Andy73 Posted 7May, 2018 Report Share Posted 7May, 2018 When i was growing up the 930 was the king of the Porsches. When the 993 twin turbo came out, it was everywhere! I mean every magazine ran stories / tests on this car. And the reviews from here and abroad were glowing. Again, the Turbo was the top of the pile. The king of 911's. Now yes, during this period there were Clubsport and Rennsport models (yes I know they now fetch incredibly high dollars - higher than their similarly aged Turbo brethren) but my sense is that these were seen to be much harder cars, much more motorsport focused, keeping the Turbo the car that held the public's imagination. What's happened? The Turbo now sits in the long list of 911 models but doesn't seem to carry the same cache it once did. Journos talk about it being a bit bland, a bit disengaged. It's the GT models are now blowing our minds. Is it just that the GT models offer a far more visceral experience? Is it the Nurburgring times? Is it the boy racer in us all, that loves the excessive body styling? Or am i wrong altogether? Considering the current lineup of cars, where's the Turbo sit on the desirability scale? does it now struggle to stand out in a sea of carbon splitters, rear wings and lap times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troubleshooter Posted 7May, 2018 Report Share Posted 7May, 2018 Ok I'm settling into the Jason recliner rocker for a few days to enjoy the banter on this. I too always thought, aside from the RS etc race models, that the 930 was king. Then in the late 90's I thought the 993TT joined it on the throne just being a great up grade on the essence of the beast. I still classed them differently from the RS style etc cars. With the 996TT and 997TT I thought they joined the throne nicely but as queens, and that's about when I stopped revering post mid 2000's WC turbos. A, because they pumped out plenty of them and B, because the GT cars took over the driver fun component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear924 Posted 7May, 2018 Report Share Posted 7May, 2018 I seems to me that the new turbo models face the problem of many newer performance cars, essentially that they are so fast and capable yet so limited in the real world due to speed limits, as to be verging on pointless. Therefore the tracked GT models attract those who want to really drive their cars on the track, and then the turbo becomes a high performance grand tourer which is less exciting to write and read about. Therefore my thought is that the turbo model probably won't appeal to the new Pcar purchasing enthusiast, and will instead appeal to someone who wants a fast Porsche, however isn't really a Pcar nerd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy73 Posted 7May, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 7May, 2018 1 minute ago, bear924 said: Therefore my thought is that the turbo model probably won't appeal to the new Pcar purchasing enthusiast, and will instead appeal to someone who wants a fast Porsche, however isn't really a Pcar nerd. That's an interesting point. To distinguish between the view of a Porsche buyer versus a Porsche enthusiast - they're not always the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear924 Posted 7May, 2018 Report Share Posted 7May, 2018 My guess based on nothing, is that 70% of new Porsche buyers are not enthusiasts. They're just people how weigh up price, prestige and what you get, and decide to purchase a Porsche after doing the crunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANF Posted 7May, 2018 Report Share Posted 7May, 2018 The problem Porsche face today is model proliferation! There are just too many different variants diluting the waters! The 930 to me is linked to the GT2 range of cars, they are the ultimate 911, but not the ultimate Porsche - that title belongs to the 959, Carrera GT and now the 918...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rego Posted 7May, 2018 Report Share Posted 7May, 2018 It's still desirable for people who want the most expensive one for the badge but I think people today don't care as much about cars making power as much as they used to. Power used to be impressive as it was hard to make but today it's readily available so it's become less important for people which is driving the move for Porsche to make cars like the Carrera T/911R and for people to buy older Porsches. The base 991.2 CS is turbocharged plus has the same power output as a 996 Turbo which people consider fast, the 991 Turbo has another 90kw on top of that and the 991 Turbo S has another 30kw on top of that again. Who is driving the 991 CS and saying "this thing needs another 120kw"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911 Snake Posted 8May, 2018 Report Share Posted 8May, 2018 If they offered the Turbo in a manual do we think it would be more desirable? Given the the holy grail track focused GT2RS is PDK only, maybe it would make the Turbo ans S more appealing and return it to some of its 80s and 90s glory status Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgy Posted 8May, 2018 Report Share Posted 8May, 2018 The 911 Turbo is still THE Mac Daddy of Porsche road cars... but I think it falls more into the realm of GT car, its comfortable, powerful, tear your face off acceleration and still quick around a track. Of course the comfort factor is at the cost of tactile driver feedback, so they do get accused of being a little "numb".. and that is exactly the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy73 Posted 8May, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 8May, 2018 Could it also be that in years gone by the Turbo – particularly the 930 – was the most outrageous-looking road going Porsche? Today, its styling is almost apologetic when compared with the GT3, GT3RS and GT2RS models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregAx Posted 8May, 2018 Report Share Posted 8May, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3legs Posted 8May, 2018 Report Share Posted 8May, 2018 Ok this is my opinion on the 930 v 993TT. I have never driven a 993 TT or any other Porsche Turbo (although I did Turbo my 924 after I blew the motor up but that is another story) but I have owned until recently a 930 so I can only give you my opinion about the 930. From what I've been told about the 993 TT is they are very fast (faster than a 930 that's for sure) however it's very clinical in the power delivery (again this is what I have been told) where as the 930 gives you nothing until it hits boost (approx 3800rpm) and then it's like hell has just been released (well that's how it felt to me the first time I drove one?). The 930 is a very involving drive and when you get everything working right (as in right revs for the corner etc) it's extremely rewarding. However getting on boost halfway through a corner can end in disaster especially if you're not on a racetrack. To me that is what is so magical (some say mythical) about owning a 930. Get it wrong and you're in a whole world of trouble but get it right and at least for one day you think you are a proper race driver. I've driven (and owned) various high performance cars (and motorcycles) but the 930 is the only vehicle that every time I got out of it after a "spirited" drive left my hands shaking, not through fear but the adrenaline rush. Now I'm sure I would get the same feeling from more modern Porsches I've yet to drive (especially a GT3) but I can only go on what I've driven so far. Also for me the 930 is more muscular whereas the more modern 911 is, well, designed to conform with rules and regs more than with their heart. Please, i'm not trying to offend anyone, that is just my opinion. Would I like a More modern Porsche in my garage? You betchya (well I guess I have. I went from a 1980 930 to a 1985 928?). 3legs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy73 Posted 8May, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 8May, 2018 7 hours ago, 911 Snake said: If they offered the Turbo in a manual do we think it would be more desirable? Given the the holy grail track focused GT2RS is PDK only, maybe it would make the Turbo ans S more appealing and return it to some of its 80s and 90s glory status Perhaps. Or to @bear924 point, is the buyer typically not an “enthusiast” and therefore more likely to want PDK (yes, I know - assumptions)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barks Posted 9May, 2018 Report Share Posted 9May, 2018 The 930 used to be the bedroom wall poster, the current turbo is too domesticated and refined to be a poster car. The GT2 RS is the new poster car for me. The 993 was on the cusp of being tamed but not quite - I drove one when they were released and it was a beast (it also had a manual gearbox). I've not driven the current turbo but the impression I get is its really really fast but also accomplished. The 930/993TT were fast and had an edge to them. It's now the RS cars that have taken that mantle...in my opinion! Good topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 9May, 2018 Report Share Posted 9May, 2018 930 was a standout for its era. GT2 is the only Turbo that has the same level of pedigree by today's standards. The use of the term "Turbo" is much like the use of the word "Carrera" now - it doesn't really account for much in terms of motor sport pedigree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy73 Posted 10May, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 10May, 2018 On 5/9/2018 at 1:12 PM, hugh said: 930 was a standout for its era. GT2 is the only Turbo that has the same level of pedigree by today's standards. The use of the term "Turbo" is much like the use of the word "Carrera" now - it doesn't really account for much in terms of motor sport pedigree. I think that's a good point. The Turbo - particularly the 930 - was once the car that delivered not only the performance but also the drama! In these times its surely the RS vehicles and even the standard GT3 that deliver this. Even in styling terms those cars are over the top, ostentatious head turners whereas the Turbo or Turbo S take a more subtle approach. Could the Turbo benefit from a more flamboyant approach to its styling, to further speak to its monstrous performance. After all, the 930, the 964 and the 993 (in fact even the 996) never looked like sleeper cars. They looked like they were the fast, crazy ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 10May, 2018 Report Share Posted 10May, 2018 51 minutes ago, Andy73 said: Could the Turbo benefit from a more flamboyant approach to its styling, to further speak to its monstrous performance. I'd say the new turbo's are totally on point. Subtle but plenty of clues to let you know what lies beneath if you know what to look for. They have a high level of design sophistication to them, I really hope that is something that is retained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy73 Posted 10May, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 10May, 2018 28 minutes ago, hugh said: I'd say the new turbo's are totally on point. Subtle but plenty of clues to let you know what lies beneath if you know what to look for. They have a high level of design sophistication to them, I really hope that is something that is retained. I don't disagree - I'm always in favour of less rather than more when it comes to body styling (yes, I'd buy the GT3 touring package). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 10May, 2018 Report Share Posted 10May, 2018 4 minutes ago, Andy73 said: I'm always in favour of less rather than more when it comes to body styling (yes, I'd buy the GT3 touring package). Less is more, I don't understand.... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy73 Posted 10May, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 10May, 2018 21 minutes ago, MFX said: Less is more, I don't understand.... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redracn Posted 10May, 2018 Report Share Posted 10May, 2018 I think Porsche are loosing the plot when it comes to the 991 turbo. While an ok sports car when you push the sport button they are nothing more than white goods when you start them up. Items like coasting, start stop, virtual gearbox, economy shift patterns and not being able to turn stability and traction control fully off are the exact opposite of what a sports car should be. The GT department is keeping the Porsche of old alive by shunning all of the above crap but for how much longer who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 10May, 2018 Report Share Posted 10May, 2018 5 minutes ago, Redracn said: I think Porsche are loosing the plot when it comes to the 991 turbo. While an ok sports car when you push the sport button they are nothing more than white goods when you start them up. Items like coasting, start stop, virtual gearbox, economy shift patterns and not being able to turn stability and traction control fully off are the exact opposite of what a sports car should be. The GT department is keeping the Porsche of old alive by shunning all of the above crap but for how much longer who knows. I see it as more of a limit of liability in terms of trying to protect every moron for killing themselves. Agree it ruins it for the rest of us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted 10May, 2018 Report Share Posted 10May, 2018 @Andy73 no they are not popular, no one wants them, they are worthless. Because im a nice guy and a man of the people, happy to help those members that are unfortunately stuck with these unpopular turbo cars, and take them off their hands for a generous small amount of money. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy73 Posted 10May, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 10May, 2018 4 hours ago, JB said: @Andy73 no they are not popular, no one wants them, they are worthless. Because im a nice guy and a man of the people, happy to help those members that are unfortunately stuck with these unpopular turbo cars, and take them off their hands for a generous small amount of money. ? Let's split them between us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 10May, 2018 Report Share Posted 10May, 2018 I'll take my GT3 with wing though. Always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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