symsy Posted 7November, 2015 Report Share Posted 7November, 2015 So I actually heard on the grapevine tat a frind of a friend orders a Singer and its like 450-520k GBP … WTF thats like 1.1milSeriously , there is no doubt that these cars are awesome but how awesome ...http://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911/16915/watch-porsche-911-re-imagined-by-singer-reviewWith unlimited block of Aluminium , CNC router and operator, a carbon and good sheet metal fabricator and some good techs , a GT3 motor with Carbies and or IMO and how do you spend that kinda money, without gold plateI know we have debated hotrods and more but if you were to start with a 964 110k … what do you spoend the other 900k on ……... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch-monkey Posted 7November, 2015 Report Share Posted 7November, 2015 .... A gt3 motor with carbies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgy Posted 7November, 2015 Report Share Posted 7November, 2015 Ok how much of that £450k was VAT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 7November, 2015 Report Share Posted 7November, 2015 There's also the exclusivity tax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claywong Posted 7November, 2015 Report Share Posted 7November, 2015 Buying the brand clearly. These items are all luxury goods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUT Posted 7November, 2015 Report Share Posted 7November, 2015 Give me $900k to spend on a hot rod and I'll rent a factory, gear it up, hire some gun staff and make a few of my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboT Posted 7November, 2015 Report Share Posted 7November, 2015 Give me $900k to spend on a hot rod and I'll rent a factory, gear it up, hire some gun staff and make a few of my own.came to the same conclusion 6 months ago when a landed singer in OZ worked out at about $750,000 and donor cars were $65k. We were close to figuring out costs of roughly half to build one but life got in the way unfortunately. I still have my donor, but now it's worth about $100,000, and competant builders have a two year waiting list...Kind of glad I waited though, as I am enjoying owning cars that don't lose money after years of owning depreciating monsters. Mod cars seem to suffer the same fate. Always did question whether I was ever going to achieve the quality that Singer have though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveT Posted 7November, 2015 Report Share Posted 7November, 2015 Have a look at what we can get locally. Just to name one shop, Zag, they do exceptional work. There are others in Aus doing the same. Great cars that are, IMHO, maybe even an improvement on the original with modern aircon, 2015 brakes, choices of engine hot up bits that are kind of Porsche but not really found on street cars etc. Sure, they don't make their own brand and style of wheels etc. but how many choices are there on the market already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
symsy Posted 8November, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 8November, 2015 A new brand of Pastiche Porsche for Aus , just need 10 candidares for the factory to be born Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvs11 Posted 8November, 2015 Report Share Posted 8November, 2015 It can cost between $1.5 to 2 million for a one-off, hand built show car for the auto producers, and you can't even drive the bloody things. AU$350-400K for a custom built 911 to drive and enjoy for years is good value by comparison. The biggest hurdle is probably getting it past the finance minister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboT Posted 8November, 2015 Report Share Posted 8November, 2015 Have a look at what we can get locally. Just to name one shop, Zag, they do exceptional work. There are others in Aus doing the same. Great cars that are, IMHO, maybe even an improvement on the original with modern aircon, 2015 brakes, choices of engine hot up bits that are kind of Porsche but not really found on street cars etc. Sure, they don't make their own brand and style of wheels etc. but how many choices are there on the market already?probably seen 4 zag cars in the last 6 months. Really great looking and well built, but no where near the creative touch a Singer has. Resell isn't that great either...but did contact them. 2 year waiting list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 8November, 2015 Report Share Posted 8November, 2015 Exactly mate!Have heard Zag is very good, yet I would love to compare any Porsche specialist builder to a Singer built car. I wonder what a company like Zags could do with an absolute unlimited budget? I mean they build THE most craziest, yet tasteful, modified Porsche you could imagine that is directly comparable on every way to the quality of a Singer, and see what sorta price it ACTUALLY cost to build with labour and parts within the same timeline as a Singer, 10 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboT Posted 8November, 2015 Report Share Posted 8November, 2015 Exactly mate!Have heard Zag is very good, yet I would love to compare any Porsche specialist builder to a Singer built car. I wonder what a company like Zags could do with an absolute unlimited budget? I mean they build THE most craziest, yet tasteful, modified Porsche you could imagine that is directly comparable on every way to the quality of a Singer, and see what sorta price it ACTUALLY cost to build with labour and parts within the same timeline as a Singer, 10 months Honestly I think we have to respect Rob Dickinson's passion and talent. He is clearly a true enthusiast and a great designer. I know my limits in design and when i started looking at this project i fast realized i know fuck all about designing a car and less about building one. My knowledge about the history of design in Porsche is pretty superficial. You need this knowledge and talent to take something we all know and love and make it better. A Singer isn't a hot rod. It is a very well designed piece of machinery. ZAG and others definitely build peoples dreams, but they are really replicas or bits from different eras. Kind of like really highly specialized Lego . I have a feeling that ZAG are probably building several Singer clones right now - lets wait and see how they turn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-S Posted 8November, 2015 Report Share Posted 8November, 2015 Ok how much of that £450k was VAT? I believe that's part of the problem. An old trackday acquaintance from the UK placed an order with Singer earlier this year at Goodwood, but as he worked up the spec he wanted it got to the point where the VAT bill alone was £100k, so sadly he's cancelled the order. The thread's on pistonheads for those who are also on there. Andrew has a very impressive collection of cars, he certainly enjoys them but they're an investment. He's done very well out of his cars in the last few years it has to be said, his 288 GTO was stunning.If I had the cash I'd let a friend of ours build me a retro 911, his cars are beautiful. I posted one of the recently finished ones here a while ago and my avatar is one of his others. The green one was $100k US on top of the donor car, if I remember rightly. Stunning build. Marc knows Rob Dickinson quite well, says he's the ultimate perfectionist and nothing is too much, the quality of the finished cars is beyond belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 8November, 2015 Report Share Posted 8November, 2015 Just read up on the tech that goes into the sound deadening package on the singer and you'll see where the cash goes.remember also it's a full carbon fibre body. Don't think anyone in Oz is building to that level. Not too many cosworth engiens getting around either. It is really next level stuff over a hot motor and some beefy guards.for what they are they are pretty good value I think. Just because countries like ours and the uk have retarded tax and import rules is not singers fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnage Posted 9November, 2015 Report Share Posted 9November, 2015 I believe that's part of the problem. An old trackday acquaintance from the UK placed an order with Singer earlier this year at Goodwood, but as he worked up the spec he wanted it got to the point where the VAT bill alone was £100k, so sadly he's cancelled the order. The thread's on pistonheads for those who are also on there. Andrew has a very impressive collection of cars, he certainly enjoys them but they're an investment. He's done very well out of his cars in the last few years it has to be said, his 288 GTO was stunning.If I had the cash I'd let a friend of ours build me a retro 911, his cars are beautiful. I posted one of the recently finished ones here a while ago and my avatar is one of his others. The green one was $100k US on top of the donor car, if I remember rightly. Stunning build. Marc knows Rob Dickinson quite well, says he's the ultimate perfectionist and nothing is too much, the quality of the finished cars is beyond belief.I'm stunned by the prices of these Singer cars. The friend of Mike-S was looking at a specced up car of £500,000 ($1,050,000AUD) + VAT of £100,000 ($210,000AUD) no wonder he cancelled. An educated guestimate build cost for something similar say from ZAG would be lets say $200,000AUD including the donor car. Remember the black ST 964 C4 project by FBD, earlier this year $180,000 would have bought you that car. How much more fun is & pleasure is the Singer going to deliver for your (in the case of Mike-S friend) extra $900,000AUD, apart from winning some pissing contests at C&C's? If you dare to drive it anywhere.Don't get me wrong, I totally love what Singer do & drool every time I see one, I agree with most things here, but just feel that these are the play things of the super wealthy, who are the target audience & that they have been "over re-imagined". At this price point your into 73 RS territory, also makes the 993TT at $320,911 look cheap & its easily serviced & parts & panels are readily available. The Singer cars are IMHO by far the best back dates, re-imagined 911 whatever you want to call them, however, they are priced up there with some serious alternative metal that is original & rare.As Mike-S has identified there are others building beautiful cars at a fraction of the price of a Singer. There, thats it, its off my chest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 9November, 2015 Report Share Posted 9November, 2015 came to the same conclusion 6 months ago when a landed singer in OZ worked out at about $750,000 and donor cars were $65k. We were close to figuring out costs of roughly half to build one but life got in the way unfortunately. I still have my donor, but now it's worth about $100,000, and competant builders have a two year waiting list...Kind of glad I waited though, as I am enjoying owning cars that don't lose money after years of owning depreciating monsters. Mod cars seem to suffer the same fate. Always did question whether I was ever going to achieve the quality that Singer have though. We are all glad you didn't hack up a perfectly nice 964 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel Posted 9November, 2015 Report Share Posted 9November, 2015 Approx 5 years ago there was chatter on whether singer would go any distance as a build company , whether they would become asset class and become sought after in years to come - will they be truly rare or just rarified for me irrelevant thinking and IMHO the brown bomber much better than all that follows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neill Posted 9November, 2015 Report Share Posted 9November, 2015 I love looking at Singers and seeing the ott attention they pay. But, the price is also ott. There is no way I personally could justify that sort of money for a car, even if I had so much money it was no longer an issue. Lightspeed Classic is a German equivalent of sorts, I like a lot of aspects of them and the pricing is far more realistic from the bits I have seen. But even then it is a lot of money I personally couldn't justify. I'll stick to doing it myself and attempting to get even marginally close to the quality they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 9November, 2015 Report Share Posted 9November, 2015 Don't get me wrong, I totally love what Singer do & drool every time I see one, I agree with most things here, but just feel that these are the play things of the super wealthy, who are the target audience & that they have been "over re-imagined". At this price point your into 73 RS territory, also makes the 993TT at $320,911 look cheap & its easily serviced & parts & panels are readily available. That is a very interesting point. What si the future value of these cars going to be. They are exclusive, and expensive, now, but in 20 years, will they just be tired old clones.... My guess is that they will obviously worth more than a Zag equivalent in 20 years, mostly due to the world wide notoriety, but will they keep pace with a 73 RS (which is similar money now). I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgy Posted 9November, 2015 Report Share Posted 9November, 2015 I don't think its a fair statement to say you could build the same car for far less money, you just can't and that is a fact. The engineering, development, grade of materials, man hours etc would actually stack up to be a lot more than what Singer charges if you were to try and build an equivalent car. Can you build a great 911 for a fraction of the cost that would be as fun to drive? You bet your ass you could... but that isn't the point of Singer now is it? If you have to sit there and quantify/qualify Singer into rational terms then its not the car for you. I think that is a good point about comparing the 73 Carrera RS to the Singer for future values! Lets set a calendar reminder for 20 years time to revisit this thread As a mere mortal I will just spectate from here for now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel Posted 9November, 2015 Report Share Posted 9November, 2015 Edgy I reckon echoes same thoughts about RUF.... Would If singer were operating out of Germany be accorded manufacturer status ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV911 Posted 9November, 2015 Report Share Posted 9November, 2015 An educated guestimate build cost for something similar say from ZAG would be lets say $200,000AUD including the donor car.Closer to 300k now donors are ~100k and the dollar is at 0.70 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
symsy Posted 9November, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 9November, 2015 Im just reimaging the stickers to put on my car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-S Posted 9November, 2015 Report Share Posted 9November, 2015 The landed cost of the Singer to Andrews spec into the UK was in the region of £550k, including the donor car. I do know he was going for the full monty 4 litre engine option, but other than that he kept the detail to himself.By anyone's standards that's quite a lot. Having said that, if I had it, I'd probably spend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.