911 Hotrod buy or Build

[Spannerhead]

If you where after a hot rod , of the three for sale on Carsales witch one would you pic ? Assuming money is no issue. I personally like the Orange one at Hamiltons . Or would you build one your self ?  Witch I have been considering. If you did build your self, what would you build?

[KGB]

I'd buy the one with the owner's manual in pigeon English or would build;

 

 

[Arnage]

I would go with the Blue ST. Saw the car at Rennsport & it really is nice.

I think its more "hard core" looking than the orange car & with a 993 plus A/C.

The car KGB has posted, wow.

[turboT]

money no issue, Singer everytime. Everything else seems like a cheap version in comparison...

I also have been struggling with the concept of a build. Most hot rods are just clones of original cars, built to varying standards. As the value of the originals often runs to hundreds of thousands I get why people would go that route. Seeing the orange car just reminded me how cool looking a back date can be, but with the advantage of having new upgraded insides. With donor cars costing what they do, I don't think you could build any of the ones online for what they are going for.

To go the Singer route I have found you have to immerse yourself in Porsche car history, like they have done, and pull and blend eras to get what you imagine might be a good car. And there are also many examples of complete fuck ups going this route on carsales ;). In some ways its pretty arrogant to think you could design something better than Porsche and very expensive

I am currently in discussions with Hamiltons on a build. They can build some great cars, but are also struggling with the reality of how much time they need to put in versus what customers will pay. Reality is they make more servicing cars..

In the end it comes down to how brave you are and how much cash you have:

1. Buy one of the three available are you know what you are getting and compared to building yourself, they are good value. You can also get driving straight away.

2. Go the build  - potential world of hurt/most rewarding experience of your life. As soon as I decide what to do I will be sharing every minutes of both

[hugh]

If you where after a hot rod , of the three for sale on Carsales witch one would you pic ? Assuming money is no issue. I personally like the Orange one at Hamiltons . Or would you build one your self ?  Witch I have been considering. If you did build your self, what would you build?

any links to these 3 cars? 

[symsy]

Take 996 4S or Turbo and tune shit out of it , with the prices of the Air cooled so high , depends what you wanna do with it , theres your bang for buck...

There was a 500HP + Turbo with a new motor knowcking around , just slam it low , some good shocks and a good set of seats and your rocking  

 

Failing that I would probably build from scratch , but of course that depends on if your cars a lifer or not , I have built two other cars and they really do feel like new cars , you never doubt their reliability and you can build the street able , track car , cruisin monster the fusion of all .

Theres restos and there  true builds, I have looked at quite a few Aircooled hotrods in the last 6 months and they have been nice , as i said in another post , i just sat on my hands too long… But for the 115k + cars , I personally would consider building what I want rather than what someone else wanted 

The real question is , what is the ultimate combo..you would spec ?? Turbo non Turbo , Air or Water , Super charged or more?

 

Oh now you got me thinking whats peoples view a worked 993 motor or a worked 964 , to turbo or not to turbo?

I have my TT but I wonder what a more raw non turbo 993 motor , non RS motor might go like?

Whats the view on the value of a good worked 964 vs 993 motor in terms of price?

 

 

 

[MFX]

It is almost always a cheaper option to buy a car that someone else has already poured a heap of money into that to build it yourself. Unless of course you can do it all yourself and you enjoy doing it, otherwise if you factor in a wage for the hours you spend, you are still probably behind. That said I have already got my project which I am going to build my self, but for me it will be a labor of love. I enjoy physically building a car myself almost as much as driving it. 

I I think the blue RSR clone would be my pick of the 2 I have seen, not sure what 3rd one you are referring to?

[clutch-monkey]

i'm in two minds on this

on the one hand, it's cheaper to buy one done.

but on the other, if you want it done right, you'll have to do it yourself..

[DJM]

For me hot rod days have passed.  Over 50k for a base car nowadays and more than that again to build (given I'm no backyard car builder!)

alternatively 115k for the blue one or 130k for the Orange one

Either way 100k+ for a hot rod doesn't stack up when there is a very limited resale market and a 996TT is 80k

[LeeM]

 I'd buy something already done that appeals to me the most, then add bits to personalise it. The orange one is my pick.

 OR! If your patient, and want to throw shitloads of cash at something that youll probably not recoup your 'investment' on, buy a stock car and have it modified to make it your vision of the perfect Porsche.

 For $115k, you COULD build something pretty bloody good starting with a 50k 911 that needs TLC, yet it wouldnt have a full on race motor that would be a pig in normal driving conditions. If that's what you like and can afford the constant tuning etc, good luck to ya. 

Yes it adds up doing it yaself, but it depends what you wanna do. An older street/track monster that WOULD be hard to live with on the road, but a great conversation piece at ya local pissing contest, or something that starts every time and looks the same as the track monster? 

 Everyone has their opinion on it, and noone is right or wrong, yet only you can decide what YOU want. In my mind right now, and if I had the coin, I'd buy a Cayman and fit it with big wheels, a wing, loud exhaust etc

 

[550Spyder]

Tough question as both look pretty good and splitting hairs to choose...

...but you asked...

...for mine the blue ST replica. Is a Zag built car who do brilliant work. Is big buck build with the wide body flares. Based on a 1996 galvanised body which is a good start. I am a bit take or leave it on the 993 3.6 as it does create some awkward insurance / legal registration issues. Would be better with a strong 3.2. 

The orange car is nice and will make someone very happy but for $130k it has Nexan tyres, is a partial repaint not full windows out job, is not a galvanised body, is narrow body and has an interior that is confused between 74, hot rod and RS. 

But out for serious lookers there are two similar cars coming to market. Get out those check books 

[hugh]

I've been able to work out the blue zag and the orange Autohaus car but am unsure of the third, hence the request for links (makes it handy for others to comment too) 

You say regardless of money but surely you have a budget in mind? 

To what extent you regard a 'hot rod' would also be helpful (just a look or complete engine, mech etc.) 

Keeping it simple, if a car come up that's 70-80% what you like buy it and add your own touches + enjoy. If your happy to proceed with an 'open chequebook' and are in no rush to complete it (as these things take some time) then build your own dream car from a good donor and start from scratch. 

Both have vastly different cost & time implications, both will still probably end up looking and driving more or less like a 911

[DJM]

Did Simonoz blue targa car sell?  It looked like a no expense spared conversion of a genuine 930 into a 3.4 N/A weapon.  Strip out targa gear and put in a bit of interior trim and now THAT'S a hot rod.   For $160k it makes sense relative to the other few around.  Disappeared from Carsales quickly so I assume someone agreed!

[hugh]

Did Simonoz blue targa car sell?  It looked like a no expense spared conversion of a genuine 930 into a 3.4 N/A weapon.  Strip out targa gear and put in a bit of interior trim and now THAT'S a hot rod.   For $160k it makes sense relative to the other few around.  Disappeared from Carsales quickly so I assume someone agreed!

+ 1! 

[symsy]

Tough question as both look pretty good and splitting hairs to choose...

...but you asked...

...for mine the blue ST replica. Is a Zag built car who do brilliant work. Is big buck build with the wide body flares. Based on a 1996 galvanised body which is a good start. I am a bit take or leave it on the 993 3.6 as it does create some awkward insurance / legal registration issues. Would be better with a strong 3.2. 

The orange car is nice and will make someone very happy but for $130k it has Nexan tyres, is a partial repaint not full windows out job, is not a galvanised body, is narrow body and has an interior that is confused between 74, hot rod and RS. 

But out for serious lookers there are two similar cars coming to market. Get out those check books 

Whats the insurance issues with the 993 3.6?

[Arnage]

I posted this a few days ago in the "Whats for sale in Australia" section.

"I also saw this car at Rennsport (blue car) & I thought it was sensational. I really like the hotrod/backdate thing.

The price level of these cars is difficult to call. On one hand you have the "can't build it for that" school of thought. Then you have the originality argument which says factory original cars should bring the highest prices. 

Put simply, I think its largely academic how much it costs to hotrod or backdate a car as that cost should have little to do with the cars actual value (read, over capitalise, personal taste). What I mean is, if you spend say $70k restoring a car back to original vs same $ on making a hotrod/backdate then original should command the higher value, even if you don't re-coupe the investment.

What we are seeing with the 2 examples currently available is they are priced way above anything we have seen for good or restored original cars. Well, I haven't seen any impact bumper cars north of $100k excluding 930's.

Just my thoughts & as I said I love the backdate/hotrod thing & the 2 cars available look brilliant, its just a matter of what a purchaser is prepared to pay."

Also exclude 2.7 Carrera's as well in the $100k plus above.

Whatever, the Blue one still wins for me.

Spannerhead, buy one (hotrod/backdate) that someone else has spent the cash on.

 

 

 

[Spannerhead]

I've been able to work out the blue zag and the orange Autohaus car but am unsure of the third, hence the request for links (makes it handy for others to comment too) 

You say regardless of money but surely you have a budget in mind? 

To what extent you regard a 'hot rod' would also be helpful (just a look or complete engine, mech etc.) 

Keeping it simple, if a car come up that's 70-80% what you like buy it and add your own touches + enjoy. If your happy to proceed with an 'open chequebook' and are in no rush to complete it (as these things take some time) then build your own dream car from a good donor and start from scratch. 

Both have vastly different cost & time implications, both will still probably end up looking and driving more or less like a 911

The 3rd one was the light blue 930 converted to an rsr . I did not know it had gone, sorry. As to budget I was working on the prices of these cars, 160k being the high point. I just returned from Europ and had been watching prices there , based on what I had seen over there , Aus prices high as they have become are still not bad. They are asking similar figures but in euro. 

I personlly prefer the older shaped 911, yes a specked out 993 turbo would be faster and handle better for less money, but is missing something in the curves and looks, weather building your own is sill possible for this kind of money (160k) I'm not sure, certainly doing it yourself seems possible , by the mechanic's I geuss not. Also if done your self you know exactly what you have, any second hand car is an unknown quantity regardless of who built it.

ower very own 964 RSR ( speed hunters)is a fine example of what can be done, a very impressive build ,that for me is just about the perfect 911!

[clutch-monkey]

 

Whats the insurance issues with the 993 3.6?

yeah this confuses me, never had insurance issues with my conversion, nor has ferds

[Spannerhead]

Just to clarify the 964 I was referring to is the Skunk works, witch to me is maybe the perfect balance , beautiful  looks and refined mechanics . I would like to know how much was invested in that build and what it would be worth in the current market ?

[symsy]

Lots$ would be the answer

[Mike D'Silva]

Just to clarify the 964 I was referring to is the Skunk works, witch to me is maybe the perfect balance , beautiful  looks and refined mechanics . I would like to know how much was invested in that build and what it would be worth in the current market ?

What do you think the engine work is worth alone?

I'm starting to like the idea of hanging onto my red car, and would like a lot more engine performance...

[Coastr]

At what point does it pay to take a convertible and weld a roof on?

Case in point:

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/west-perth/cars-vans-utes/1979-porsche-911-coupe/1085000073

Car is messed with way beyond original spec so perfect hotrod.  If you wanted to get a 964 look and a turbo with G50 in an early body...well look here - he says 500 hp and even if only half right still a good starting point.

It must be cheaper to find and weld on a roof (bonus : add cage in before hand for stiffness) than to buy a bog stock coupe and start from nothing.   If you did it right I'm sure nobody would be able to tell the difference.  You could go cheap/race car fancy and get a fibreglass roof with a cage underneath for strength.  If the convertible top is in good condition you can probably sell to offset costs as well.  

With the massive price difference between coupes and convertibles it must start making sense at some point.

[Spannerhead]

There is a thread on Pelican where some one did weld a roof on a convertible and if I remember claimed it made a stiffer car because convertibles are braced in other places than a coup ? Not sure how true or how practical it would be. But from cost point it might make sense assuming you can weld.

[Coastr]

Yes, they do have more bracing, and you could put a better cage in.

i haven't welded for many a year but if give it a go if I had the time and materials.  Worst case you cut it back off and put the convertible top back on!

better than rust repairs if you ask me.

[JV911]

 

Whats the view on the value of a good worked 964 vs 993 motor in terms of price?

3.9 with ITBs, gt3 crank, pauter rods etc is roughly 75-80k. Minus the crank and 3.9 P&Cs and you have something like mine.

Lots$ would be the answer

correct but i would do it again in a heartbeat. Mind you it would cost a lot more given the value of the A$ and donor cars compared to this time last year