Guest Harold Posted 8January, 2015 Report Share Posted 8January, 2015 Over the past 2 days i have had 3 cars serviced and whilst not whinging about the costs i wonder if the different cost for different cars is justified? I had the P car serviced yesterday and the minor service cost $1245, the day before my 6 months old CRV minor service cost $253 and the 2 year old Euro service cost $645. Do you think the variance is justified? By the way, I hate January's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINGY Posted 8January, 2015 Report Share Posted 8January, 2015 Do you know exactly what they did to the Porsche, what is involved in a minor service, is it all spelled out for you, or do you just cop it cause its a premium brand so premium price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted 8January, 2015 Report Share Posted 8January, 2015 what did they do to each car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgy Posted 8January, 2015 Report Share Posted 8January, 2015 This is PCSS current 911 pricing.... I'm going to take up that $695 special...its due EOM anyway. Consider the 911 takes about 10L of Mobil one & a year of Roadside assist is included... I don't think $695 is too bad for a normal service... seems like you had the intermediate one Harold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted 9January, 2015 Report Share Posted 9January, 2015 This is PCSS current 911 pricing.... I'm going to take up that $695 special...its due EOM anyway. Consider the 911 takes about 10L of Mobil one & a year of Roadside assist is included... I don't think $695 is too bad for a normal service... seems like you had the "intermediate shafting" one Harold "intermediate shafting" more like it , a friend had his newish Cayenne diesel minor serviced for similar money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Harold Posted 9January, 2015 Report Share Posted 9January, 2015 from the invoice: Perform Minor service $384.00 Brake Fluid Flush $172.80 Parts incl Cabin air filter $267.68 Mobil engine oil $225.15 Ultra stop brake fluid $ 37.60 Hire Car $ 20.00 Env waste levy $ 13.90 Workshop supplies $ 10.80 GST $113.20 Total charge $1,245.13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Harold Posted 9January, 2015 Report Share Posted 9January, 2015 This is PCSS current 911 pricing.... I'm going to take up that $695 special...its due EOM anyway. Consider the 911 takes about 10L of Mobil one & a year of Roadside assist is included... I don't think $695 is too bad for a normal service... seems like you had the intermediate one Harold? where do you go to get this pricing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINGY Posted 9January, 2015 Report Share Posted 9January, 2015 I'd say a special intermediate. Not really any different to any other make, still got belts, pulleys, oil etc to make it run, just premium German service costs i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Degrees Posted 9January, 2015 Report Share Posted 9January, 2015 the pricing at Porsche Centre Brisbane is significantly lower! Would post a pic if I could work out how to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgy Posted 9January, 2015 Report Share Posted 9January, 2015 where do you go to get this pricing? That's just on Porsche Centre Sydney South's site: http://www.porschesydneysouth.com.au That is where I get my car serviced as they're my closest dealer Harold. (No late model Porsche independents that I know of here in the south/east) I note your $20 charge for the loaner... that's the only thing that seems cheap lol (PCSS charge me $44) the pricing at Porsche Centre Brisbane is significantly lower! Would post a pic if I could work out how to do it. 911 service.jpg Definitely, previous owner use to service my car there... the prices he mentioned to me prior to me buying it seemed unrealistic... but they are true! This may be helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Posted 9January, 2015 Report Share Posted 9January, 2015 I challenged a BMW service bill recently and was politely enlightened that it's because they are "experts" on their own cars and as such justify charging $198/hour for labour. Fitting a heavy duty towbar to a new X5 cost $4,200. Only $1,200 for the hayman Reece bar, the rest in BMW loom, labour, ecu reprogramming etc.......unfortunately independents I spoke to were uncertain about loom, ecu interface etc and not confident for the new model. They make the cars more and more complex (eg. they've removed service books, it's now stored in the key making it harder for independent workshops to keep up) to further protect their cash cow. Margins on new cars are low, they need to ensure they make their profit in the workshop. Absolute rip off in my view and their behaviour is borderline anti competitive. I'll typically use an independent workshop at half the price whenever I can and I'm absolutely convinced it makes no difference to resale value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINGY Posted 9January, 2015 Report Share Posted 9January, 2015 A guy at work told me today that he got a basic towbar fitted to his car and it was an ECU re-programme, in a 5 yr old Mitsubishi Lancer, $800 odd dollars. Ecu re-programme just for a towbar, this is the first time I have ever heard of this, cars are getting too complex when this has to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 9January, 2015 Report Share Posted 9January, 2015 Enviro waste dumpage fee is a rort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonk Posted 9January, 2015 Report Share Posted 9January, 2015 And I thought $2,500 for the Cayenne tow bar was outrageous, especially as the Audi Q7 one was $1k cheaper! $4,500 for a tow bar is why resale on Europeans suffer so badly and it will only get worse the more they fleece owners. The new owner of an X5 might be able to cop a bill like that but the owner of a 5 year old one might not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 9January, 2015 Report Share Posted 9January, 2015 Prices seem reasonable considering many owners of newer cars are leasing them and paying pre tax $ I reckon if you can afford the depreciation you can afford the service. Or do the minor services at home. It isn't brain surgery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 9January, 2015 Report Share Posted 9January, 2015 My local BMW dealer charges $120 an hour. The big ripoff I see in that itemised bill is the parts. The oils are separate - nearly $300 for parts including cabin air filters. Cabin air filters should cost 20-30, but I bet you're paying closer to 70. The labor seems high but they did do a brake flush and oil change...still stretching it if you ask me. The truth is that working out looms and recoding for things like towbars isn't that difficult, but they are getting smarter and smarter about locking off the electronics to make it harder to write software to talk to it. But the aftermarket is never far behind. The EU has been making noises about ensuring that cars can be serviced by independents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZ930 Posted 9January, 2015 Report Share Posted 9January, 2015 Generally for a service there is a scheduled labour time per job and this is what is used to charge labour costs regardless of actual time taken. i have watched / assisted professional mechanics and they have some neat short cuts. Two or more jobs can be performed at the same time but charged at individual job rates. Labour is charged at a "book rate" but you know the mechanic is not getting paid that (and is pushed to work faster and more efficiently) Another is parts…..they get parts at "industry rates", like every retailer/builder etc (Bunnings have three rates I'm told) and mark the price up to "recommended retail". This could be 50%, 100%, etc whatever is dictated by the manufacturer or wholesaler. (jewellers charge a minimum of 200%, (so when they have a 50% off sale, they still make 50% )..….again this is across the board. So when you buy your parts and take them with you to the service, you are still paying a retail price, maybe slightly cheaper than RRP, don't expect the mechanic to be overly happy that you have the parts. He has just lost a huge profit. Some workshop don't mind, it saves them search time, hence, using up resource time time for no income, so balances out. ASK first. These are my observations and my 2 bobs worth. Funny how 2 bob is only worth 2 cents these days. 'Spose that's inflation for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tit Posted 9January, 2015 Report Share Posted 9January, 2015 You're not just paying for time. You're paying for expertise and experience. That's the exact reason I stopped taking my (BMW) cars to BMW dealerships. They didn't have experienced staff working on the cars but I was paying a premium. They often did more damage than good... I'm happy to pay my independent mech $100 an hour because I've watched him work and have done some work with him. He solves problems and knows merc, VW, bimmers inside out. We have a professional relationship and I can trust him. (That's why he works on the 964 even though he's done very little p-car work. Though many of the systems are the same...bosch etc) Its always interesting to hear his opinions on the cars as he sees the 'reality'. For example, He wouldn't wish a contemporary 4 cylinder bmw to his worst enemy...or recommend anyone buy a dsg or twincharged vag car So...are the rates worth it? If modern dealership porsche mechanics are anything like BMW and VW...then no way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch-monkey Posted 10January, 2015 Report Share Posted 10January, 2015 agreed, i don't mind paying extra if it's done right. no use saving a buck if you have to redo it. or paying extra for a bad job.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted 10January, 2015 Report Share Posted 10January, 2015 The "Dealership" is a franchise which means they have to pay the Manafacturer ( say Porsche) a fee for this, along with meeting the conditions of being a Porsche Dealership such as the colour of the showroom floor tiles to the brand of equipment used in the workshop. Add in the ongoing training of staff and updating required tooling only supplied by Porsche, and you start to see how big an investment a dealership can be regardless of brand. So for them to get a return on this investment they need an hourly rate that will provide it, and while its some time since I actually worked in this area of the industry I'm still pretty sure the Manafacturer does not dictate what the rate is. This is the same for parts even though there might be a MRRP the dealer can charge what they want and still call it " List Price". There was certain dealer in Brisbane that was adding something like 10% to the MRRP, and it only stopped (allegedly) after a backlash from their trade customers (Panel Shops etc.) who were getting their invoices adjusted by insurance company's. (Most insurers only pay MRRP ). Dependant on the amount of parts a Panel shop/Independent mech buys from a dealer it will vary the discount (trade price) they buy them at, but generally speaking (USA/Euro 5-12% - Japan 20-33% - Domestic 15%) these will vary dependent on some parts of course. Manufacturers do have scheduled times and while they must be used and used correctly when the dealer is making a warranty claim, they would tend to be only used as a guide or starting point when the "Retail" customer is paying (rare to see an invoice with the times). Most service departments overbook the diary not just to cover for no shows but as the mechs (or techs as they say these days) are on a bonus system. Basically they buy 8 hrs a day from the tech for usually around 25% of there charge out rate, and if the tech does 12hrs work in 8 hours they get 4 hours bonus. Some say this can drive the wrong outcome and results in poor quality work but usually if there is re-work then time taken to redo it is deducted from the techs bonus. I don't have a problem with paying someone an hours labour even if it only took them 40min to do the job, if there training,experience and investment in tools is what makes them efficient. But getting charged 2 hours for a 1 hour job because the tech is inexperienced/slow or dosn't have the right tool, well that's just stealing. Oh and before I forget, the warranty rate a dealer gets from the Manafacturer will be 30 - 50% less than their retail rate. Somebody mentioned not wanting to pay expert rates for a tech who was not an expert! And quite right too. Without going into the whole story, I was involved in trying to resolve a problem for guy who had an accident repair done. - Anyway while chatting with the service manager about the lack of skilled tradesmen these days, he told me they now have dedicated diagnostic technician who's cost (wage) was subsidised by the manufacturer. He was there to help the other techs and ensure the correct procedures were being done, and of course was only partially productive. A sign of the times unfortunately. Can't say my 2 bobs worth so just my version of the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Speedway Posted 10January, 2015 Report Share Posted 10January, 2015 Stealerships Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Harold Posted 11January, 2015 Report Share Posted 11January, 2015 My local BMW dealer charges $120 an hour. The big ripoff I see in that itemised bill is the parts. The oils are separate - nearly $300 for parts including cabin air filters. Cabin air filters should cost 20-30, but I bet you're paying closer to 70. The cabin air filter (99157362300) cost $156.23 plus gst. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9fan Posted 11January, 2015 Report Share Posted 11January, 2015 Funny how 2 bob is only worth 2 cents these days. 'Spose that's inflation for you. You won't be able to get 5 cents worth shortly ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hounddub Posted 12January, 2015 Report Share Posted 12January, 2015 As an ex-manufacturer representative for three different makes Ive seen this issue raised by owners for years. It shouldnt come as any surprise that the franchise dealer networks of any brand will use their "brand legitimacy" to justify "expert service pricing". Quite simply, Having seen dealer operations across multiple markets I can assure you that all dealerships generate BY FAR of their bottom line from fixed operations (parts and service). In fact, most new car departments even in elite brands run at a near break even just so as to put cars into the service program. In Singapore, all new Porsches were covered under a comprehensive 5 years "total service plan" that even included tyres and brakes. All of the cost of these types of programs are font ended into the sale of the car so as to guarantee the car into the genuine service network for as long as possible. Added to this the extra complexity of ECU designs you can see where this is all coming to eventually, genuine service will likely be your only option on a new car in the near future. Just as a reference for you, Toyota Singapore generates 85% of its net profit annually from the fixed operations side of their business. Massive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 12January, 2015 Report Share Posted 12January, 2015 The cabin air filter (99157362300) cost $156.23 plus gst. Go figure. Well, the bird says that: - non genuine part is $16.25 for the cheapie, $24.50 for the mid-range, and $66 for the genuine Porsche part (USD prices). Porsche Cabin Air Filter 99157362300 So they took you for at least 100% higher than the USD market price and 7 times the generic part replacement cost. Nice work if you can get it, I wish I could charge like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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