npvpositive Posted 17March, 2018 Report Share Posted 17March, 2018 Am thinking about making an offer on a car at a Porsche dealer. Asking price is ~$160,000 drive away. I'm curious whether people have found that the dealers are more willing to negotiate on the price of used cars than new Porsches? What's a realistic discount expectation? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troubleshooter Posted 17March, 2018 Report Share Posted 17March, 2018 9 minutes ago, npvpositive said: Am thinking about making an offer on a car at a Porsche dealer. Asking price is ~$160,000 drive away. I'm curious whether people have found that the dealers are more willing to negotiate on the price of used cars than new Porsches? What's a realistic discount expectation? Thanks! Considering all aspects of other ones for sale do you think it's a bargain? good price? fair price? overpriced? way overpriced? Are there plenty of other ones for sale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troubleshooter Posted 17March, 2018 Report Share Posted 17March, 2018 Sorry mate, just realised i jumped 2 steps forward in the negotiating scenario. I'm thinking they have more leeway with used cars, and "realistic" is so subjective to either party depending on the dealers thoughts and position on the car compared to yours ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npvpositive Posted 17March, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 17March, 2018 Purely guessing here, but if they're selling the car at a "headline asking price on road" of ~$160k then perhaps the asking price is made up of . . . Dealer cost/trade in value: about $140k Stamp duty payable by the dealer on sale: ~$7k Profit margin or available for negotiation with the buyer: $13k Again, just guessing, but surely the used car team would want to make at least $5k-$10k on each Porsche they sell. . . so perhaps the potential discount is between $3k - $8k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troubleshooter Posted 17March, 2018 Report Share Posted 17March, 2018 They operate on way larger margins than that. I'll just stab in the dark here, my general opinion, with no info on the dealer or the car etc etc except that it's 160k drive away. Dealer cost/trade in value would be no more than $120k. One piece of concrete I know is I was made their top offer from a Porsche dealer of $200k for a 993TT, that I sold for around 250k a week later after listing for one day on CS. Probs could have held out a month or two for around 270K, and have no doubt they would have listed it with a nice mark up to around $280 - 290k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 17March, 2018 Report Share Posted 17March, 2018 Them guys ain't dumb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLD Posted 17March, 2018 Report Share Posted 17March, 2018 Also consider getting things like scheduled services thrown in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknine01 Posted 17March, 2018 Report Share Posted 17March, 2018 1 hour ago, Troubleshooter said: They operate on way larger margins than that. I'll just stab in the dark here, my general opinion, with no info on the dealer or the car etc etc except that it's 160k drive away. Dealer cost/trade in value would be no more than $120k. One piece of concrete I know is I was made their top offer from a Porsche dealer of $200k for a 993TT, that I sold for around 250k a week later after listing for one day on CS. Probs could have held out a month or two for around 270K, and have no doubt they would have listed it with a nice mark up to around $280 - 290k I have a similar story with a P dealer in melbs offering me a max of 200k for my 993tt, "cause that's all they are worth" I was told. Sold a few weeks later for around 260 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nytelfer Posted 17March, 2018 Report Share Posted 17March, 2018 I am aware of a 981 Cayman GTS that PCB purchased for $144k that they subsequently listed it at $165k - I don’t know what they sold it for but it was listed for only a couple of days so I assume it sold for reasonably close to the asking price. I understand from talking to sales personnel who have worked at both factory owned and privately owned dealers that the former (PCM, PCSS etc.) will typically be more negotiable on used cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleazius Posted 17March, 2018 Report Share Posted 17March, 2018 Trade offers on 997.2 GT3 was $200k as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnage Posted 17March, 2018 Report Share Posted 17March, 2018 7 hours ago, npvpositive said: Purely guessing here, but if they're selling the car at a "headline asking price on road" of ~$160k then perhaps the asking price is made up of . . . Dealer cost/trade in value: about $140k Stamp duty payable by the dealer on sale: ~$7k Profit margin or available for negotiation with the buyer: $13k Again, just guessing, but surely the used car team would want to make at least $5k-$10k on each Porsche they sell. . . so perhaps the potential discount is between $3k - $8k? Dealers don't pay stamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
symsy Posted 17March, 2018 Report Share Posted 17March, 2018 If its just about price.. dont go there. Lets face it , if they ain't working on 20% as a goal , they ain't in business.. The costs to run a floor plan , may be minimal at the moment with interest rates low , but im not sure how that extends to second hand cars. They make money on new cars , some , as Porsche are about supporting extending their market. Porsche has nearly become the german Landrover of choice... becoming less and less a sports car company.. when you look at their sales. I think the thing to ask yourself with a dealer is .. am I getting anything extra... a service , a service program , a free set of steak knives , dinner with the receptionist , a detail, drive day, a set of tyres etc. There is also the value of what is being thrown in , not so cheap in many ways as we know there is large Ptax on most of what they do, keep that in mind. With new cars, newish cars , they are all candidates for warranty extensions.. im not sure anymore what the porsche approved thing is, but then again its a longtime since I bought from the showroom floor. Warranty is a great value proposition if thats in the bundle. My general call is they need to be competitive regardless and once there they gain a loyal customer for the other stuff.. The guys that are good , generally know they have a good supply on trades and will move good cars out to their loyal customers ver quickly. They will also keep the occasional show pony to mix up the floor full of Macans. Call that marketing overhead. With all that said , having a relationship with the service manager is real plus , I have had some great service from the floor team and some great ownership by Porsche Cars Australia via my dealer, in marginal areas on potentially faulty parts etc.. they replaced and met me in the issue. I think the old story and gravy train of make money on cars is pulling into the station. I think drive them hard , have fun and manage costs will be the new motoring mantra for many a Porsche owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Posted 17March, 2018 Report Share Posted 17March, 2018 I negotiated really hard on my GT4 from PCM. To the point of no deal, walk away. It was 18 months old, 8,000km and immaculate. Problem is it was the cheapest of 10 cars on market, was the spec and colour I wanted and had Porsche Approved history. So it was the one to buy and already sharply priced for some reason. I suspect they had had it for some time so my timing was good. It quickly became evident there was very little room to move on price. I squeezed a couple of % but in the end got them to service the car (wasn't due yet), remove the Martini stickers that we're all over it and throw in a Porsche Sport Driving School day at Phillip Island. I had already walked away from the dealership after hitting a wall on price so this deal was done an hour later over the phone. They were happy to let me walk if this deal didn't succeed. It was all done with a smile and maintaining a good relationship, appealing to them to do better and at all times they seemed interested in finding a solution but price alone wasn't the answer. Smart strategy if you can get away with it because now I'm telling you discount is unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoHeadsTas Posted 18March, 2018 Report Share Posted 18March, 2018 11 hours ago, Arnage said: Dealers don't pay stamp. Think they would on the sale price if they are selling as all up price, but no, they wouldn't pay on initial purchase as, if like Tassie, they pay a nominal transfer fee as a registered dealer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardWarrior77 Posted 18March, 2018 Report Share Posted 18March, 2018 Great advice @DJM. When you hit a wall in the negotiation on price, look for them to throw in extras. They'll be happy to keep you coming back. Easier to sell you something else once you're ready to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npvpositive Posted 18March, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 18March, 2018 14 hours ago, Arnage said: Dealers don't pay stamp. The $160k was a "drive away" price so in that situation the dealer is paying the buyer's stamp duty. Varies by state but would be about $7k of the $160k total. Carsales sent me one of those automated "special offer $3k off a car you've saved" emails . . so I know that $3k is available. Surely I could get at least $5k off the price?!! Slight complication is that I will be buying the car interstate and shipping it back to Sydney . . . means things like relationship with the service manager don't come into the "negotiation mix". My current thinking on negotiation possibilities is: 1. Price (duh) . . . 2. Extend the Porsche warranty beyond current 12 months offer 3. Maybe pay transport to NSW . . . but I think I'd rather control that myself (or perhaps drive the car home) 4. Porsche driving day or similar perks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstone Posted 18March, 2018 Report Share Posted 18March, 2018 I bought a car off a dealer in WA and the dealer arranged the freight. Unregistered. When I registered it in NSW the RTA now RMS employee tried to charge me stamp duty on the invoice total including the freight. She wouldn't back down without an invoice for the sale price only and the dealer wiped their hands. Not a whole lot more money, but seemed annoying to drop it for lack of insight ATT. The car was slightly damaged 900 bucks or so to fix. The dealer and transport denied any damage. Blamed each other. I suspect the transport was to blame as when asked them for the load report all I got where weird emails that contained nothing legible. Tainted the joy to start the journey. Just so you don't hit any snags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 18March, 2018 Report Share Posted 18March, 2018 2 hours ago, npvpositive said: The $160k was a "drive away" price so in that situation the dealer is paying the buyer's stamp duty. Varies by state but would be about $7k of the $160k total. Carsales sent me one of those automated "special offer $3k off a car you've saved" emails . . so I know that $3k is available. Surely I could get at least $5k off the price?!! Slight complication is that I will be buying the car interstate and shipping it back to Sydney . . . means things like relationship with the service manager don't come into the "negotiation mix". My current thinking on negotiation possibilities is: 1. Price (duh) . . . 2. Extend the Porsche warranty beyond current 12 months offer 3. Maybe pay transport to NSW . . . but I think I'd rather control that myself (or perhaps drive the car home) 4. Porsche driving day or similar perks. Don't forget the full fuel tank and you can always try and get one of the models on display as a last resort. Those have a sky high margin for the dealer and make a good trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tips Posted 18March, 2018 Report Share Posted 18March, 2018 I purchased the Macan at PCSS. At the time it was one of a few petrol models available and well optioned in my preferred colour. The car was 12 months old had literally just been traded on a Turbo on the Friday I bought on the Sat. I like @DJM was able to get a bit off and had them throw in Roofracks, extended warranty, drive day and it was serviced prior to pick up. For me it comes back to being the right car, the price your happy with and respectful negotiation should always get you where you want to be or walk away and keep looking. As far as post sales service it’s been first rate. U drive in anytime between services they top up the oil without a question, serve me a coffee whilst I am waiting. It’s back in for its annual this Friday and they are throwing me a loaner which I don’t have to take back until Sat as I won’t get there by 5pm. For me sometimes it’s more than just the purchase price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnage Posted 18March, 2018 Report Share Posted 18March, 2018 3 hours ago, npvpositive said: The $160k was a "drive away" price so in that situation the dealer is paying the buyer's stamp duty. Varies by state but would be about $7k of the $160k total. Carsales sent me one of those automated "special offer $3k off a car you've saved" emails . . so I know that $3k is available. Surely I could get at least $5k off the price?!! Slight complication is that I will be buying the car interstate and shipping it back to Sydney . . . means things like relationship with the service manager don't come into the "negotiation mix". My current thinking on negotiation possibilities is: 1. Price (duh) . . . 2. Extend the Porsche warranty beyond current 12 months offer 3. Maybe pay transport to NSW . . . but I think I'd rather control that myself (or perhaps drive the car home) 4. Porsche driving day or similar perks. Pretty sure the "sales contract" the buyer signs shows a section with "government charges" or similar. The total price (drive away) will remain the same as advertised, therefore the buyer pays the stamp duty & the dealer passes on the stamp to the government. its been a while since I was in the car game. It's just a matter of how you perceive the deal but tax is always the responsibility of the individual. also timing plays a part in how negotiable dealers are, end of month, quarter, half, year, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tips Posted 18March, 2018 Report Share Posted 18March, 2018 4 hours ago, Arnage said: also timing plays a part in how negotiable dealers are, end of month, quarter, half, year, etc Purchased a new merc for the mrs first week of December for a jan build March delivery and were able to get 10% of drive away price. Did play 2 dealers off against each other which I attribute to end of year financial incentives more than my negotiating power ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgy Posted 18March, 2018 Report Share Posted 18March, 2018 I haven’t purschased a used Porsche from OPC, but if it’s anything like new (which based on @DJM feedback, it is) a few percent is about it... also, if the car is interstate you could consider asking them to transfer it to a nsw dealer, if they happen to be factory owned dealers (ie Sydney south/Melbourne and Brisbane) that shouldn’t be a problem. But the fun is the road trip home always!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevMcRev Posted 18March, 2018 Report Share Posted 18March, 2018 Preferred colour? If it's red, tell em you really wanted blue...and if it's blue tell em you really wanted red! But of course you could put up with it for the right price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleazius Posted 18March, 2018 Report Share Posted 18March, 2018 16 hours ago, DJM said: I negotiated really hard on my GT4 from PCM. To the point of no deal, walk away. It was 18 months old, 8,000km and immaculate. Problem is it was the cheapest of 10 cars on market, was the spec and colour I wanted and had Porsche Approved history. So it was the one to buy and already sharply priced for some reason. I suspect they had had it for some time so my timing was good. It quickly became evident there was very little room to move on price. I squeezed a couple of % but in the end got them to service the car (wasn't due yet), remove the Martini stickers that we're all over it and throw in a Porsche Sport Driving School day at Phillip Island. I had already walked away from the dealership after hitting a wall on price so this deal was done an hour later over the phone. They were happy to let me walk if this deal didn't succeed. It was all done with a smile and maintaining a good relationship, appealing to them to do better and at all times they seemed interested in finding a solution but price alone wasn't the answer. Smart strategy if you can get away with it because now I'm telling you discount is unlikely. Try buying a new GT3 off them (them meaning any P dealer) that you’ve waited over a year just to get a chance at buying. Discount? Never heard of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozvino Posted 18March, 2018 Report Share Posted 18March, 2018 On 17/03/2018 at 2:05 PM, npvpositive said: Am thinking about making an offer on a car at a Porsche dealer. Asking price is ~$160,000 drive away. I'm curious whether people have found that the dealers are more willing to negotiate on the price of used cars than new Porsches? What's a realistic discount expectation? Thanks! it has many variables - what you are buying and when - plus, are you trading a vehicle? its really impossible to give you advice without knowing that Discounts on 718s are significant right now I would suggest, expect 10% plus, possibly higher as they just cant sell them. Macans, low volume cars not so great pushing hard on a discount. 911's and Cayenne are end of model life so you can push a little harder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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