Alternate Options

[Comяad1991]

If you are not living under a rock then chances are you should know the Used Porsche market in Australia is a little...special

Hi there, I'll cut it short, I have always had a classic 911 on the corner of my mind since my childhood. As I have become financially stable I have been hunting for a Classic 911 to enjoy. However, the Australian market for these have gone haywire and even rusted out rolling shells with no engine have gone for sale for around $34,000 AUD

Naturally I decided to look elsewhere, the United States and Europe and over there are projects within my budget however it depends on luck to to find "that one" and the obvious risks of being from the other side of the world.

My budget is $33,000 AUD (might not be realistic for today's prices though) and I really don't have any preferences besides it being a Pre-1995 Porsche 911. I don't mind if I have to get my hand greasy or of it is LHD or a Targa/Convertible .

My question is should I continue hunting in the Australian market or would an alternative options such as auctions or even countries like Japan be worth to consider? and if so can anyone provide me with useful links (In Aus or overseas) for a good place to buy one?

My main issue is when the fact that these flippers are trying to throw rust-buckets for the price of a proper 911 (then again prices don't seem to be going down), I start feeling jaded on whether or not it is even worth it in the first place on a possible market bubble.

I hope you are able to understand what I mean.

-Regards, a confused bloke

 

[flamingporsche]

That budget won’t go far in any market. An air cooled 911 is probably a dream worth deferring and in the meantime park your cash in a decent 968 or 944.  Still get to drive your money around whilst building a bigger wedge of cash for that 911 dream. There’s no such thing as a cheap Porsche - you will hear it over n over. 

[JLD]

US is probably your closest bet in regards to your budget. Maybe a 912?

[Comяad1991]

1 minute ago, flamingporsche said:

That budget won’t go far in any market. An air cooled 911 is probably a dream worth deferring and in the meantime park your cash in a decent 968 or 944.  Still get to drive your money around whilst building a bigger wedge of cash for that 911 dream. There’s no such thing as a cheap Porsche - you will hear it over n over. 

Could be that I'm thinking about prices more prevalent say a decade or so ago. I have no problem expanding for it but then again as I said I become jaded on if it is worth it in the end. I might also consider a 996 if all else fails

[LeeM]

2 minutes ago, Comяad1991 said:

Could be that I'm thinking about prices more prevalent say a decade or so ago. I have no problem expanding for it but then again as I said I become jaded on if it is worth it in the end. I might also consider a 996 if all else fails

 Definitely at least 7/8 years ago you could have found a LHD or converted car for that sorta coin. Sadly, today I think you'll struggle getting something from overseas that doesn't resemble Fred Flinstones car. You might get lucky, but the freight and import duties, taxes etc etc is going to kill your buy in budget, then you'll need to add anywhere from $30-50,60,100k to fix it

 Even a decent 996 (coupe) at entry level is $45-55k, yet you'd also probably find an converted/LHD air cooled Targa for that sort of money, so that would have to be your starting point budget I reckon. 

 

[Comяad1991]

2 minutes ago, JLD said:

US is probably your closest bet in regards to your budget. Maybe a 912?

I have eyed the 912, though they are starting to fly high like a SpaceX rocket. 

I guess if I were to follow the US route I would have to stalk it for a long period

Auctions in USA seem to go for slightly under market value as well (unless its some souped up special edition variant)

[LeeM]

Just now, Comяad1991 said:

I have eyed the 912, though they are starting to fly high like a SpaceX rocket. 

I guess if I were to follow the US route I would have to stalk it for a long period

Auctions in USA seem to go for slightly under market value as well (unless its some souped up special edition variant)

 Just have a reputable inspection done on anything in the states, as I know of two cars that came here were touted as being near mint, yet both ended up needing near full resto's and engine rebuilds

[Comяad1991]

1 minute ago, LeeM said:

 Definitely at least 7/8 years ago you could have found a LHD or converted car for that sorta coin. Sadly, today I think you'll struggle getting something from overseas that doesn't resemble Fred Flinstones car. You might get lucky, but the freight and import duties, taxes etc etc is going to kill your buy in budget, then you'll need to add anywhere from $30-50,60,100k to fix it

 Even a decent 996 (coupe) at entry level is $45-55k, yet you'd also probably find an converted/LHD air cooled Targa for that sort of money, so that would have to be your starting point budget I reckon. 

 

I must be late to the 911 bubble then, though I  have seen 996 coupes from the U.K & Ireland for $29k AUD but then again overall import might put it on the $35k AUD mark which is fine for me if a Classic becomes a pipedream

2 minutes ago, LeeM said:

 Just have a reputable inspection done on anything in the states, as I know of two cars that came here were touted as being near mint, yet both ended up needing near full resto's and engine rebuilds

Thanks for the heads up, Yeah that's the problem when bringing it in from the States. 

Would a company that specialises in importing from there to here help or would it be another quick moneygrab for them?

[flamingporsche]

Unless you plan on relocating to the UK for a year, a 996 is too new for importing. 
A tip, cab 996 could be in the mix locally if you found the right one / motivated seller

[LeeM]

1 minute ago, Comяad1991 said:

I must be late to the 911 bubble then, though I  have seen 996 coupes from the U.K & Ireland for $29k AUD but then again overall import might put it on the $35k AUD mark which is fine for me if a Classic becomes a pipedream

 I was talking local 996 money. 

 UK cars here are like lepers to most of the Porsche fraternity with their history of salty roads/rust etc. Not saying they don't sell here, yet there will always be the 'UK car' stigma attached to them. 

 Not sure, but importing one of them would attract LCT wouldn't it? 

[Dalai]

@flamingporsche beat me to it. Anything under 25 years old can't be imported and registered unless personal import as mentioned.

[LeeM]

 And what they said ☝️

[Comяad1991]

8 minutes ago, flamingporsche said:

Unless you plan on relocating to the UK for a year, a 996 is too new for importing. 
A tip, cab 996 could be in the mix locally if you found the right one / motivated seller

I read that the pre 1989 rule is being scrapped and that a 25 year rule is going to be introduced instead, meaning any car over 25 years old can be brought into Australia (or so I know) if it is a LHD though, in NSW it has to be 30 years old to register. That's why I had eyed U.K 996's

Cabs seem to be a more viable local option though

6 minutes ago, LeeM said:

 I was talking local 996 money. 

 UK cars here are like lepers to most of the Porsche fraternity with their history of salty roads/rust etc. Not saying they don't sell here, yet there will always be the 'UK car' stigma attached to them. 

 Not sure, but importing one of them would attract LCT wouldn't it? 

Luckily they are not old enough to be the rust buckets we see of the previous gen 911's, as for the LCT I'm positive it applies to a certain threshold spent on purchasing and bringing in the car in

5 minutes ago, Dalai said:

@flamingporsche beat me to it. Anything under 25 years old can't be imported and registered unless personal import as mentioned.

In 2022 though, the 996 turns 25 years old which should be enough to bring one to Aus

[OBRUT]

I wouldn’t bother with overseas cars - too much of your $33k budget will go getting it here with freight, GST etc

Start looking locally, HARD, and try to stash away another $10-15k whilst you’re at it.  

[Mik001]

Hi Comrad 

You really needs to narrow your search down to what you really want - air cooled /996 , targa/coupe , otherwise you’ll settle for something that won’t hold your interest for the years it will take to restore it. 

 Do some more research then you’ll know which model to go for and can start saving the appropriate amount. Unfortunately these old 911’s prices only go one way, and if it’s cheap then you will need x3 times your budget to fix it. 
 Best of luck 

[Fishcop]

2 hours ago, OBRUT said:

I wouldn’t bother with overseas cars - too much of your $33k budget will go getting it here with freight, GST etc

Start looking locally, HARD, and try to stash away another $10-15k whilst you’re at it.  

This^^

I'm an optimistic guy, and I have done very well finding early 911s in the past - but your budget is also very much in the past...  $33k might buy you your choice of a reliable drive train, a rust free rolling LHD shell, or a later model statutory write off.  Add $50k and 400-600 hours of your time to get your project on the road.

As I've discovered though, $33k will get you into a quality, FSH completely documented, low build number Australian delivered 944S2...

[brian in buddina]

Comrad

Are you looking for a project for the sake of wrenching or do you also want to drives it? The down side of being underfunded but willing to do a restoration is that you will miss out on enjoying the Porsche community on drives. The dollars you spend on your restoration may not be recouped even if your labour is free. OME parts for these cars are expensive! Your current budget, if totally spent on the purchase price leaves nothing for the eventual refurb & maintenace cost. 

There are 2 - 914 for sale presently on carsales close to your budget. At least the driver’s view would have a vintage aircooled instrument cluster look of a 911. There is issues with rust in these older pcars as they are not galvanised. An advantage is you can always source an aircooled 6 if you need to tinker when funds become available. There is a current 914/6 project on the PFA forum now. 

The best value in bang per buck currently, by consensus, is an old Boxster. 

If you want a practical Pcar within your current budget do as Fishcops suggestion have a look at the 944. 

If your budget goes into the higher 30 look at a newer Boxster.

Into the 40s your at the lower end Caymen territory which in the big scheme of things is almost brand new, relatively speaking.  

Go to some Porsche events & meet some owners & do some research. Have a look at the alternatives before dismissing them. They can be a stepping stone to your ultimate Porsche in time. When you meet Pcar owners you may find there is more projects and opportunities than are what is being advertised on Carsales. 

Good luck. I went though the same process 5 years ago.

 

 

[OBRUT]

More good advice here.  Park (some of) your money in something fun and move into an air cooled 911 later. 
 

My picks are:

Gen 1 manual Boxster (remove everything you can and play the lightweighting game)

924 turbo 

914 

[Shedpest]

They are out there, I bought a 77 coupe Left Hooker from Nu Zealand a few years back for mid 30's.

[luzzo]

7 minutes ago, Shedpest said:

They are out there, I bought a 77 coupe Left Hooker from Nu Zealand a few years back for mid 30's.

Seems like that's already now "the good 'ol days"...!

[michel]

@Comяad1991 seems despite your questions,  are all over the curious oz porsche market. 

all wise remarks been said above and even the well connected (are they the flippers you point out ? ), who are good at sniffing out a deal on a 911 , are likely to acknowledge finding one for less than 50k let alone complete and registrable a task. 

when a straightforward engine rebuild on a 911 is pretty much your stated budget - why the lament ?

I agree on the suggested alternates a good n/a 924, 944- (possiblyturbo) , 986/987

definitely 914 

Id even suggest a COVIN 

take heart though, price jacking  across many alternate Marques has been the norm .- who knows where they can get a great 105 for 30k?

 

[Comяad1991]

16 hours ago, OBRUT said:

I wouldn’t bother with overseas cars - too much of your $33k budget will go getting it here with freight, GST etc

Start looking locally, HARD, and try to stash away another $10-15k whilst you’re at it.  

Do you know any sites besides Ebay,Gummie and Carsales for Porsche sales in Aus?

14 hours ago, Mik001 said:

Hi Comrad 
You really needs to narrow your search down to what you really want - air cooled /996 , targa/coupe , otherwise you’ll settle for something that won’t hold your interest for the years it will take to restore it. 
Do some more research then you’ll know which model to go for and can start saving the appropriate amount. Unfortunately these old 911’s prices only go one way, and if it’s cheap then you will need x3 times your budget to fix it. 
 Best of luck 

I prefer the 80s aircooled coupe, but those seem the most overpriced ones

14 hours ago, Fishcop said:

This^^

I'm an optimistic guy, and I have done very well finding early 911s in the past - but your budget is also very much in the past...  $33k might buy you your choice of a reliable drive train, a rust free rolling LHD shell, or a later model statutory write off.  Add $50k and 400-600 hours of your time to get your project on the road.

As I've discovered though, $33k will get you into a quality, FSH completely documented, low build number Australian delivered 944S2...

The only thing I can think of doing with a LHD rolling shell is a crazy engine swap but then that would it not kill the point buying a classic 911?

5 hours ago, brian in buddina said:

 be a stepping stone to your ultimate Porsche in time. When you meet Pcar owners you may find there is more projects and opportunities than are what is being advertised on Carsales. 

Good luck. I went though the same process 5 years ago.

 

 

I have not fully dismissed 996's and 997's yet, the styling though is a bit too bulky to my taste, maybe if I get a more up close look of it I probably might broaden what kind of a car I'm looking for

3 hours ago, Shedpest said:

They are out there, I bought a 77 coupe Left Hooker from Nu Zealand a few years back for mid 30's.

 

Ah NZ, how could I have overlooked our next door neighbour, though the price over there probably also went up too,  also how did you make sure that it was a reasonsbale overseas purchase and safely brought back to Aus or did you just fly there yourself?

3 hours ago, luzzo said:

Seems like that's already now "the good 'ol days"...!

Alot of people said before that the Aircooled 911 market is just a bubble waiting to pop in the forseeable future but I don't see that happening at all

30 minutes ago, michel said:

@Comяad1991 seems despite your questions,  are all over the curious oz porsche market. 
all wise remarks been said above and even the well connected (are they the flippers you point out ? ), who are good at sniffing out a deal on a 911 , are likely to acknowledge finding one for less than 50k let alone complete and registrable a task. 
when a straightforward engine rebuild on a 911 is pretty much your stated budget - why the lament ?
I agree on the suggested alternates a good n/a 924, 944- (possiblyturbo) , 986/987
definitely 914 
Id even suggest a COVIN 
take heart though, price jacking  across many alternate Marques has been the norm .- who knows where they can get a great 105 for 30k?

 

Interesting, never heard of a Covin before though

[michel]

18 minutes ago, Comяad1991 said:

Do you know any sites besides Ebay,Gummie and Carsales for Porsche sales in Aus?

I prefer the 80s aircooled coupe, but those seem the most overpriced ones

The only thing I can think of doing with a LHD rolling shell is a crazy engine swap but then that would it not kill the point buying a classic 911?

I have not fully dismissed 996's and 997's yet, the styling though is a bit too bulky to my taste, maybe if I get a more up close look of it I probably might broaden what kind of a car I'm looking for

Ah NZ, how could I have overlooked our next door neighbour, though the price over there probably also went up too,  also how did you make sure that it was a reasonsbale overseas purchase and safely brought back to Aus or did you just fly there yourself?

Alot of people said before that the Aircooled 911 market is just a bubble waiting to pop in the forseeable future but I don't see that happening at all

Interesting, never heard of a Covin before though

Sir you don’t have the budget for a running viable 911 

[Shedpest]

24 minutes ago, Comяad1991 said:

Ah NZ, how could I have overlooked our next door neighbour, though the price over there probably also went up too,  also how did you make sure that it was a reasonsbale overseas purchase and safely brought back to Aus or did you just fly there yourself?

 

Just due diligence, spoke to the owner a few times and formed a good relationship, spoke to the previous owner who imported it from Japan years earlier, found a local Guru to check it out and do a report, then made an offer.

I have a shipping Guru who is a genius with this sort of stuff and orgainsed the RORO transport and 3 weeks later it was at the dock in Adelaide.

Same as buying a car/ bike from interstate, you have to have trust in the people you are dealing with.

[Comяad1991]

3 hours ago, michel said:

Sir you don’t have the budget for a running viable 911 

Keyword 'Running"

3 hours ago, Shedpest said:

Just due diligence, spoke to the owner a few times and formed a good relationship, spoke to the previous owner who imported it from Japan years earlier, found a local Guru to check it out and do a report, then made an offer.

I have a shipping Guru who is a genius with this sort of stuff and orgainsed the RORO transport and 3 weeks later it was at the dock in Adelaide.

Same as buying a car/ bike from interstate, you have to have trust in the people you are dealing with.

Do you have any links for a reputable NZ or US importer?

Firstly, Thank you very much to everyone who has contributed to this topic.

It has whacked a bit of sense into me, I will still try and eye any 911 before the 996 around $35K AUD, but we all know that depriciation is not a thing with 911's.

I have come to like the 996 generation of the 911 as well as it is not so bad after all so is the 996 and 997 Boxster generation as well as the 928/964.

Unless Godzilla comes to Australia or Aircooled 911 prices fall down (Godzilla one is more realistic though) I guess eventually I might import a 996 911 from the U.K-Ireland or somewhere else like Japan, Cyprus or Hong Kong even, as the Australian market for these is again a little "special"

I've always loved the classic look of the 911 and the pure driving machine (Sorry BMW) feeling and sound, but when the asking price for even the most abused/shady examples are that of an Audi RS6, then you really have to question if it is justifiable and if you are thinking with your brain or heart.

Cheers for now, feel free to use the thread for other statements or questions.