Practical, not political

[Redracn]

Just today (as I have many times in the past) I came around a couple of bends and over a crest only to find two Lycra clad road warriors with one well past the center of the lane. I am running the car in so was well under the limit for that bit of road but I still had to wail on the brakes to the extent that rider nearly S#$& themselves. Next time it could be something with crap brakes or a person txting. In this case single file is way safer for the cyclist as it gives the car behind somewhere to go when the S&$# hits the fan as any miss no matter how small is still a miss.  But it seems feeling safe is more important than being safe. 

So I followed these riders for a while (quite a while actually) as it was double lines so I could not legally go around them in VIC. The rear one spent more time looking over his shoulder at me and the six or more cars behind than the road ahead. Anyway I spotted a large roo comming in from the right and dropped back a bit to ensure I missed it. The push bike riders did not see it comming and it missed the front one by  centimeters. If only I had a video running. 

[StevepGT3]

6 minutes ago, Redracn said:

Just today (as I have many times in the past) I came around a couple of bends and over a crest only to find two Lycra clad road worriers with one well past the center of the lane. I am running the car in so was well under the limit for that bit of road but I still had to wail on the brakes to the extent that rider nearly S#$& themselves. Next time it could be something with crap brakes or a person txting. In this case single file is way safer for the cyclist as it gives the car behind somewhere to go when the S&$# hits the fan as any miss no matter how small is still a miss.  But it seems feeling safe is more important than being safe. 

So I followed these riders for a while (quite a while actually) as it was double lines so I could not legally go around them in VIC. The rear one spent more time looking over his shoulder at me and the six or more cars behind than the road ahead. Anyway I spotted a large roo comming in from the right and dropped back a bit to ensure I missed it. The push bike riders did not see it comming and it missed the front one by  centimeters. If only I had a video running. 

That must have been the road up to Mount Pious, as that’s where they all seem to end up.

[Simonk]

Seems to me that it would have been better to post a couple gripes about some cyclists in the “have a vent” thread rather than creating a thread to shit on all cyclists. There are plenty of Porsche enthusiasts that are cyclists as we can see. One thing cyclists and Porsche enthusiasts do have in common is a passion bordering on obsession. 

[Niko]

11 minutes ago, StevepGT3 said:

That must have been the road up to Mount Pious, as that’s where they all seem to end up.

The cyclists or the roos?

[Redracn]

45 minutes ago, StevepGT3 said:

That must have been the road up to Mount Pious, as that’s where they all seem to end up.

Nah just Central VIC.

They were possibly on their way to a cycling event in the area. 

Which brings up a Vent. How do they get away with effectively closing roads for a cycling event with no notice. I was on the affected roads 3 days earlier and there were no signs out etc to warn of the event. I don't mind the roads being closed or effectively closed for special events. I even benefit from full closures myself but not putting closure or event signs out well in advance is just plain rude and inconsiderate. If I had of known about the event I would have avoided the area. I would have been happier as would the cyclist, corner controllers, escort vehicles and organizers. But it seems the stuff everybody attitude starts at the top when it comes to cycling. This is also not the first time I heve driven up a road and come back a day or so latter only to find it closed for a cycling event. 

[Airhead]

5 hours ago, jakroo said:

 and me with my normal wife and our regular 12 yr old son.....
 

Dare I ask if you left the irregular one home alone?

[1q2w3e4r]

1 hour ago, Niko said:

Oh Yeah.....

So I guess that would be like me walking on the shared bike/walking path, when I get passed by some lunatic doing Mach1 on his racing bike,

firstly not bothering to ring a bell or yell out that he's coming up behind me

(maybe pedelling and ringing a bell at the same time is a bit hard for some of these people)

And secondly flying past me at arms length distance or less.......

Yeah, ok Now I see that...

Solution..........maybe people shouldn't be allowed to walk on the walking path.   

The moral of the story is there are responsible people out there in cars and on bikes.

AND.....unfortunately.........there are spankers in/on both ....

 

Got it.  So you don't want them to use the roads, so they use the bike path.  Then you whinge that they don't "yell" they are passing you, that'd be fun.  Yelling when they pass everyone.

Suppose cars should use the horn when passing also. Spare me.

Hey if it's fine for us cyclists to deal with a 1500 kilo car at 60, I reckon you're fine with a 7 kilo bike at 25

[Niko]

19 minutes ago, Simonk said:

Seems to me that it would have been better to post a couple gripes about some cyclists in the “have a vent” thread rather than creating a thread to shit on all cyclists. There are plenty of Porsche enthusiasts that are cyclists as we can see. One thing cyclists and Porsche enthusiasts do have in common is a passion bordering on obsession. 

Personally I think we have probably said enough about this subject.

We've all had our two pence worth.....  

Some of us obviously agree to disagree with the others opinions.

BUT.........What a great country we have here though...

We can still make comments (on some subjects) without being called names, and being accused of being something that your not, for simply having a say on your beliefs are and what your side of the discussion is.

Now I think it's time that we should all have a group Porker hug, tell each other we respect their opinions, hold hands and sing goombyou (or whatever that is) and move on.....

with one condition...

Next time we encounter someone on the roads/paths with differing beliefs than ourselves, that  we all try and do the right thing and give each other a little respect and courtesy and try not to piss each other off, or worse try not to kill each other.

That should last for an hour out so.....but let's try it....

Peace be with you all...

 

 

 

[firstone]

We have a few cycling events in our area.

QSM runs these. I have done 3 for the traffic control part of it. He has trid many companies and each time he refuses to admit how many people are needed for safe work methods. The lack of organization and communications is phenomenal. The people he now uses have submitted to his budget and do the events illegally. He has been reported to worksafe but no action taken. It's only a matter of time until someone is injured.

The locals are ill informed about the closures and vent like you wouldn't believe. 

This is not the competitors fault, but adds to the hatred for those cyclists that use those roads between events. I get on the bike at quiet times when it's safer. 

In 20 years of traffic management I have seen up close the antics of drivers and they still do sh1t that I haven't seen before. 

Drivers are blind, distracted, incompetent, drugged or on their way to get them, angry, have no common sense arrogant and aggressive. 

Be vewy careful out there.

[GC9911]

56 minutes ago, Niko said:

Personally I think we have probably said enough about this subject.

We've all had our two pence worth.....  

Some of us obviously agree to disagree with the others opinions.

BUT.........What a great country we have here though...

We can still make comments (on some subjects) without being called names, and being accused of being something that your not, for simply having a say on your beliefs are and what your side of the discussion is.

Now I think it's time that we should all have a group Porker hug, tell each other we respect their opinions, hold hands and sing goombyou (or whatever that is) and move on.....

with one condition...

Next time we encounter someone on the roads/paths with differing beliefs than ourselves, that  we all try and do the right thing and give each other a little respect and courtesy and try not to piss each other off, or worse try not to kill each other.

That should last for an hour out so.....but let's try it....

Peace be with you all...

 

 

 

I’m with you Niko, time for this thread to die! Over & out.

[TINGY]

Well this exploded didn't it. Been reading this since it got posted, sad state of affairs really, can't believe the amount of hate in some of the posts, if this was on any other forum people on every side would be called every name under the sun, thank god we stick by our forum rules and it's been fairly civil.

Unfortunately there are idiots in every type of vehicle on our roads spoiling my time on the road, oldies, grey nomads towing thier vans and not allowing me to travel at the posted speed limits, people on phones at a green light and then i get held up again, red p platers sitting 5kms under the speed limit, old mate stopped in the middle of the road letting off old duck going to the local bowlo, the silly bugger crossing the road who thinks he can make it before i get to him, got to slow down again.

What about the trucks, one thinks he will overtake the other but it actually takes him 7kms, let's get them off the road......

Back to the cyclists, i was a leg shaving lycra wearing triathlete and club cyclist for many years, loved it and still ride a mountain bike. I ride mainly on the cycleways around Newcastle, and i will call them that because that's what they are,  cycleways.

They were built for cyclists to be able to get off the road and be in a safe environment and not hold up the traffic flow in many towns and cities, unfortunately there are not enough of these around or roads built with good shoulders so the cyclists can be out of the way of traffic

I will gladly share them with pedestrians and i do use my bell but it is largely ineffective, if i am approaching walkers from behind they can't really hear it, i have also been abused for using it, i also mostly yell "right" or "left", depending on which side of the cycleway people are walking, and again i sometimes get abused for that as well.

Why do they abuse me for warning them? So where do you think that's puts me? So a couple of bad apples now get my hackles up and sometimes i don't warn people that i am passing, doesn't make it right but i am entitled to do that, right?

Guess it's the same when the bad apple cyclist abuses a car driver, now the driver sometimes forces his way past a cyclist because most of them will abuse him and he is entitled, right?

[hugh]

I've just been sitting here on the sidelines watching this unfold....................

Essentially, we are taking about peoples behaviour. Whilst laws can help influence behaviour, you cant rely on them to fix what is ultimately the attitudes and subsequent actions of the general public. Behaviour isn't that easy to change. 

The general public is mostly well behaved and do the right thing, it will never, never ever be dickhead free. 

The road is a public place and like any public place you will encounter dickheads. Dickheads take many forms and come in a variety of shapes and sizes, some drive cars, some ride bicycles and some even walk. What we need to remember is that all of these dickheads are just trying to go about their business and are real people that probably won't always dickheads. 

So, be tolerant and kind to the dickheads. They may have just had a bad day, or be running late for work or maybe just wanting to get some exercise? 

The only thing that all of the dickheads have in common, no matter what their preferred method of transportation, understanding of road rules and/or law is that they are all undeniably selfish. 

The attitude of any individual that thinks they have more of a right to occupy a public space than someone else can only be described as selfish. 

I understand that its a hot topic and makes it easy for anyone (including the media) to simply categorise this as cyclist vs motorists but lets try and be a little more intelligent and see it for what it really is - people just being selfish dickheads. 

The road is a public space and whilst the demands on it are increasing so too is the selfishness for those who claim their "rights" to it. The sooner everyone can understand that laws aren't going to simply "fix" the increasing demands and population on our roads and start to use it responsibly as the dangerous pubic domain that it is the better. 

I totally agree with @Niko and feel that we should "all try and do the right thing and give each other a little respect and courtesy and try not to piss each other off, or worse try not to kill each other."

AMEN. 

[Dalai]

3 hours ago, Troubleshooter said:

You don't dare walk two abreast holding up joggers and power walkers in lycra do you Niko?

You don't spend time on shared paths in Melbourne do you Troubleshooter? On my commute I loop in a section of Gardiners Creek Trail - one of the more popular tracks inner East. Most days I will come across many if not all of the following:

Mothers walking their kids to school including prams with the children on foot/scooter/run bike/bike scattered across the whole path. Walkers in groups across the whole path not just the one side. Then are the dog walkers with their pets off leash/on leash or those super long extension walking leads leading across the path and into the bushes!

All I slow down for  - especially the children and dogs as they are very random in their route. Say passing and when the space is there I continue on. It ain't that hard to share with others!

 

[firstone]

When as a boy I watched my father drive, the politeness and courtesy was notable. Drivers looked for ways to make it easier for everyone else.

Now there are what 4x the vehicle's on the road? More?

Life's pace has spiralled. We fit so much into our day we have little time for holdups.

If we don't work out how to play nice the regulators will step in and we'll all something else to have the sh1ts with.

Back in the old days they even used indicators. ? Maybe could discuss that one. ?

[Troubleshooter]

12 minutes ago, Dalai said:

You don't spend time on shared paths in Melbourne do you Troubleshooter? 

 

Yes I do actually dali, quite a bit. On my bike training, on my feet running .... and in my raincoat loitering.

[Gman993]

1 hour ago, hugh said:

I've just been sitting here on the sidelines watching this unfold....................

Essentially, we are taking about peoples behaviour. Whilst laws can help influence behaviour, you cant rely on them to fix what is ultimately the attitudes and subsequent actions of the general public. Behaviour isn't that easy to change. 

The general public is mostly well behaved and do the right thing, it will never, never ever be dickhead free. 

The road is a public place and like any public place you will encounter dickheads. Dickheads take many forms and come in a variety of shapes and sizes, some drive cars, some ride bicycles and some even walk. What we need to remember is that all of these dickheads are just trying to go about their business and are real people that probably won't always dickheads. 

So, be tolerant and kind to the dickheads. They may have just had a bad day, or be running late for work or maybe just wanting to get some exercise? 

The only thing that all of the dickheads have in common, no matter what their preferred method of transportation, understanding of road rules and/or law is that they are all undeniably selfish. 

The attitude of any individual that thinks they have more of a right to occupy a public space than someone else can only be described as selfish. 

I understand that its a hot topic and makes it easy for anyone (including the media) to simply categorise this as cyclist vs motorists but lets try and be a little more intelligent and see it for what it really is - people just being selfish dickheads. 

The road is a public space and whilst the demands on it are increasing so too is the selfishness for those who claim their "rights" to it. The sooner everyone can understand that laws aren't going to simply "fix" the increasing demands and population on our roads and start to use it responsibly as the dangerous pubic domain that it is the better. 

I totally agree with @Niko and feel that we should "all try and do the right thing and give each other a little respect and courtesy and try not to piss each other off, or worse try not to kill each other."

AMEN. 

Very well expressed and I with your thoughts

[Redracn]

This article has some views on new rules that are causing some agro on the roads.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/police-say-giving-cyclists-onemetre-overtaking-gap-would-make-roads-less-safe-20160530-gp7bpq.html

While I generally agree with them I think the min distance while overtaking as done in NSW, QLD, WA, SA, TAS where you can cross double solid lines and drive on painted islands to overtake is a better option for country driving especially in a P car as I will take any excuse to wam on the brakes and belt it out of there. I also get around so fast the cyclists have no idea what just happened. 

But it seems that in VIC leaving an acceptable or any distance means breaking the law where solid lines are concerned. 

States and uniform road rules would need a thread of its own.

[StevepGT3]

It’s all hypothetical anyway, as no one on this forum would ever do anything to cause ire on either side of the fence.

[Dalai]

3 hours ago, Redracn said:

Which brings up a Vent. How do they get away with effectively closing roads for a cycling event with no notice. I was on the affected roads 3 days earlier and there were no signs out etc to warn of the event. I don't mind the roads being closed or effectively closed for special events. I even benefit from full closures myself but not putting closure or event signs out well in advance is just plain rude and inconsiderate.

In regards to signage prior to events, there is rarely any funds for such things. And when there is and some signs have been put out early they often get vandalised or stolen! Most if not all races are run by volunteers from small local cycling clubs. No one from the clubs are paid. A fair chunk of the small race entry fees go to Cycling Vic for race commissaires, the rest of the small pool going to prize money.

The days of on road cycling events will soon be over anyway. It is getting harder every day to get approvals from VicRoads, the Police and local councils. Never have we got full road closures - always the races are on open roads, just with the additional approved road signage and lead and follow cars trying to protect the bunches.

I have been the race director twice for my clubs races out near Warburton a number of years ago, the second year the race was even included in the Victorian Road Series (though I wasn't there on the day to actually run the show as I'd just broken my collarbone racing on the velodrome). The work for the following year started immediately after the race had finished. From the Traffic Management Plans being drawn up and approved by VicRoads and the police. Approval from the multiple councils the races went through. Contacting the bus company. Making the residents / shops aware of the event. Then there is organising the volunteer traffic controllers, Lead and follow cars, corner marshals and others to run the event. Also on top of that trying to find some sponsorship... Hundreds of volunteer hours behind the scenes!

 

[Stew F]

11 hours ago, cafe_racer said:

enlightened Porsche enthusiasts.  

 

Be tolerant people, life can't be that bad that two cyclist riding alongside each other warrants this much anger.

Enlightened Porsche enthusiasts?  Good one. Most of them aren't enlightened enough to change a f'kin spark plug.

I agree with your last comment.  I don't give a rat's arse what other people do. I just go about my day to day life. If someone else's behaviour affects me I just let them know, and then I move on.  Life's too short to be angry about pointless shit.

[Niko]

16 hours ago, 1q2w3e4r said:

Got it.  So you don't want them to use the roads, so they use the bike path.  Then you whinge that they don't "yell" they are passing you, that'd be fun.  Yelling when they pass everyone.

Suppose cars should use the horn when passing also. Spare me.

Hey if it's fine for us cyclists to deal with a 1500 kilo car at 60, I reckon you're fine with a 7 kilo bike at 25

I really wasn't going to go any further on this thread but felt I just had to address this comment.

Firstly... I have never said I don't want bikes on the roads.  

However......I would like bike riders to use common sense on the particular roads they may be using at the time.

                      The same as I would expect car and motor cycle drivers/riders would do 

Secondly....I have no problem with bikes using the shared path.  I think it's great actually.  I ride my bike on it too.

Thirdly......I'm not "whinging" that they don't yell "passing". 

It is a suggested, courteous and accepted way of warning pedestrians. (refer to third photo below "BELL  or VOICE)

I think all bikes by law (I may be wrong) are supposed to have a bell?  

If they don't  have a bell the next warning that I can think of, is "yelling" out  "passing on the right etc etc"

Sorry, if that embarrasses you, but I think you will find the majority of walkers, a lot of them elderly appreciate the warning.

It helps cyclists have a clear run and also assists pedestrians knowing the bike is coming through.

Your comparison to using a car horn when passing a cyclist is ridiculous.

And if you think the cyclists are travelling at 25 KMPH on a 800 or 900 metre stretch of flat shared path, you obviously don't use shared paths, if you do....you need a new bike because yours is too slow.

Certainly join in the conversation, but try and contribute in a manner that adds to the debate without using comments that are ill founded.

Thats it for me.... this thread has now been done to death (no pun intended).

Get out and enjoy your bikes and your cars and lets try and get on with each other...

 

[Redracn]

12 hours ago, Dalai said:

In regards to signage prior to events, there is rarely any funds for such things. And when there is and some signs have been put out early they often get vandalised or stolen! Most if not all races are run by volunteers from small local cycling clubs. No one from the clubs are paid. A fair chunk of the small race entry fees go to Cycling Vic for race commissaires, the rest of the small pool going to prize money.

The days of on road cycling events will soon be over anyway. It is getting harder every day to get approvals from VicRoads, the Police and local councils. Never have we got full road closures - always the races are on open roads, just with the additional approved road signage and lead and follow cars trying to protect the bunches.

I have been the race director twice for my clubs races out near Warburton a number of years ago, the second year the race was even included in the Victorian Road Series (though I wasn't there on the day to actually run the show as I'd just broken my collarbone racing on the velodrome). The work for the following year started immediately after the race had finished. From the Traffic Management Plans being drawn up and approved by VicRoads and the police. Approval from the multiple councils the races went through. Contacting the bus company. Making the residents / shops aware of the event. Then there is organising the volunteer traffic controllers, Lead and follow cars, corner marshals and others to run the event. Also on top of that trying to find some sponsorship... Hundreds of volunteer hours behind the scenes!

 

Perhaps the winners could give up their prize money  for a small trophy and put the rest towards a better relationship with locals and other road users.  It seems to me that it will be poor management that leads to the loss of roads to use.

In any case it looks like a list of excuses for not doing what they know is the right thing to do. 

14 hours ago, GC9911 said:

I’m with you Niko, time for this thread to die! Over & out.

Is this a form of censorship by trying to close down a civil discussion about a topic that affects all road users? 

[Dalai]

23 minutes ago, Redracn said:

Perhaps the winners could give up their prize money  for a small trophy and put the rest towards a better relationship with locals and other road users. 

Like what? Signs as mentioned above if put out early have been vandalized or stolen. We contacted the local paper prior and also letter dropped locals living on the streets we were using.

The racing you were referring to last weekend would have been the Country and Metro Road Championships run by the Castlemaine Cycling Club held at Harcourt. You live in Bendigo 30km away! Were you expecting a letter drop too? There are cyclists ahead signs permanently set up in that area as it is a popular area for cyclists already, so you shouldn't be surprised to meet riders out that way.

We had a budget of a few thousand dollars of which much went to the race commissaires supplied by Cycling Vic and getting the Traffic Management Plans drawn up. The remaining  money wouldn't cover the hire of even one of those large road side billboards! Prizes were mostly gift vouchers from the Sponsors we were lucky to obtain. Not sure how giving vouchers for cycling shops to motorists would help build better relationships? Local shops were supportive as it brought people to their towns!

[Redracn]

1 hour ago, Dalai said:

Like what? Signs as mentioned above if put out early have been vandalized or stolen. We contacted the local paper prior and also letter dropped locals living on the streets we were using.

The racing you were referring to last weekend would have been the Country and Metro Road Championships run by the Castlemaine Cycling Club held at Harcourt. You live in Bendigo 30km away! Were you expecting a letter drop too? There are cyclists ahead signs permanently set up in that area as it is a popular area for cyclists already, so you shouldn't be surprised to meet riders out that way.

We had a budget of a few thousand dollars of which much went to the race commissaires supplied by Cycling Vic and getting the Traffic Management Plans drawn up. The remaining  money wouldn't cover the hire of even one of those large road side billboards! Prizes were mostly gift vouchers from the Sponsors we were lucky to obtain. Not sure how giving vouchers for cycling shops to motorists would help build better relationships? Local shops were supportive as it brought people to their towns!

Quoting vandalism is an excuse. I have seen signs put out a month or more in advance for other events and they are still there on the day albeit well weathered. If it is stolen replace it. If it keeps happening install a hidden trail camera. 

I drive on the roads in question regularly as do many others that use them for their business that are not local but could easily be informed by some signs. So to say we don't need to be informed is another excuse. 

Budget? Just another excuse. Charge more and consider it part of the cost for the privilege of using the road to the exclusion/annoyance of others. Carbon bikes, latest riding gear, flash cars to get them there but can’t cover a viable entry fee? 

If you want respect from other road users then showing some may help. 

I didn't say give cycling vouchers to motorists but that may help everbody likes a gift and it could get them into a cycling shop and you never know a few might go to the dark side?. 

[cafe_racer]

4 minutes ago, Redracn said:

Quoting vandalism is an excuse. I have seen signs put out a month or more in advance for other events and they are still there on the day albeit well weathered. If it is stolen replace it. If it keeps happening install a hidden trail camera. 

I drive on the roads in question regularly as do many others that use them for their business that are not local but could easily be informed by some signs. So to say we don't need to be informed is another excuse. 

Budget? Just another excuse. Charge more and consider it part of the cost for the privilege of using the road to the exclusion/annoyance of others. Carbon bikes, latest riding gear, flash cars to get them there but can’t cover a viable entry fee? 

If you want respect from other road users then showing some may help. 

I didn't say give cycling vouchers to motorists but that may help everbody likes a gift and it could get them into a cycling shop and you never know a few might go to the dark side?. 

Redracn, you're really grasping at straws here with the only suceess being to make yourself look inteolerant of even the slightest disruption no matter how well intentioned.