Locally delivered Vs Inported

[firstone]

I love this stuff very informative and slightly, (very) entertaining. 

Grandma sh1t me so I'm wrong all the time.

However, I feel very comfortable here.?

[Coastr]

I have a UK imported car.  It has corrosion problems despite being coddled.  Not the floor pans or anything like that - but exhaust brackets, suspension bolts, that sort of thing.  It only takes one salty road drive....and you never know when some council will decide to salt the roads so unless you park it all winter, you're doomed.

look at Pork Chops restoration thread.  Considered to be a rust free car but when the paint came off, oops.

i remember seeing a 635 chassis in my local BMW guys yard.  He bought it for parts.  It was Swiss cheese.  UK car.

The one positive UK cars have is that their interiors are generally in better condition.

not all UK cars are rusty.  However, sufficient numbers of them are rusty enough that being associated with the UK dents the value.  There are pristine UK cars about but they wear the stigma and get priced down accordingly.

oh, and insurance - lots of insurance companies will not cover a personal import, no matter if there is an equivalent local delivered car.  You have to go to Shannon's etc to get coverage.  Not a big deal but it is true.   Back in the day I was helping with a new underwriting system.  It had an input for 'second hand import / personal import'.  If that was true, no coverage.  Things have moved on somewhat but the big insurers still will not touch them.  It's because of unknown cost implications of parts differences.  Not a big issue for Porsches because most people are already using specialty insurers.

[SimonN]

oh, and insurance - lots of insurance companies will not cover a personal import, no matter if there is an equivalent local delivered car.  You have to go to Shannon's etc to get coverage.  Not a big deal but it is true.   Back in the day I was helping with a new underwriting system.  It had an input for 'second hand import / personal import'.  If that was true, no coverage.  Things have moved on somewhat but the big insurers still will not touch them.  It's because of unknown cost implications of parts differences.  Not a big issue for Porsches because most people are already using specialty insurers.

I find this really interesting. Am I just lucky or have the insurers made a mistake on my car? When i bought my import earlier this year, I shopped around for quotes, which i got from 4 or 5 different companies. Not one asked whether it was an import. The best by a long way was NRMA Veteran, Vintage and Classic Vehicle insurance, but it does have limitations such as recreational use only and limits on usage, but unless your car is a daily drive, it shouldn't be a problem. 

I suspect the market has changed a bit in the last few years. A friend is head actuary for one of the big insurers and he says that the Shannons market is seen as a key target. When i arrived in Oz 10 years ago with my RS, I had trouble getting quotes, not so much because it was an import but simply because many didn't cover older, valuable cars. Shannons really stood out then and made things easy, particularly when vaues increased and I needed to up the agreed value. The one thing I fortunately never found out aboit is what they bare like with claims.

As an aside, people think NRMA is expensive. Maybe I got lucky, but I have all my insurance with them which gives me extra discounts and I cannot find a company cheaper other than $5 on one of the green slips! In total I have 4 cars, main house and 2 rental properties with them and every year I price check and every time, NRMA is cheapest. And their claims service is first rate. In general, i used to hate insurance companies but for me, NRMA have changed all of that.

[Plugger2]

I've had dealings at the "pointy end" with both Shannons and NRMA. The experiences were polar opposites: Shannons being incredibly accommodating and easy to work with, while NRMA tried every tactic to cut corners and costs on the repairs.

They actually had a Legislative Council (NSW upper house) enquiry into NRMA's practices a few years back, and the effect it was having on the overall safety of vehicles on the road in NSW. I kid you not. I only found out about that _after_ I had my run-ins with them. They have had to modify some of their more extreme business tactics, but the corporate culture and philosophy remains in place, AFAICT.

In short I wouldn't insure a Hyundai with the NRMA, much less a Porsche!

(Apologies this has drifted off-topic, but I just can't let it pass if anyone compares Shannons and NRMA in the same breath!)

[SimonN]

^

I am completely mystified by the comments about NRMA. I have 4 "high end" cars insured with them and over the last 10 years, have needed to claim 4 times on 3 different BMW's. twice we were not at fault and on the other 2 occasions, once was my fault and once my wife. In each case, NRMA could not have been better to deal with and with one of the claims, the repairer even stated that most other insurers would not have allowed them to go as far as they did with the repair (new panels vs repair). the claims process was very simple. With one of the claims, when i was rear ended while towing a trailer, they initially wanted to pay the then value of the 5 year old trailer which they set at about 50% of the new cost. I complained that meant I couldn't be put back to the position I was in before the accident, because you cannot buy s/h box trailers and within 2 hours, they authorised a payment for the cost of a new trailer. I realise that they would claim it off the other insurer in that case, but to me, that has typified my experience with them.

I believe the biggest factor isn't the insurer but the repairer. The way a repairer talks to an assessor has a big part in the whole piece. With the BMW's, I only go to BMW a approved repairer, because I know that to keep that status, they have to work to a certain standard, which means that an assessor cannot say something is "good enough" if it doesn't meet the BMW standard. If it does meet that BMW standard, it should be good enough for anybody. 2 of the cars involved have since been traded with BMW and in both cases, i have disclosed the repairs (after initial valuation!) and been told that as it was done by a BMW authorised repairer, it makes no difference to the value.

For more generalist body shops, maintaining insurer recommended status is the important factor and as such, they are far more likely to go with what they are told by the insurance company. This is why an insurer will do all they can to steer you to their preferred bodyshop. NEVER go to a bodyshop that your insurer suggests you use or tries to get you to use.

I haven't had to make a claim on the Porsche, but if I did, i would be researching who to use very carefully, for the above reasons. You need to make sure that the repairer isn't reliant on the insurer and has a higher standard they have to follow, other than just their professional pride.

Even though I recommend NRMA, I don't trust them, but then again, I don't trust any insurer. I believe all will do whatever they can to keep claim costs down and that while it shouldn't be so, we as the insured need to be mindful of this and ensure we do everything to safeguard against this.

As an aside, we have also made 2 claims on household insurance. In one case, my wife spilled her glass of wine over her laptop, killing it, while the other was for an expensive glass table which shattered. In both cases, NRMA paid in full, very quickly and without any issues.

Thoe are my personal experiences. I couldn't be happier and their quotes are always the best. I suspect that like everything, there are good and bad experiences. maybe I have got lucky, or maybe others have been unlucky.

[Plugger2]

Two reports on NRMA Insurance business practices from the STAYSAFE NSW Parliamentary Commitee:

 

STAYSAFE66 (2005) Repairing to a price, not a standard: Motor vehicle smash repairs under the Insurance Australia Group (NRMA Insurance) Preferred Repairer Scheme and its implications for roadworthiness, crashworthiness, and road safety.

 

STAYSAFE 71 (2006) The crash testing of repaired motor vehicles: Further report of an inquiry into motor vehicle smash repairs under the Insurance Australia Group (NRMA Insurance) Preferred Repairer Scheme and its implications for roadworthiness, crashworthiness, and road safety.

 

From the Executive Summary of the STAYSAFE 71 report:

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/committees/DBAssets/InquiryReport/ReportAcrobat/5551/STAYSAFE 71 - Crash testing repaired motor vehicle.pdf

 

             At the request of the New South Wales Legislative Assembly in October 2005, STAYSAFE examined motor

              vehicle smash repairs under the Insurance Australia Group (NRMA Insurance) Preferred Repairer Scheme,

              and assessed specific safety, or risk issues, namely:

                 

              • the web-based repair management system introduced by Insurance Australia Group, where repairers submit

              quotes for jobs based on a written scope of works prepared by an assessor employed by Insurance Australia

              Group and inspecting electronic images of damaged motor vehicles, rather than physically inspecting the

              damaged vehicle;

 

              • if cost cutting and unsafe repair practices are associated with Insurance Australia Group’s imposition of

              financial penalties if damage to a motor vehicle is later uncovered that was not apparent through the internet

              photographs;

 

              • if safety is compromised by the use of second hand parts in the repair of motor vehicles; and

 

              • the qualifications needed by assessors employed by Insurance Australia Group to effectively examine,

              document and photograph   damage to motor vehicles, and their role in managing the repair process to a

              damaged motor vehicle.

 

              STAYSAFE found that the web-based repair management system introduced by Insurance Australia Group

              was an unsafe system in its current form and operation. A striking feature of the inquiry was the inability of

              Insurance Australia Group to provide any definitive research documentation regarding its consideration of

              potential safety issues associated with the web-based repair management system and its Preferred Repair

              System prior to the commencement of the system.

 

              STAYSAFE found that the development of appropriate safety policy and regulatory frameworks for the smash

              repair industry and the motor vehicle insurance sector has lagged, and it appears that there can be a wide

              disparity between what is understood about the smash repair industry by motor vehicle insurers and

              government agencies, and the leading edge exponents of modern motor vehicle smash repair techniques,

              processes and methods.

TL;DR version: If you want your car repaired to a safe and professional standard, give NRMA Insurance a miss.

[SimonN]

I am at a loss to understand how you take 12 year old reports and say that it represents how a company works today. If you rely on 12 year old recommendations for products or companies, you are asking for trouble and the same applies the other way around. Do you also think that NRMA did nothing in response to those reports?

Insurance companies don't repair cars. Body shops do. If you take a car to a body shop that will respond to the pressures from a particular insurer, you deserve all you get. Do you pick who services and otherwise looks after your car? There are good and bad places to go, so, if you are under no obligation to go to the one they suggest, why would you not go to a repairer you trust? I have always chosen my repairers based on my research and the recommendation of those I trust. I have never taken a car to the repairer recommended by the insurer. It doesn't matter who the insurer is, you would be a fool if you own a premium car and don't carefully choose who repairs it.

The seal of approval of an insurer is no guarantee of quality of repair. If you allow that as a factor in choosing repairer, more fool you. If I had a prang in my Porsche, i would probably go to a different body shop to the one I would use if i was privately having bodywork done. In the latter case, there is no insurer  to argue with and the repairer is solely accountable to me. In the case of an accident, and although i haven't researched this yet (and hope I won't need to) I would probably go to a Porsche approved bodyshop because the standard they have to work to is laid down by porsche. If they deviate from that standard on a porsche, they can lose their accreditation. You therefore know that no insurance company can bully them into doing the wrong thing, or using second hand parts or anything else undesirable.

So with an insurer, I care about 2 things, other than premium.. First, do I have the choice of repairer. So long as i do, i feel protected, because I believe i know enough to choose a repairer who will only do the job properly. The second thing i care about is the claims process and how well everything is handled. For me, NRMA lets me choose my repairer and having had 4 claims, I can say the process and speed is first rate. With NRMA I can use the repairer i want, the process is quick and easy and the premiums are great. 

I don't think anybody should be surprised that a major insurer who has a problem in 2006/6 has changed things around by 2016. The shock would be if they had not. I also note that even Choice magaizine recommends NRMA today. I think it is a pretty safe bet they don't work the same way as they used to, but if people want to pay more than they need to, based on outdated info, that's fine by me 

 

[Pork Chops]

P5. Someone update me on what new stuff we've uncovered. I see there are some sizeable posts here so must be something.

[clutch-monkey]

P5. Someone update me on what new stuff we've uncovered. I see there are some sizeable posts here so must be something.

imports are still worth less for a variety of reasons. Same as page 1. Carry on 

[Stew F]

Are you blokes still banging on about this? 

Long story short.  Good cars are good, sh!t cars are sh!t.

A bit like people.

[sandy468]

Is NRMA locally delivered or inported?

[Plugger2]

I am at a loss to understand how you take 12 year old reports and say that it represents how a company works today. If you rely on 12 year old recommendations for products or companies, you are asking for trouble and the same applies the other way around. Do you also think that NRMA did nothing in response to those reports?

I know they did. They had to modify their most egregious business practices. But I can also verify that their underlying philososphy of repairing to a price rather repairing to a standard has not changed one iota. NRMA keeps premiums down by keeping repair costs to the absolute minimum they can get away with. And unfortunately, for the unwary, they are still getting away with a lot, way more than they should be. Think of leopards and spots.

The bottom line is that there are times when it makes sense to pay the premium to get a quality product, and other times it makes sense to chase the best price, That's true whether you are buying a locally delivered vehicle vs an import, or shopping around for car insurance to cover whatever you've decided to buy. 

That last bit was gratuitous just to attempt to return to the main topic. But let's respectfully agree to disagree: You like UK imported Porsches and NRMA insurance. I prefer Aus delivered Porsches and Shannons. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, as our US cousins would say.

[SimonN]

I am sorry to drag this on, but I am actually trying to learn something here. Are you saying that if I am insured with NRMA and I get my BMW's repaired by a BMW approved workshop (there aren't many around), they will repair my car to a different standard than they would if i was insured with somebody else. or, far more relevent to this conversation, if I take my Porsche to a Porsche approved bodyshop, they will work to a different standard because I am with NRMA

That last bit was gratuitous just to attempt to return to the main topic. But let's respectfully agree to disagree: You like UK imported Porsches and NRMA insurance. I prefer Aus delivered Porsches and Shannons. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, as our US cousins would say.

Agree to disagree. I like paying less for the same thing, you like to pay more 

[Plugger2]

I am sorry to drag this on, but I am actually trying to learn something here. Are you saying that if I am insured with NRMA and I get my BMW's repaired by a BMW approved workshop (there aren't many around), they will repair my car to a different standard than they would if i was insured with somebody else. or, far more relevent to this conversation, if I take my Porsche to a Porsche approved bodyshop, they will work to a different standard because I am with NRMA

I am saying that trying to get it repaired by the workshop of your choice will be the first battle. Then getting them to agree with the workshop's quote for what will be approved for repairs will be the next battle. Workshops hate dealing with NRMA for a reason. 

This is only if it's coming out of NRMA's pocket, of course. If the other insurance company is actually paying for the repairs, NRMA will be all sweetness and light. Why wouldn't they be?

As for value vs price, Oscar Wilde said it best: "He is the sort of fellow who knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing."

[SimonN]

I am saying that trying to get it repaired by the workshop of your choice will be the first battle.

4 cars repaired in 9 years and never had an issue going to the workshop of my choice. In fact, they made zero effort to steer me towards any particular workshop. Always used BMW approved workshops. And I cannot see how any insurer can get a top marque approved workshop (such as BMW, Merc, Porsche) to do anything but work to the standard set by that marque. I would be concerned with cheaper brands and non affiliated workshops that I didn't know, particularly ones "approved" by an insurer, but i am suspicious of all insurers in that regard.

It's really interesting to me that the past of NRMA seems to have really set minds against them. I will have to do some more research just to check I haven't been the luckiest person ever with my experiences to date.

[KGB]

I've had a Bavarian marque repaired by their own body shop, and 18 months later issues came to the surface highlighting the repair was not carried out in accordance with the manufacturer's spec or the quote. 

Always used BMW approved workshops. And I cannot see how any insurer can get a top marque approved workshop (such as BMW, Merc, Porsche) to do anything but work to the standard set by that marque. I would be concerned with cheaper brands and non affiliated workshops that I didn't know, particularly ones "approved" by an insurer, but i am suspicious of all insurers in that regard.

 

I'm suspicious of everyone in the repair daisy chain.  Panel biz...

 

[Plugger2]

It's really interesting to me that the past of NRMA seems to have really set minds against them. I will have to do some more research just to check I haven't been the luckiest person ever with my experiences to date.

It's not a matter of luck, it's just that you haven't been in the situation yet where NRMA are actually paying for the repairs, rather than the other insurance company. Chalk and cheese. And for your sake, I hope you never have to be in that situation...

I've had a Bavarian marque repaired by their own body shop, and 18 months later issues came to the surface highlighting the repair was not carried out in accordance with the manufacturer's spec or the quote. 

I'm suspicious of everyone in the repair daisy chain.  Panel biz...

 

You're absolutely right, it is a minefield. But there are some good repairers, and there are some good insurance companies out there. Shopping for either based on price alone is a recipe for disaster, however.

[StevepGT3]

Talking to high end independent repairers will get you the answers you seek, as to which insurance company`s to avoid.

[SimonN]

It's not a matter of luck, it's just that you haven't been in the situation yet where NRMA are actually paying for the repairs, rather than the other insurance company. Chalk and cheese. And for your sake, I hope you never have to be in that situation...

I have, twice, both my wife's fault (and she says I am the fast driver likely to have an accident! lol) In both cases I didn't notice any difference in attitude or process from when somebody else hit our cars

Talking to high end independent repairers will get you the answers you seek, as to which insurance company`s to avoid.

This is my next step, when i have some time on Thursday. I will report back!

[OZ930]

If a Porsche was Australian delivered new, then exported to NZ for a couple of years, then imported to Australia, is it still Oz delivered or an import ?

I came across a 930 with this history.....should have bought it.

[SimonN]

If a Porsche was Australian delivered new, then exported to NZ for a couple of years, then imported to Australia, is it still Oz delivered or an import ?

I came across a 930 with this history.....should have bought it.

If you are buying, its an import. If you are selling, its locally delivered!

[Al]

Our Kia Sportage is Strayan delivered & matching numbers.

* end of non constructive random comment *

[Al]

So have I got this right? Please edit..

 

Australian Delivered Journey:
-----------------------------
Made in Germany by superior Artisans
Put on the boat to 'Straya'
Greeted by drunk wharfies who gave them a good flogging off the boat while eating and spilling meat pies, sauce and beer all over the interior. 
Put on trucks and delivered to the dealers where some apprentice gave it a wash introducing scratches
Some where bought by cashed up bogans

UK Import Journey:
------------------
Made in Germany by superior Artisans
Put on the boat to the Fatherland
Greeted by well spoken, clean uniform dressed educated wharf staff
Started and driven gently onto heated trucks with care, no food or drinks allowed inside new cars. They ate cheese, drank wine and discussed Shakespear in their designated breaks
These were all bought by the elite

(Then.. things take a little dive..)

Driven on salt roads
When they got a little rusty they sold them to 'Strayans'
But before sending them off they lit a fire and tossed in all the car's service records

[tazzieman]

So have I got this right? Please edit..

Shakespeare

[LeeM]

 

Some where bought by cashed up bogans

 

 Oi sport, I resemble that remark!