, he kept it in his garage and drove it on week ends. It had 16k on the clock. Full service history form the Porsche centre in Sydney, I rang them and spoke to them about the history of it. When I got it, it still had the original tyres, it was absolutely mint, never been near a track. I drive it daily, always warmed up, regularly serviced, I think only a few weeks ago was the last service. To be honest I thought this IMS thing was an urban myth. Seriously I am just so disappointed. Not sure I will ever feel the same driving it again. I mean who wants to drive a performance car always wondering every time they put the accelerator down that it will cost them 10 grand. Very very unhappy. Anyhow lets wait and see. But i mean they have to pull the engine out, that's not cheap in itself. Bugger it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz951 Posted 3November, 2012 Report Share Posted 3November, 2012 I'm very sorry to read about this happening to your engine Whipit. Whilst a failed IMS may have snapped your timing chain, it may also be nothing what so ever to do with the IMS. It was only a week ago that I mentioned on this forum that I know of a few 996s to have suffered timing chain failures recently. One being a mate here in the UK a few months ago and the other being a Rennlister in the US. As it happens there was another guy here recently that did have a failed IMS and he was fortunate enough to get away with minimal damage. Here's a link to the UK guy's post with the snapped timing chain http://www.911uk.com...pic.php?t=74946 Good luck with yours, unfortunately I don't expect that it will be a cheap fix, hopefully the link might give you some insights. This is the link to the US guy's post (Page 12, post 178 is where he figures out its a snapped timing chain). http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/996-forum/692878-engine-is-damaged-not-an-ims-failure-12.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipit Posted 4November, 2012 Report Share Posted 4November, 2012 Thanks for that. Will have to wait and see exactly what has happened and what damage it's done. Minimum I guess will be bent valves and what goes along with that, worst case doesn't bear thinking about. I am trying to not worry too much about it, but unfortunately I am not doing a very good job of it, i love my car. I think it's the realisation that at least for this model the whole Porsche mystique of engineering and reliability is really a myth. Driving it wont be the same again, unfortunately they are just another mass produced car. If it was just a once off piece of bad luck fair enough, but its not, these are known problems that Porsche chose not to do anything about. Probably what has saved them is most 911 owners don't rack up that many kilometres that quickly, and to most of us spending $10k on an engine rebuild isn't that big a deal. If holden had a Commodore with a problem like this there would be a public out cry. My car was $240k new, it's just not good enough. Last Porsche for me sadly, very very unhappy Jan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC9911 Posted 4November, 2012 Report Share Posted 4November, 2012 Whipit, very sorry to hear of your troubles, 60K klms is just BS, I must admit i tracked my 996 & it never missed a beat but i always had the IMS in the back of my mind which probably pushed me to the 997.2 to get away from it. If your car is being serviced by a P dealer i would have a strong go at trying to get some subsidy, i think if you push hard enough they should br sympathetic. All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted 14November, 2012 Report Share Posted 14November, 2012 http://www.total911....you-be-worried/ I found it on the web, is this it ? Thanks I had no success today trying to have a look at that page, looks like it is no longer available for viewing unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red3.2 Posted 14November, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 14November, 2012 I had no success today trying to have a look at that page, looks like it is no longer available for viewing unfortunately. Hi Niko, It was Jan/Feb 2011 I put the post up and issue 69 Total 911,they have run more articals since but if you want i can find the back issue and try to scan it for you. cheers Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted 14November, 2012 Report Share Posted 14November, 2012 I had no success today trying to have a look at that page, looks like it is no longer available for viewing unfortunately. Hey Niko, try this one. http://www.autofarm.co.uk/pdf/Total911_July06.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted 14November, 2012 Report Share Posted 14November, 2012 Thanks Steve and Jim, I was just checking on that post to see what Adrian was going to be reading so no need for the scanning Steve, but appreciate the offer. Thanks Jim That auto farm site should help Adrian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipit Posted 21November, 2012 Report Share Posted 21November, 2012 Well, I have just been to the mechanics. Seems the more I look into the NA 996 the more issues there are, last count supposedly there are 20 issues, the IMS failure only being one. There is an oil pump driven off the end of the camshaft. Seems its not uncommon for them to seize (in a Porsche?????). When they do (like mine) they immediately snap the timing chain. In doing so the pistons then strike at least two of the valves bending them (like mine), if your unlucky and doing maximum revs (I wasn't) it can damage the top of the pistons in the process (mine didn't) but it also can damage the chain sprocket on the end of the intermediate shaft (like mine) Now the wonderful thing is that (a) the chain is not a split chain, so it can not be simply replaced and b. the only way to remove the intermediate shaft is to separate the two halves of the block, i.e. a total disassembly. Now with a car that's done any mileage at all, in my case 60,000 it makes no sense to do only one head up (the damaged one) so I am up for a valve grind etc. for both, and also since the engine is in total disassembly I may as well fit new bearings and rings, oh and of course the upgraded IMS bearing. So all up I looking at around $12,000, maybe more, all because of a KNOWN weakness in a Porsche 911 that the factory chooses nothing to do about. This is not a shopping trolley, its supposed to be the pinnacle of sports car engineering. Its hard to not be anything other than utterly dismayed by all of this. This is a car with just 60,000km on the clock, that literally is driven daily to work and back by a middle aged businessman. It has never been near a race track in its life and regularly serviced as per the manufacturers recommendation faithfully. I know its 10 years old, but come off it. My advice is if you are thinking of buying a normally aspirated 996 is simply don't. I have read about owners putting away a small amount in a kitty "just in case" but seriously, do you really want to be driving around in a car that at any moment THROUGH NO FAULT OF YOUR OWN will blow the engine up costing over $10,000 to repair? Mr Porsche, very very disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smule Posted 21November, 2012 Report Share Posted 21November, 2012 Had a 996 3.4 many years ago... In a period of 18 months had fuel pump , AFM, gearbox failures...6 months after i sold the car IMS issue and the engine let go... I thought they rectified the issue with the later 3.6s and 997 though... Theres a reason why early 996's can be had for SC money.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipit Posted 22November, 2012 Report Share Posted 22November, 2012 Nope, ALL normally aspirated 996's are the same. They are an absolutely sub standard example of engine design. Sorry to offend any Porsche lovers on here, but maybe it's time someone told the truth. edit : removed incorrect ref to later model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipit Posted 22November, 2012 Report Share Posted 22November, 2012 Sorry, I need to add something. The inference that somehow the fact they are cheap is total bs. I paid $90k for mine, I am sorry for a 10 year old car that is not cheap. The problem is the lie that has been pedalled that a Porsche is somehow above every other car. They simply aren't. In fact it is ironic that I am driving around in a commodore with 110,000 km on the clock after not missing a beat whilst my 911 is being completely rebuilt after only 60,000 km. I actually had to wait for mine to be rebuilt as they were rebuilding a boxster that had had an IMS failure. This stuff is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 22November, 2012 Report Share Posted 22November, 2012 Hey Whipit . Really unfortunate and no doubt irritating event. Mate, you are pissed, and rightly so. Yes the car is a Porrsche and cost mega dollars when new. But like any luxury car its also bloody expensive to service, maintain and repair. All cars have issues of some kind. My 993 may suffer from worn valve guides and need a top end in the very near future, but I knew that and bought the car with that accounted for. Have a look at the Ferrari forums and you will then understand how deep.a pocket you need. At the end of the day that's how it is. No its not good enough, but when I spend $100K I'm going to do my research first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 22November, 2012 Report Share Posted 22November, 2012 Hey Whipit . Really unfortunate and no doubt irritating event. Mate, you are pissed, and rightly so. Yes the car is a Porrsche and cost mega dollars when new. But like any luxury car its also bloody expensive to service, maintain and repair. All cars have issues of some kind. My 993 may suffer from worn valve guides and need a top end in the very near future, but I knew that and bought the car with that accounted for. Have a look at the Ferrari forums and you will then understand how deep.a pocket you need. At the end of the day that's how it is. No its not good enough, but when I spend $100K I'm going to do my research first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJames Posted 22November, 2012 Report Share Posted 22November, 2012 ... Btw, nothing is different in the 997... Just for the sake of accuracy, the 997 is different. I believe that the very earliest 997's had the same IMS bearing as the 996, but it was soon changed to an uprated design. Beyond that, the "997.2", from 2009 onwards, had a DFI engine, which is a totally different engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babalouie Posted 23November, 2012 Report Share Posted 23November, 2012 997.2 engine eliminated the IMS altogether, that's right isn't it, James? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJames Posted 23November, 2012 Report Share Posted 23November, 2012 That is correct - no IMS in the DFI engine. (I would have posted earlier, but I wanted to be completely certain. If possible, I prefer to avoid contributing to "internet facts".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 23November, 2012 Report Share Posted 23November, 2012 It is a shame Whipit, very sad to hear............... Generally speaking though the 911 has earned its stripes, agree that the 996 is not the 911's finest hour though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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