Left hand 930 value

michel · 27March, 2017

Michel
Please reread my original comment. At no time do I suggest that Mick tries to sell the car overseas on his own. You need to do it through a specialist and in this regard, i would be talking to CTS because they do sell a reasonable number of cars overseas, including to Europe. it does depend on the exchange rate.
The issue for me is fairly straight forward. There are very few buyers for LHD cars here in Oz. Just look at the prices being asked. It's close to criminal. Overall, our prices seem to be roughly based on UK prices and you then add a premium for Aus delivered and take a chunk off off for lhd. Yet UK prices are closely linked to European prices. It's pretty clear that a lhd car in Europe sells for significantly more than an lhd car does here in Oz. The question is how to take advantage of that and it is unlikely to be through carsales.

Simon your post noted as was your specialists comment ?

simple answer speak to em and put to them the idea that you only want an O/S sale.

anyway back to the Jason... and Mick where are those pics, you got a photobucket account?

Mike D'Silva · 27March, 2017

Simon your post noted as was your specialists comment ?
simple answer speak to em and put to them the idea that you only want an O/S sale.
anyway back to the Jason... and Mick where are those pics, you got a photobucket account?

I hope this doesn't turn into another tennis thread....

OBRUT · 27March, 2017

When I sold my highly original 1972 911 T in Tangerine, factory paint, all log books and even details of every drive it had ever taken.......I put the feelers out locally and O/S. I had a lot of tyre kickers from the USA, but they were all scared off by the thought of shipping the car from AU. They all offered around 40% LESS than I sold it for to an Australian "buyer" who paid what I was hoping for and bought it without seeing it. . As Michel said....USA market stinks. EU - I have no idea.

This makes perfect sense. If I was a buyer surrounded locally by lhd stock in a lhd market, I wouldn't bother to import a lhd car from Australia unless the price was so low as to justify the risk, and the pita and cost of importation. No difference US or EU or wherever.

The expection is the super rare models, which an 83 turbo isn't.

I've bought several cars overseas - and in all cases they were either cheap compared to local offerings or rare.

I've also recently sold a car in Europe (bought it in Europe and decided not to bring in) - getting paid after the sale was a long and painful process.

symsy · 27March, 2017

Selling cars in the UK when there is plenty here .. whats the draw car.. I have seen 2 this week.. Plus your vat and import and then dealing someone to represnet you ..

Your better off advertising your self to mainland Europe perhaps..

The gravy train has pulled in at the station .. in the UK ..

Robert930 · 27March, 2017

135 Without a picture as its sounds like you done some of the hard yards .. remember Flip prices are what people cross the road to put in your hand. The rest is good luck , wishfull thinking or a shit load of marketting dollars behind it. Mint in your perception .. is a very highly contested position by many I bet..
In the past 6 months .. I have heard of 930s converted IN ok condition probably needing work 80k , so with a plus 30k safety buffer 110-150 is prob the normal not dealer sale market.
How longs is the piece of string ? I would be asking Turbo T ..
For me if I can buy RHD 150k-175k minter Aussie cars.. I would prefer that to a left
PS - The markets soft well soft .. needing a viagra soft

Hey Symsy, I doubt the average punter can get a minter Aussie 930 RHD for 150-175K, unless the owner has been hiding under a rock for 5 years...which does happen occasionally, but they wake up real quick when their phone lights up like an Xmas tree

Speaking of minter, I doubt many people realise just how rare any 930 in completely original condition is, they were the WRX of the Porsche lineup in the 80's, very very few survived without huge mods, bastardization, crashes, blowups and what not

I've witnessed 2 "minters" sold in the past 2 years (and I watch this model closely), both Aussie cars, and they were well north of $200K, sure things soften / harden etc, but the rare and clean cars always seem to go quick, RHD or LHD...in the right markets

Getting back to assisting Mick work out the best way to get out of his 930, I echo Simon's advice around getting a Dealer to help you Market it overseas, but be careful about pushing it as a "Minter" or throwing the word "Concours" around, your K27 Turbo, Fabspeed exhaust alone will scare the astute collectors far away (please don't take this as a dig at your car, it's my own opinion about how particular and finicky this end of the market is)

Skidmarks · 27March, 2017

I've been following the comments and feedback.

As many of you here will have seen, I take a very egalitarian position in this argument.

Ive got 3 LHD cars in the shed. Two have had gender reassignment surgery and the rest dress the wrong way.

i don't care so long as they're a good car. I get that others do care. That's a fair position.

I had a look at selling my RSCS overseas. After some disucssions with several dealers, I needed a shower. I'd avoid that avenue for that reason and the others expressed above.

The car is here, has an interesting story, ticks the number alignment box (I assume) and has a funky "period correct" interior.

If you're selling, have a go locally and patiently wait for the buyer that isn't just looking for a local delivered car and sees it for what it is.

Id guess that based only on what you've said your car could find a buyer in the mid to late 100's.

The best way to find out is finish it off, market it and put a starting number on it and see how you go. If you go via a local dealer, expect to give them a clip of between 10-15k as they're accessing their trusted network for you and will need to be paid for it.

flamingporsche · 27March, 2017

As there's nothing comparable (or has been lately in Aus market), your best comparison is with the blue South African delivered, factory RHD import. It appears in good shape, desirable colour (to me, anyway), comes from salt-free environs and hasn't sold in last few months in the $150-175k range. My guess is that your ceiling is around $150k but as with all sales, relies on having a buyer willing to pay. At the end of the day:

are you in a hurry to recycle the cash? Time-value of money comes into play, and is the market headed down/up/flat.
does leaving it sit on market whilst waiting for your price impart some sort of negative feeling towards it? ie there are plenty of cars sitting a long time and after a while you just have to wonder "what's wrong with it"

In the end, be prepared to negotiate if you have to move it.

edgy · 27March, 2017

I can't add anything to the dialogue about value because 930's don't have radiators, but you're getting some pretty sound advice Mick. Rob hits on some good notes there and I know the subject is close to home for him.

I would definitely agree with you taking some time to finish it, from my experience at present, the market it slow right now, so there is no point to hurry and get a car to the market.

egalitarian

I am going to be open and admit that you got me with this word Skiddy! I thought this was some kind of dietary requirement, but then I looked it up, consider that my 1 thing to learn today.

sleazius · 27March, 2017

The market is more than slow its practically dead. Not just for 930s but for everything over a certain price point. There is bugger all movement and cars just sit. Unless of course you're willing to take a serious haircut.

Take your time and do it right. I agree with Edgy, there is no need to rush this one out the door. You'll only be rushing it out to the sounds of crickets anyway.

Coastr · 28March, 2017

The yanks won't buy something without a car fax and history and all the rest.

the Dutchmen seem to buy anything out of the U.S., so maybe they'd do the same for a car from here. I doubt anyone in the UK would bother buying in a LHD from here. Still a lot of other countries not mentioned, including Germany where they are somewhat thinner on the ground.

i think the only way to sell OS is with one of e big dealers that regularly advertise in OS markets like CTS. But you will pay.

SimonN · 28March, 2017

The yanks won't buy something without a car fax and history and all the rest.
the Dutchmen seem to buy anything out of the U.S., so maybe they'd do the same for a car from here. I doubt anyone in the UK would bother buying in a LHD from here. Still a lot of other countries not mentioned, including Germany where they are somewhat thinner on the ground.
i think the only way to sell OS is with one of e big dealers that regularly advertise in OS markets like CTS. But you will pay.

Nobody in the UK would want this car, but on mainland Europe.... I think there would be a decent market for it. Unlike here, Euroland doesn't seem to get so hung up on where the car was first delivered. A car delivered in France is just as desirable as a car delivered in Italy, or Germany etc.

There are times i believe the likes of CTS are worth paying and there are times when I don't. If you look at some of the prices they have achieved on certain IB cars, they are way ahead of anything I have seen in the private market. It needs to be the right car, but if it is, they can extract a significant premium I don't think can be achieved by the private seller. They do sell a significant number of cars overseas. and I suspect this is one of the times it is worth speaking to them.

symsy · 29March, 2017

Flaccid .. would be my word for the market..in AUS and the UK

As for LHD vs RHD , I guess you can get lively and excited with both hands, it doesnt matter both are the same here in the UK in terms of turnover.

After another few days of looking around the uk , I can tell you most dealers want 20-40% to handle your car on consignment.. not worth the effort in my own opinion.

As for Aus.. I dont think the 930 200+k Unicorns are selling and do not agree that its a benchmark to measure against.

Not knocking Tom but as you have seen on many levels , his car looked like a peach and was well known.. and wasnt the fastest sell and by all reports he had to deal with a fussy prospective buyer .. I have no idea of his price , but im guessing he had to drop a little. Ask him privately for some inside running , he is after all a recent seller in the 2017 market..

Does anyone else have any on the ground experience of buying or selling a 930 in the last quarter?

Hopefully you bought your car Mick prior to the hike and fluffing of prices.

As we have all said many times originality , provenance and current condition is a big factor , especially I see in europe.. they want verey rego and saftey check document and more for their top dollar cars . Most of these cars become garage queens.

That said an unrestored car is quite rare here in the UK and you have to gain perspective , restored cars in UK and most of Europe seem to have had metal work and paint on many occasions.

Market in general for WC cars in UK is even slower with the next Brexit announcements dues

I agree with what Sleazius said about the market in AUS.. First hand , I know from some private dialogues/exchanges between 4-5 members behind the scenes who between have been looking in the GT3/ WC Turbos and alike in the 200-300k arena , we are all seeing a lot of stock sit , most of the cars ..negotiable 10-20% of ticket prices some more and very little new stock becoming available. I know 2-3 of us have bought this quarter and to gain a sense of reality in what im sharing , we all bought well and again ..under the UNICORN prices being pushed around forums.

I think we are just seeing not so much of a decline.. just a realistic leveling of the market in AUS.

Finish it , drive it for the best part of the winter and sell it in spring.. would be my call

JLD · 29March, 2017

Flaccid .. would be my word for the market..in AUS and the UK
As for LHD vs RHD , I guess you can lively with both hands, it doesnt matter both are the same here in the UK in terms of turnover.
After another few days of looking around the uk , I can tell you most dealers want 20-40% to handle your car on consignment.. not worth the effort in my own oppinion.
As for Aus.. I dont think the 930 200+k Unicorns are selling and do not agree that its a benchmark to measure against.
Not knocking Tom but as you have seen on many levels , his car looked like a peach and was well known.. and wasnt the fastest sell and by all reports he had to deal with a fussy prospective buyer .. I have no idea of his price , but im guessing he had to drop a little. Ask him privately for some inside running , he is after all a recent seller in the 2017 market..
Does anyone else have any on the ground experience of buying or selling a 930 in the last quarter?
Hopefully you bought your car Mick prior to the hike and fluffing of prices.
As we have all said many times originality , provenance and current condition is a big factor , especially I see in europe.. they want verey rego and saftey check document and more for their top dollar cars . Most of these cars become garage queens.
That said an unrestored car is quite rare here in the UK and you have to gain perspective , restored cars in UK and most of Europe seem to have had metal work and paint on many occasions.
Market in general for WC cars in UK is even slower with the next Brexit announcements dues
I agree with what Sleazius said about the market in AUS.. First hand , I know from some private dialogues/exchanges between 4-5 members behind the scenes who between have been looking in the GT3/ WC Turbos and alike in the 200-300k arena , we are all seeing a lot of stock sit , most of the cars ..negotiable 10-20% of ticket prices some more and very little new stock becoming available. I know 2-3 of us have bought this quarter and to gain a sense of reality in what im sharing , we all bought well and again ..under the UNICORN prices being pushed around forums.
I think we are just seeing not so much of a decline.. just a realistic leveling of the market in AUS.
Finish it , drive it for the best part of the winter and sell it in spring.. would be my call

classic Symsy post, proofreading optional :lol:

symsy · 29March, 2017

classic Symsy post, proofreading optional

Read between the lines , grammar and spelling … life isnt linear ..especially in my head and the gap between it and translations into fingertips

Tyrekicking is done with the feet , not by the movent of hand across the keyboard

Remember as many a wise Tibetan Monk said , its all an illusion

symsy · 29March, 2017

With Article 50 triggered ..dont think UK is an option..probably will get another 10% currency shift, shit only if I could get an order in on a new RS

michel · 31March, 2017

the Dutchmen seem to buy anything out of the U.S., so maybe they'd do the same for a car from here.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/949551-1985-porsche-930-a.html

turboT · 18April, 2017

Just picked up on this one boys. Late to the party but I don't mind adding a bit of transparency to the 930 debate.

A good Aussie delivered car is currently worth about $200k (+\-$10k) In my opinion and recent experience. Anything north of that and it has to be a very low km special car.

The reality is that 930's are not exactly rare with over 20,000 made.

Imported original RHD in a similar condition I would knock of 25%

converted - less 50%

LHD - as an owner of one I know they are great cars, even if overtaking is a bit of a gamble. But of the 20,000 made, about 18,000 were LHD (I figure about 10% are RHD), so as others have mentioned, anyone overseas is going to be spoilt for choice and is unlikely to be interested.

So you will be more than likely left with a local market only and if you follow the market nothing has sold for ages (did notice Kodak had sold, but maybe closer to my sale price than the asking? - skidmarks chime in please).

summery

aussie gem - $250k

aussie good condition - $190 -$210k

RHD import good condition - $130 - $150k

Converted good condition - $90k - $110k

LHD import good condition - difficult sale and colour combo will put some off. Pics would help but you are not going to get more than an import RHD in similar condition so probably max $130k. Likely less.

Apply this logic to the current 930's for sale and most are overpriced by at least $40k, which was exactly the amount I originally overpriced mine by ?

Another great indicator of current values is to see what Symsy offers you and add about 30% :ph34r:

sandy468 · 18April, 2017

Another great indicator of current LHD values is to see what Tomnus paid and subtract about 30% :wacko: :ph34r:

James P · 18April, 2017

Just picked up on this one boys. Late to the party but I don't mind adding a bit of transparency to the 930 debate.
A good Aussie delivered car is currently worth about $200k (+\-$10k) In my opinion and recent experience. Anything north of that and it has to be a very low km special car.
The reality is that 930's are not exactly rare with over 20,000 made.
Imported original RHD in a similar condition I would knock of 25%
converted - less 50%
LHD - as an owner of one I know they are great cars, even if overtaking is a bit of a gamble. But of the 20,000 made, about 18,000 were LHD (I figure about 10% are RHD), so as others have mentioned, anyone overseas is going to be spoilt for choice and is unlikely to be interested.
So you will be more than likely left with a local market only and if you follow the market nothing has sold for ages (did notice Kodak had sold, but maybe closer to my sale price than the asking? - skidmarks chime in please).
summery
aussie gem - $250k
aussie good condition - $190 -$210k
RHD import good condition - $130 - $150k
Converted good condition - $90k - $110k
LHD import good condition - difficult sale and colour combo will put some off. Pics would help but you are not going to get more than an import RHD in similar condition so probably max $130k. Likely less.
Apply this logic to the current 930's for sale and most are overpriced by at least $40k, which was exactly the amount I originally overpriced mine by ?
Another great indicator of current values is to see what Symsy offers you and add about 30%

Your correct with converted good condition price as per my experience when I sold my 930 last year

turboT · 18April, 2017

Another great indicator of current LHD values is to see what Tomnus paid and subtract about 30%

Surprisingly I recon a paid 30% less than would be asking here for a 3.0l turbo. An early demise of the bearded gent should see a bounce back in values :ph34r:

Your correct with converted good condition price as per my experience when I sold my 930 last year

Seems there are quite a number of us with $100k to spend on a toy. Beyond that the pool gets quickly smaller and collectors are only interested in the best examples. Leaves a lot of cars in the market place with no real buyers out there

symsy · 18April, 2017

Just picked up on this one boys. Late to the party but I don't mind adding a bit of transparency to the 930 debate.
A good Aussie delivered car is currently worth about $200k (+\-$10k) In my opinion and recent experience. Anything north of that and it has to be a very low km special car.
The reality is that 930's are not exactly rare with over 20,000 made.
Imported original RHD in a similar condition I would knock of 25%
converted - less 50%
LHD - as an owner of one I know they are great cars, even if overtaking is a bit of a gamble. But of the 20,000 made, about 18,000 were LHD (I figure about 10% are RHD), so as others have mentioned, anyone overseas is going to be spoilt for choice and is unlikely to be interested.
So you will be more than likely left with a local market only and if you follow the market nothing has sold for ages (did notice Kodak had sold, but maybe closer to my sale price than the asking? - skidmarks chime in please).
summery
aussie gem - $250k
aussie good condition - $190 -$210k
RHD import good condition - $130 - $150k
Converted good condition - $90k - $110k
LHD import good condition - difficult sale and colour combo will put some off. Pics would help but you are not going to get more than an import RHD in similar condition so probably max $130k. Likely less.
Apply this logic to the current 930's for sale and most are overpriced by at least $40k, which was exactly the amount I originally overpriced mine by ?
Another great indicator of current values is to see what Symsy offers you and add about 30%

What!! Now your flush , you gonna get rid of the Left Hooker Bronte boys drive P1's in the afternoons …and a Twisted Landy for morning coffee, all english of course . As for my offers , not quite as low as 30% off the market, I respect that you have paid GST on it Tom recently.

But one things for sure .. I agree with you on the valuations.

If any folk out there are for real and do want to turn their perceived precious metal in to cash , I can start to run a Porsche Pawnshop . immediate settlements.

Reality, bites hard beyond a carsales cover up and a keyboard warrior antics, 5 cars kicked , all special , all gonna be gone in a day and all remain 10 days later in my recent travels. Of course all the owners said they would be gone next morning and they had a full grid of buyers.. 3 of them called me back yesterday.. maybe I will leave them a voicemail of me in SPORT mode heading for the Vic High Country, the sound of my money and exhaust heading into the hills.

My suggestion to the ownerof this thread, is still finish it and drive it .. .. worry about its value once you have stopped smiling.. the market is almost in LIMP mode , I suggest you just fill her with 98 and drive

vl gra · 19April, 2017

What is the opinion of the prices of the 86 onwards models that didn't get delivered to OZ? Still the same price of the converted's? A lot of these cars never seem to move.

turboT · 24April, 2017

What is the opinion of the prices of the 86 onwards models that didn't get delivered to OZ? Still the same price of the converted's? A lot of these cars never seem to move.

RHD import good condition - $130 - $150k

LHD - less