Niko Posted 22October, 2013 Report Share Posted 22October, 2013 http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/miscellaneous/mark-hales-found-liable-in-piper-case/#.UmDWizPmFWs.gmail Interesting situation.....what do people think???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvs11 Posted 22October, 2013 Report Share Posted 22October, 2013 It's a bit difficult to judge from this article, being written by an admittedly biased third party without much detail about the nature of the engine failure. I guess that journos/drivers need to consider professional indemnity insurance for any car they drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC9911 Posted 22October, 2013 Report Share Posted 22October, 2013 If I knowingly let someone drive my car then I would think I have made a judgement call on: 1. Their ability to drive, 2. My acceptance that something could go wrong, 3. The obvious practical consideration that if something does go wrong they may not have the financial capacity to make a contribution to the repairs, 4. If your not prepared to accept the risk then don't loan your car in the first place, 5. My call, it's a bit along the lines of " buyer beware" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 22October, 2013 Report Share Posted 22October, 2013 He got stiffed! Fair enough if the guy stuck it into a fence during some 'enthusiastic' driving, but missing a shift and blowing the motor up? Contribute 'some' of the repair cost maybe, but the whole amount? HE OWNS A 917 for god's sake!! Ridiculous decision by the courts in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted 22October, 2013 Report Share Posted 22October, 2013 he was doing fine until he admitted fault/liability and then got screwed the whole thing makes them both look bad really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrera28 Posted 22October, 2013 Report Share Posted 22October, 2013 I believe Mark Hales has had to declare bankruptcy, if you read English magazines like Octane you will have read abiut this story as it bubbled along. Often car magazines will insure cars on their articles. I had a car in a Motor omparison and my car was insured whilst the journalist and racer burned it around Oran Park. The problem in this instance is the value of a 917 is so high that insurance would be problematical particularly as the article was I beleve a free lance article they were looking to sell on to a number of magazines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pabloau Posted 22October, 2013 Report Share Posted 22October, 2013 Would have to agree with GC9911, really about lowering risk and exposure "A.L.A.R.P" - god I hate those HSE terms, but suggest someone had a better lawyer..... Hate this litigious society we have become.... What ever happened to "My word is my Bond"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airhead Posted 22October, 2013 Report Share Posted 22October, 2013 Can I borrow your car this weekend Niko? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted 22October, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 22October, 2013 I have just been going into this case further with a few of the attached links.....sure opens up a can of worms. Lots of different thoughts on what happened. If he (HALES) did over rev the 917 causing the damage, which he admits to, but backs that saying there was a clutch problem with the car or similar. So driver error or mechanical problem....causing the driver error... I also think if you let someone drive your very expensive classic, you would have to have a lot of confidence in his ability to look after it and hopefully bring it back in the same condition as it had left the pits in. A shame for both the driver and the owner that there is apparently no insurance cover available for mechanical mishaps, before taking on these type of commitments. (this ended up with a 120,000 POUNDS bill including court costs for HALES...yowch) From what I have read, HALES is a very well respected and qualified driver and journalist. Personally....Unfortunately I think Mr PIPER should bite the bullet, be very pee'd off and although it is going to be painful, put it down to experience and move on.....(easy for me to say) If however HALES had actually bent the car through driver error, I may have a different opinion, but then insurance may have helped out there. That is when I believe the "YOU BEND IT - YOU PAY FOR IT" would probably be acceptable. Finally Barry in answer to your request, "trust you like a brudder". You can borrow the Box without any "clauses" whenever you like. Just bring it back with a full tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted 22October, 2013 Report Share Posted 22October, 2013 David Piper during the filming of Le Mans, having some 917 'experiences' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 23October, 2013 Report Share Posted 23October, 2013 There is a level of responsibility on both the owner and driver, so many variables with a circumstance such as this. Looks like a case for Judge Judy whom I always feel is fair and reasonable. So in future, you can borrow my car - just sign, here, here and finally here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted 23October, 2013 Report Share Posted 23October, 2013 The problem is as Bab's stated on another forum is the 917 will rev all day to 8,500rpm then explode into 11ty billion parts at 8,501rpm. I get the feeing there is more to it than meets the eye and we will never really know the full story. Without knowing it all I see it like this. It's an old race car that is well known for being easy to blow up. They would both know this. I'd be very shocked if that had not spoken about this before Hales drove the car. I know when I drive or ride other peoples stuff I always talk about should the worst happen whats the story. It's not a nice subject but I always raise it so we have an understanding. I get the feeling Piper got the $i7s with Hales on the day after it happend and wanted to prove a point. Who knows, Hales might of gotten out of the car and said too bad so sad to Piper and that started it. I've driven and riden so very nice things but I've also had to turn down some offers because I just couldn't afford the "You bend it you mend it" amount in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZ930 Posted 23October, 2013 Report Share Posted 23October, 2013 Was the car in good usable condition prior to the test drive or had it been sitting around for quite awhile and just had a cursory look over? How many hours were on this engine (and clutch) prior to the test ? Was it due for a major rebuild ? If there was a clutch problem why continue testing ? Cost for damages, I think, would be in accordance to the pre-drive agreement, if there was one, but does this cover mechanical damage ? Racing cars are stressed to the limit and break unexpectedly. New engines have been known to blow up ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caver Posted 23October, 2013 Report Share Posted 23October, 2013 What ever happened to "My word is my Bond"? Old bankers saying...."if a man's word is as good as his bond, then take his bond!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9fan Posted 23October, 2013 Report Share Posted 23October, 2013 "I also think if you let someone drive your very expensive classic, you would have to have a lot of confidence in his ability to look after it and hopefully bring it back in the same condition as it had left the pits in." That is why similar Porsche Museum cars are handed to Jim Richards to demonstrate to the OZ public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pabloau Posted 23October, 2013 Report Share Posted 23October, 2013 Old bankers saying...."if a man's word is as good as his bond, then take his bond!" Ahh yes, the ubiquitous bankers..... With all due respect to any members here who toil in that industry, I would class them somewhat lower than shark dung & I have been bitten very badly by banks....... Still a sore subject after 23 yrs 4 months and 11 days.... But who is counting! I have bought property on the shake of a hand, also done business that is still strong today on the back of a handshake.... Simple and too trusting ? Perhaps, however I do sleep well at night & Karma is an absolute mo'fo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrest Posted 23October, 2013 Report Share Posted 23October, 2013 If somebody is prepared to to hand their car, racing or roadgoing over to a journo to have it driven at speed or otherwise they have to accept the fact that something can go wrong. It is irrelevant to me whether the tester is a mensch or a complete loon. I have no doubt many journo's aren't really skilled enough or respectful enough to be handed the keys for testing but It doesn't really matter.. It is about who is going to pay the bill when the budgie hits the fan. Let's face it when the owner lends a vehicle to a magazine or TV show it is generally so they can grab a bit of pose value or more street cred i.e. extra money when it comes to selling time. Self interest for both parties here is the main game on most occasions. So if it all goes horribly wrong and ends in tears it has to be fully understood who is paying the bill before the game begins. Whatever way it is viewed, the person testing the car shouldn't be made to pay as they are more than likely on a normal wage structure if in fact being paid at all and couldn't possibly meet the often very expensive repair bills. Over the years I have been asked to test or 'have a run' in various vehicles on the track but have in most cases declined to do so as I knew I could not afford to do the repair if anything happened. The odd occasion that I have caved has been on the strict proviso that I would not be held responsible in the advent of any damage. I have taken into account the financial situation of the person making the offer and have then driven the vehicle when I know that there would be absolutely no financial hardship to that person if there was a total loss. Moral don't lend your car if you can't afford to lose it. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Harold Posted 2November, 2013 Report Share Posted 2November, 2013 Ever heard that fantastic song "Blurred Lines"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 3November, 2013 Report Share Posted 3November, 2013 Good video clip that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevepGT3 Posted 3November, 2013 Report Share Posted 3November, 2013 Ever heard that fantastic song "Blurred Lines"? NO. I turned the sound off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted 3November, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 3November, 2013 NO. I turned the sound off I have it saved on my computer, but like Steve I only watch the pictures... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJames Posted 5November, 2013 Report Share Posted 5November, 2013 A word to the wise: watch the "Blurred Lines" vid on vimeo. Trust me on this. With regard to the case under discussion: Hales most certainly got stiffed. Over the years he's been trusted to steer all manner of squillion dollar vehicles, racing and track testing for Octane and other publications. By all accounts he's competent behind the wheel, writes well and has (had?) a good reputation for returning cars car-shaped. As webrest pointed out, the owners of these cars reap a benefit from having them lionised in print. You can bet your bottom dollar that none of that financial benefit ever accrued to the journalist! The fallout from this case is that journalists may be reluctant to take on the (implied) risk of fanging squillion dollar cars so that they can write about them for our benefit, and literate petrolheads will be the ultimate losers from all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted 5November, 2013 Report Share Posted 5November, 2013 literate petrolheads will be the ultimate losers from all of this. This cracked me up. The non-literate ones only want to look at Green/Pink Veeteez wiv 20'z an a catback aye mate. None of dis eeuro crap aye. Jus aussie aye. Starya .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 6November, 2013 Report Share Posted 6November, 2013 If you buy a 917, and then let someone else drive it. you accept that you need to be able to pay for the damage should something happen. If you have not done a full risk analysis prior to letting anyone else drive your 917 and involved your Risk advisor/Insurance Broker/Company then, well.............be reasonable as you have made a grave mistake in doing so. Hales would not have the means to either buy or repair a 917. Of course he was happy to drive the car, As he and many of his fellow journo's drive many wealthy collectors cars for magazines frequently. Nick Mason lets them run free in his fragile italian collection all the time, on the Nurburgring!!! In this instance I feel that it was just bad Luck. Its rare that these cars are driven (for this very reason) and they are considered investment items rather than what they actually are; Racing cars. Rant>over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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