Chasing 16" tyres

[modoz]

Hi All

I am trying to find the following tyres for my car

225/50 R16 - front

255/50 R16 - rear

All my local supplier can offer is Toyo R888's - these are overkill and not suitable for the purpose 
I am just looking for a good quality all weather tyre

any recommendations and known suppliers greatly appreciated

Best Regards

Mike

[LeeM]

 I doubt you'll find too many 255 rears, yet a quick search on tyresales.com.au finds Kumho has one called the Ecsta (out of stock though). 

 

3rd one down, but just noticed its 65 profile 

https://www.tyresales.com.au/tyres/kumho/ecsta_x3_kl17

[Stew F]

On 24/12/2018 at 23:14, LeeM said:

 I doubt you'll find too many 255 rears, yet a quick search on tyresales.com.au finds Kumho has one called the Ecsta 

I have those kuhmos, in 225/50-16. When new, they were a bit slippery. But after about 1000km, they were pretty good. 

[BlitzKonig]

Apparently there is words in the wind that Michelin are doing a set of tyres for Aircooled 911s... 245/50R16. The wait begins... 

[LeeM]

They won't be cheap 

[Buchanan Automotive]

Do you mean 245/45/16  ?   ,  the 245 / 45 / 16 size is the correct for the rears on the following 

911 Turbo ( 1986 - 1989 ) 

944 Turbo S

928 S4   &  928GT  up to and including 1991

A   245 / 50 / 16  tyre (  50 aspect ratio  ) raises the rear of the car & looks way too baggy  , but worse it raises the final drive ratio , slowing acceleration

[Dalai]

I have 245/45/16 rears and 205/50/16 fronts and was told the correct aspect ratios should be 50 and 55 respectively...

[carl888]

On 24/12/2018 at 16:42, modoz said:

Hi All

I am trying to find the following tyres for my car

225/50 R16 - front

255/50 R16 - rear

All my local supplier can offer is Toyo R888's - these are overkill and not suitable for the purpose 
I am just looking for a good quality all weather tyre

any recommendations and known suppliers greatly appreciated

Best Regards

Mike

Can you confirm the sizes, and what car is it for?  No Porsche uses a 255/50-16 rear, at least, one with its engine in the back!

On 09/02/2019 at 10:03, Dalai said:

I have 245/45/16 rears and 205/50/16 fronts and was told the correct aspect ratios should be 50 and 55 respectively...

That's correct for the front, a 205/55-16, the rears if you're running a 245 should be a 45-16.  If you're running a 225 on the rear, then a 50-16. (Assuming G series here)

Whoever told you that is a fool, it's information readily available in your owners manual.

[Dalai]

2 hours ago, carl888 said:

Whoever told you that is a fool, it's information readily available in your owners manual.

Does running 9" Fuchs on the back change things? As that is what I am rolling on. Since these aren't a stock size for my car I doubt that will be in my owners manual...

[PhilH]

Dalai,  I believe yours are from a Turbo  as per Bruce's comment.  Or that was the info I had :-)

[carl888]

21 hours ago, Dalai said:

Does running 9" Fuchs on the back change things? As that is what I am rolling on. Since these aren't a stock size for my car I doubt that will be in my owners manual...

Yes it does, but I still don't know the car.  Can you please let me know?  Looking at your avatar I'm guessing you are running 9" rears on the 3.0.  If that's the case and you have 6" or 7" fronts, you should be using the following:  205/55-16 on the front and a 245/45-16 on the rear.  If using a 7" or 8" rear then the size is a 225/50-16. 

BTW, if you're running 225 section fronts, I'd advise you to get rid of them and go back to the stock 205.  G series cars are totally horrid with that front size, increase in steering effort and no performance advantage that any lap time has been able to demonstrate.

[Dalai]

16 hours ago, carl888 said:

Yes it does, but I still don't know the car.  Can you please let me know?  Looking at your avatar I'm guessing you are running 9" rears on the 3.0.  If that's the case and you have 6" or 7" fronts, you should be using the following:  205/55-16 on the front and a 245/45-16 on the rear.  If using a 7" or 8" rear then the size is a 225/50-16. 

BTW, if you're running 225 section fronts, I'd advise you to get rid of them and go back to the stock 205.  G series cars are totally horrid with that front size, increase in steering effort and no performance advantage that any lap time has been able to demonstrate.

Thanks for the clarification. It is an 1984 with 7" fronts running 205's and 9" rears with 245's. Will have to check the fronts tonight as I think they might be 50 profile.

[Simonk]

I’ve just been through the process of buying 205/55/16 and 245/45/16 on 7s and 9s. Only tyres I could find in the country were Michelin MXX or something like that. Theyre a classic repro and apparently rubbish. Toyo, Pirelli, and Continental Aus distributors have decided the sizes arent worth importing. I tried to get on to Porsche Classic to find out what they could get in but gave up after too many calls. I ended up having to buy from overseas. My choices were Toyo R888R, Pitelli Trofeo R and Pirelli Pzero Rosso, the only proper street tyre. I went the Trofeo R, 2 weeks to get here and cheaper than when they were available here. $1,700! Still annoying thay you cant get anything here anymore.

[carl888]

Bizarre, the Michelin SX MXX3 N2 is available here from Stuckey's in the sizes you require.  It's a great tyre, TWI of 140 too.  I assume the person who told you they were rubbish hadn't tested them.  Being N2, Porsche have already approved them.

https://classic.michelin.com/en/Classic-Tyre-range/Pilot-SX-MXX3

 

You could try these too:

https://www.stuckey.com.au/Tyres/Classic-Tyres/ProdID/159

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I feel your pain about trying to buy tyres here that are readily available overseas. 

[Simonk]

15 hours ago, carl888 said:

Bizarre, the Michelin SX MXX3 N2 is available here from Stuckey's in the sizes you require.  It's a great tyre, TWI of 140 too.  I assume the person who told you they were rubbish hadn't tested them.  Being N2, Porsche have already approved them.

https://classic.michelin.com/en/Classic-Tyre-range/Pilot-SX-MXX3

 

You could try these too:

https://www.stuckey.com.au/Tyres/Classic-Tyres/ProdID/159

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I feel your pain about trying to buy tyres here that are readily available overseas. 

Perhaps I'm unreasonably skeptical about the classic range of Pirelli and Michelin tyres? I see a design from the 70s and 80s and assume that tyre design has progressed substantially since then. I understand they're using modern manufacturing materials but the thought of putting on a 40 year old design doesn't make sense to me but I don't know enough about tyres I guess. I couldn't find any glowing reviews of either of the above tyres which doesn't help. Are these tyres designed to perform as well as modern tyres like the Pzero Rosso and the Contisport (both tyres released for Porsche a couple years ago in classic sizes) or are they more for cruising to Cars and Coffee and looking good in garages and car shows?

[hugh]

12 minutes ago, Simonk said:

Perhaps I'm unreasonably skeptical about the classic range of Pirelli and Michelin tyres? I see a design from the 70s and 80s and assume that tyre design has progressed substantially since then. I understand they're using modern manufacturing materials but the thought of putting on a 40 year old design doesn't make sense to me but I don't know enough about tyres I guess. I couldn't find any glowing reviews of either of the above tyres which doesn't help. Are these tyres designed to perform as well as modern tyres like the Pzero Rosso and the Contisport (both tyres released for Porsche a couple years ago in classic sizes) or are they more for cruising to Cars and Coffee and looking good in garages and car shows?

The heritage tyres by Pirelli (Corsa?) & TB's by Michelin are in modern & very soft compounds. Both in my opinion are as equal (if not superior) to the high-end road spec tyre (Rosso/pilot sports etc.) but admittedly due to their softer compounds don't last as long. 

Typically, the compounds will account for more than the tread pattern, softer tyres will provide far better grip but the trade off is their life span (+ heat cycles). The issue that manufacturers have is finding the balance between wear rates and overall performance, hence why some lower range 'R' spec tyres will outperform a high spec "road tyre" in terms of grip but for a significantly shorter period of time (and at an optimal temp).  

Obviously conditions play a huge roll in this, ambient temps, amount of water on road/track etc. I've been hugely impressed by the TB's, especially in damp conditions - much better than the Pzero Rosso's I've been running on the GT3. They are $$$ though. 

[Simonk]

3 minutes ago, hugh said:

The heritage tyres by Pirelli (Corsa?) & TB's by Michelin are in modern & very soft compounds. Both in my opinion are as equal (if not superior) to the high-end road spec tyre (Rosso/pilot sports etc.) but admittedly due to their softer compounds don't last as long. 

Typically, the compounds will account for more than the tread pattern, softer tyres will provide far better grip but the trade off is their life span (+ heat cycles). The issue that manufacturers have is finding the balance between wear rates and overall performance, hence why some lower range 'R' spec tyres will outperform a high spec "road tyre" in terms of grip but for a significantly shorter period of time (and at an optimal temp).  

Obviously conditions play a huge roll in this, ambient temps, amount of water on road/track etc. I've been hugely impressed by the TB's, especially in damp conditions - much better than the Pzero Rosso's I've been running on the GT3. They are $$$ though. 

I've loved the R888s for the same reason you like the TB15s. Unfortunatley Toyo aren't making them anymore and R888R apparently aren't as good. We'll see how the Trofeo R go. 

[hugh]

7 minutes ago, Simonk said:

I've loved the R888s for the same reason you like the TB15s. Unfortunatley Toyo aren't making them anymore and R888R apparently aren't as good. We'll see how the Trofeo R go. 

Yeh, its a delicate balance. Will be interested to hear your feedback on the Trofeo's. 

[Peter M]

21 hours ago, Simonk said:

I’ve just been through the process of buying 205/55/16 and 245/45/16 on 7s and 9s.

Simon,

Wouldn't you actually have 7's and 8's?

[Simonk]

3 minutes ago, Peter M said:

Simon,

Wouldn't you actually have 7's and 8's?

Nope, 9s on the rear, as does the Turbo of the mid to late 80s

[carl888]

6 hours ago, Simonk said:

Perhaps I'm unreasonably skeptical about the classic range of Pirelli and Michelin tyres? I see a design from the 70s and 80s and assume that tyre design has progressed substantially since then. I understand they're using modern manufacturing materials but the thought of putting on a 40 year old design doesn't make sense to me but I don't know enough about tyres I guess. I couldn't find any glowing reviews of either of the above tyres which doesn't help. Are these tyres designed to perform as well as modern tyres like the Pzero Rosso and the Contisport (both tyres released for Porsche a couple years ago in classic sizes) or are they more for cruising to Cars and Coffee and looking good in garages and car shows?

I think you are unreasonably skeptical because your choice against the classic range of tyres was based on conjecture.

All inflatable tyres are based on a design from 1887.  Thanks Mr. Dunlop.  You could argue ad infinitum about old designs, we could perhaps start with the 911?  But back to tyres.  Tyre design has improved no question.  Mainly in these areas:  wet weather performance, rolling resistance, noise, life, cost of manufacture and environmental impact.

Hats of to Pirelli and Michelin for re-introducing these tread patterns with modern compounds.  Not only that, both manufacturers lowered the TWI to the point where it's close to an "R" compound.  In the dry, these compounds will generate more grip than a standard street tyre.  In the wet I would expect a modern tread design to out perform them in standing water  however I have done no testing nor have any data to substantiate this guess.

The biggest issue with standard issue 16" tyres these days is you have cars like the Mazda 3 being delivered ex factory with a 205/55-16.  Even a Pirelli or Michelin has a TWI up over 300 and a very soft sidewall and they just don't work when you put them on a 911.  And let's not mention the Maxxis/Roadstone and all the other cheap shit.

Porsche make life so easy for you by doing all the work, buy an N specification tyre and notice the TWI, the highest being 220 on the P-Zero Rosso.  Go classic and you'll get the TWI down to 140.  There are very, very few tyres not on the N list that test well BTW, the Bridgestone RE-003 is one (TWI of 220)

 

2 hours ago, Peter M said:

Simon,

Wouldn't you actually have 7's and 8's?

Depends on the diameter for a G series:

15"

7" front and 8" rear.

 

16"

6" front

7" rear, from 1987 MY on, 8"

 

930 and Turbo Look:

16"

7" front

8" rear, from 1987 MY on, 9" (With a tyre change to 245/45-16)

[turboT]

On 29/03/2019 at 13:58, hugh said:

Yeh, its a delicate balance. Will be interested to hear your feedback on the Trofeo's. 

as  you have said Hugh TB's have amazing grip in the wet. They also sandblast your car (and others following too closely behind  )  - way too soft IMO. Trofeo's have harder compound and last longer for sure.

Stuckys have them both. Great service

[vl gra]

I purchased P Zero's for my 930 not long ago in the above size's

 

[Simonk]

On 29/03/2019 at 20:19, carl888 said:

I think you are unreasonably skeptical because your choice against the classic range of tyres was based on conjecture.

All inflatable tyres are based on a design from 1887.  Thanks Mr. Dunlop.  You could argue ad infinitum about old designs, we could perhaps start with the 911?  But back to tyres.  Tyre design has improved no question.  Mainly in these areas:  wet weather performance, rolling resistance, noise, life, cost of manufacture and environmental impact.

Hats of to Pirelli and Michelin for re-introducing these tread patterns with modern compounds.  Not only that, both manufacturers lowered the TWI to the point where it's close to an "R" compound.  In the dry, these compounds will generate more grip than a standard street tyre.  In the wet I would expect a modern tread design to out perform them in standing water  however I have done no testing nor have any data to substantiate this guess.

The biggest issue with standard issue 16" tyres these days is you have cars like the Mazda 3 being delivered ex factory with a 205/55-16.  Even a Pirelli or Michelin has a TWI up over 300 and a very soft sidewall and they just don't work when you put them on a 911.  And let's not mention the Maxxis/Roadstone and all the other cheap shit.

Porsche make life so easy for you by doing all the work, buy an N specification tyre and notice the TWI, the highest being 220 on the P-Zero Rosso.  Go classic and you'll get the TWI down to 140.  There are very, very few tyres not on the N list that test well BTW, the Bridgestone RE-003 is one (TWI of 220

Carl, thanks heaps for taking the time to explain the classic range of tyres. I really didnt have much idea and find it hard to find useful info like you’ve provided above. It sounds like the MXX would have been a good option for me. I assume the Trofeo R wont last very long so I’ll keep the MXX in mind for the next set.

[Dalai]

I'd been planning on getting fresh rubber on my car soonish as the tread is getting down. But after @Simonk pointed out the age of my rears at DakDak last weekend, it has had me look at replacing them now far sooner than later even though they still handle okay.

I have a quote for the Michelin SX XX3's, but am looking at all available options. In doing so I have found Yokohama Advan AO52's in the necessary sizes - fronts 205/55/16 rears 245/45/16. Anyone have experience with the AO52's or can offer other suggestions?

Tyres I have recent experience with are Hankook RS4's on the MR2 Turbo and Bridgestone Potenza RE003's on the Forester Turbo. Preference is toward grippy tyre's over longer wearing.

Driving in the 911 is spirited road driving primarily in the dry, but would like a tyre that won't kill me if caught out in a shower while out in the hills.