Locally delivered Vs Inported

[ANF]

Well, my biggest gripe and it is a big one, is that no-one has picked up on the thread title typo!! INported.... come on chaps help solve the real issues.....

[Buchanan Automotive]

Some insight into what we have seen here over the past 22 years, and even beforehand when Bruce worked for SVM is that 99% of all imports do not stand up to the condition to Aus delivered cars, Its fairly obvious that UK, HK and most euro country cars are going to have significantly more corrosion in comparison. Have we seen Aus delivered cars with corrosion, sure, but to the degree of UK import, No Way! Im not just saying this as an average either, In all these years we have had 1 good late 1980's car, just happened to be a 928 with very low kms(from memory it was below 5000miles) which was in good condition. It was not as good as our equivalent Aus delivered car with the same Kms. 

Im sure there could be some nice early, up to the 1990's cars still in terrific condition over there but its going to be hard to find. As of recently, and we put it down to the boom going on with 911 values, we have had more then a handful of customers (one of these customers even purchased 2 Porsches from the UK) import cars from overseas. The UK seems to be the easiest to import from as they usually speak English and a lot of brokers are willing to help with the process. Not one of these cars, 8 in total, stack up to the equivalent kms car delivered here. All with corrosion, all had PPI's done at a few different Porsche specialist shops over in the UK and not only that but the PPI's usually come through relatively good flying colours. The reason for this is that even Porsche specialist shops over there are very use to seeing this corrosion and it s a normal everyday thing to them and they tick it off as usual. We as specialist in Aus can count ourselves lucky as in comparison working on these cars is straight forward.

A few basic examples, one of these cars is a very late model 944 turbo, body was reportedly in quite good shape with zero rust penetration. It got here and a whole side sill was full from the inside out, fuel lines from back to front looked like fairy floss, Another was a 928, these have lower suspension pins that on Australian cars you can remove by hand. This one was so seized that even acetylene would not budge it and new complete 2nd hand assembles needed to be sourced. To be honest i could go on forever, The downside is that we don't soak up this extra labor needed to work on these imports, the owner pays for it and this case if its your car then its you. People know this, its very common knowledge.

Unless you personally go to the country of origin of the car you want to buy and check it yourself then i can never recommend importing one, particularly on someone else's opinion of it.

Regards

Sean

[SimonN]

Anybody who buys a car that they cannot view the car in person without having proper photos taken during the PPI so that you aren't relying on the opinion of somebody else is asking for trouble. While I agree with Sean that some specialists will consider a certain amount of corrosion on a UK car normal and acceptable, the ones I would use consider concourse as the benchmark. But then again, of all the Porsche specialists in the UK, which is getting close to 100 when I last checked, there are probably only 3 I would trust to do an inspection for me.

Sean's comments still ultimately agree with mine - you buy on condition.

Even if you had a concourse import, it would sell at a discount to an Oz delivered concourse car. If corrosion really was the concern, there would be no difference in price between the 2.

[Nicco]

Sorry, have been trying to find a way to edit and update for days!  

Nicco,

i'd wait for a S the difference is chalk and cheese, and probably S will be more sort after down the track. Just my 2

[hugh]

Sean's comments still ultimately agree with mine - you buy on condition.

 Your priceless......................

[tazzieman]

As I said somewhere else here, half of Sydney's cars live within 5ks of salt water

And the other half within 5ks of 38 degrees C?

[sandy468]

Would feel like 38 to you Tassie but in reality not

[tazzieman]

38 is 38 is 38. I can tolerate it as much as any man , but choose not to! The hot weather and all the joy it brings is responsible for much sand in the crotch online posting I suspect. And also much of the trouble in the middle east. 

Taz is just chilled man.

[Pork Chops]

 Your priceless......................

lols. Most of the time, most of most of the time Aus cars > rusty imports.

[Pork Chops]

i.e. are we comparing a commodity type car like an old SC  

 

What what what???

[Plugger2]

Here Here. My UK 997.2 certainly doesn't have any rust or corrosion issues. And if I was selling it today (which I'm not) it would be at market value because the first person to get it checked over (as I did) would realise it's in perfect order, so where it came from is irrelevant.

It's not just the physical condition (e.g., corrosion) that determines the price. There are other market considerations. The very fact it is an import _narrows_ the market considerably when coming time to sell it. Many people (such as myself) would not seriously consider buying a non-Aus delivered car -- unless it was an absolute screaming bargain. Why? The hassle factor when it comes time to sell, for a start. Why? Many people (such as myself) would not seriously consider buying a non-Aus delivered car...

Unless you never intend to sell an asset, the dollar value of the asset when you buy will not only depend on the direct utility to you, but also on what you you believe will be the future value of the asset to others when it's time to sell.

So here's another example: Would you consider buying a repaired write-off that had been registered on the WOVR register? If you would, would you price it only on condition, i.e., you'd be willing to pay the same amount as for another car in comparable condition that wasn't on the WOVR?

No, I didn't think so. The WOVR car may have been repaired to a fully professional standard, but, regardless of how well it is subsequently looked after, it will always be a WOVR car, and will never command the same price as a non-WOVR car in similar (or, realistically, even worse) condition. And, similarly, when it comes time to sell, it will be in a much narrower market.

Understanding why this is may help you understand the market realities of selling a non-Aus delivered vehicle in the Australian second-hand market. Condition is important, but of two cars in equivalent condition, the import will not command the same value as the Aus delivered vehicle.

If a vehicle is depreciating in value, this may be to your advantage. A lower entry price would suggest a lower level of depreciation in absolute terms. Conversely, in an appreciating market, the lower entry and exit price could work to your disadvantage. Another thing to take into account, perhaps.

[GC9911]

I declare this thread exhausted!! (beaten to death, dragged over hot coals, whipped to within an inch of its life, you are all free to go now, move on, nothing more to see here, go back to your homes & families).

[SimonN]

Plugger2

While I totally agree with you about the reality that imports sell for less than oz delivered cars, I think you are mistaken on a few points you make. First, you are at no disadvantage with an import in an appreciating market. If the Oz delivered cars go up 25%, so will the imports. The gap between them will remain constant. I also believe that when cars go down in value, imports get hit hard, because the local cars seem more affordable - why buy a dodgy import when an Oz car is now affordable.

I also disagree with you on how easy or difficult it is to sell imports. Priced at the right discount, I believe they are easier to sell than Oz cars. By way of example, at the moment it seems fairly hard to sell an average mileage, reasonable condition Oz delivered 3.2 Carrera for $110-115k. Yet the import equivalent at $85k sells very fast. (yes, I do follow this very closely because I keep getting unsolicited offers on my dirty old import). The market is smaller, but the number of cars available is also a lot smaller. 

But, anybody who thinks they are going to get the same or even close to the price of an Oz delivered car for an import is dreaming. For me, this is wonderful. It means my motoring is so much cheaper than those who insist on buying Oz cars. Although I think it is crazy and illogical, I hope the difference in value remains forever.

[LeeM]

Well, my biggest gripe and it is a big one, is that no-one has picked up on the thread title typo!! INported.... come on chaps help solve the real issues.....

I had noticed that, though I didn't want to be a grammar nazi

[Joshstix]

Long story short.  Good cars are good, sh!t cars are sh!t.

 

A lot of people believe imports are the latter, whether its true or not has SFA to do with what people believe.

[Pork Chops]

Plugger2

While I totally agree with you about the reality that imports sell for less than oz delivered cars, I think you are mistaken on a few points you make. First, you are at no disadvantage with an import in an appreciating market. If the Oz delivered cars go up 25%, so will the imports. The gap between them will remain constant. I also believe that when cars go down in value, imports get hit hard, because the local cars seem more affordable - why buy a dodgy import when an Oz car is now affordable.

I also disagree with you on how easy or difficult it is to sell imports. Priced at the right discount, I believe they are easier to sell than Oz cars. By way of example, at the moment it seems fairly hard to sell an average mileage, reasonable condition Oz delivered 3.2 Carrera for $110-115k. Yet the import equivalent at $85k sells very fast. (yes, I do follow this very closely because I keep getting unsolicited offers on my dirty old import). The market is smaller, but the number of cars available is also a lot smaller. 

But, anybody who thinks they are going to get the same or even close to the price of an Oz delivered car for an import is dreaming. For me, this is wonderful. It means my motoring is so much cheaper than those who insist on buying Oz cars. Although I think it is crazy and illogical, I hope the difference in value remains forever.

Simon.  Please.  Stop.  Let the thread die.  Mods, close it down.  Please.  Please.

[GC9911]

I declare this thread exhausted!! (beaten to death, dragged over hot coals, whipped to within an inch of its life, you are all free to go now, move on, nothing more to see here, go back to your homes & families).

Definition of insanity, keep doing the same thing & expect a different result, no one listens.

[TINGY]

Settle boys settle, my advice, sit back, grab a comfy chair and your favorite bevvy because this thread is like the Bold and the Beautiful, miss it for a month and you will come back to the same shite.

 

 

 

 

It is good to see the different opinions though, after all it's a free world and opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one.

Don't know what's happening with this quoting caper.

 

[Plugger2]

Will this thread never end?!?

Well, not if people keep posting comments about wanting the thread to end.

In any case, I think it's fair to say that most people are rusted on in their opinion about UK imports.

[ANF]

You can flog a dead horse......

[SimonN]

The thing I have never understood on forums is people who post "let the thread die" or "will it never end". If you don't like the subject matter, or the fact the thread keeps going, don't look at the thread. It really is that simple. Surely the insanity is to keep looking and posting when you want it to die, or you don't think it is going anywhere. When i see a thread i think has run its course, become a circle jerk and should die, I simply stop clicking on it. Then you leave it to those who, even misguidedly, have an obsession about the subject. If nobody posts, it dies anyway, because even on forums, it takes 2 to argue (actually, I know a few on other forums who will continue the argument with themselves)

[symsy]

Maybe as 2016 closes .. we will stop the AUS vs Other debate and the lets talk value but dont sell cos your a flipper outlook...

Look if you buy a UK car you know your probably getting a faster model.. less metal in them ..  Thats a plus 

Your probably gonna get a better interiors too .. cos the Aus delivered ones suck up against the english options. 

In reality and I think JB has said this before .. there are pockets  of the country and places where they dont salt the roads and many people do literally take their cars off the road for the winter seasons.  As they did in switzerland and other euro locations.

You have to remember that for AC cars as example the 80s-early 90's were the boom days ..and people didnt also give a shit , they would just get another,  the age of the Yuppie consumerism was born.  God knows I think out of the 300 dealers on our trading room floor there were 120+ 911's parked downstairs and many of the F&^%cked , by fuelled drinking nights and partying and not maintained..and regularly crashed into underground carparks and alike.

On my last visit 3 months back , I looked at a dozen AC cars and I think that age has become the equaliser .. many cars could no longer hide the fact they have been unloved and not rested , but on the other hand many owners had in the booming market actually put the money into bringing theses cars back to the former glory and I saw more cars there that I would buy this time round than i would here… and they were significantly cheaper in some areas .. I was looking at SC's , 3.2's SSE's 930's  this time round.

I have also imported non Pcars from Japan.. three exactly the same cars .. all from similar areas.. one was a seive and the other had flat paint for some reason and the metal was fatigued topside rather than under.. the last not a spot of rust and its being painted as we speak and is perfect.. go figure.

I personally will continue to select and import as the gene pool is way too limited here and really on many levels without fuelling the debate of AUS vs Other , this is only a how safe do I perceive my money to be statement or measure…. in newer cars..

The older ones .. I think on some levels are traded as antiquities now , its a global market and there is a better qualitive and quantitive structure comming into place in ways cars are reviewed in my own experience

So my tip , try to get to know who the owner truley was , see if the cars had a pampered life or if its a pass around car that not of limited numbers you might as Mr Buccanans suggested get yourself a load of trouble..  

It sounds self righteous and  I know some others have imported on the forum .. but like the varied discussions on forums , there are as I call em many couch refrees shouting about things they have never touched.. or about a game they have never played in.

Go find the people who are doing it and talk to them, take a $1200 flight to LA and or Japan and go look …  its a great investment.. if you buying a premium car and there is an opportunity it will be far greater even if you take your airfare out of the price difference.

I promise its like reading the travel section of the newspaper vs actually sitting in the Tokyo sushi bar.. not quite the same.

England can also be quite nice in the summer .. but watch out they do put a lot of salt on the chips over there 

 

 

[tazzieman]

I actually read all of that Symsy! Good one.  I support the bit about travel ; if you spend too much on cars , there's nothing left for travel , yet travel is the great educator. Even if you sit in Gold Class posting on car forums , you learn something by getting your mind dirty with real travel. (Not talking about Noosa or Bali type travel).

My one regret on my deathbed will not be I didn't own an ZZZ car , it will be that I didn't get to see enough of the world. 

Oh and btw , yes England's a fine place..for a holiday, in the correct season! Don't leave it until too late or you'll miss the fish with them salty chips!

[symsy]

I actually read all of that Symsy! Good one.  I support the bit about travel ; if you spend too much on cars , there's nothing left for travel , yet travel is the great educator. Even if you sit in Gold Class posting on car forums , you learn something by getting your mind dirty with real travel. (Not talking about Noosa or Bali type travel).

My one regret on my deathbed will not be I didn't own an ZZZ car , it will be that I didn't get to see enough of the world. 

Oh and btw , yes England's a fine place..for a holiday, in the correct season! Don't leave it until too late or you'll miss the fish with them salty chips!

I actually read it three times for you TAZ.. trying to uplift my spelling .. grammar is a 2018 thing though

[tazzieman]

I actually read it three times for you TAZ.. trying to uplift my spelling .. grammar is a 2018 thing though

I had a cockney gramma , she wasn't too fussed about spelling , mind you people had dropped bombs on her during the big conflict . Lived to 96 the dear old soul, never drove a car. Neither did my mum , but she was a stickler for the spelling.