Practical, not political

[JV911]

On 5/31/2018 at 8:56 PM, Gavin (CliffToCoast) said:

Cyclists here  - can someone let me know why it's safer to ride two abreast or in packs. 

Here is your answer:

On 5/31/2018 at 10:49 PM, Dalai said:

it also encourages drivers to actually move out of the lane to overtake rather than squeezing past unthinkingly close or worse an intentional punishment pass!

__________________________

It pisses me off just as much when a cyclist runs a red or does something else stupid. One because it is stupid and dangerous to them and others, but also because it feeds the generalizations which tar us all with the same brush.

Couldn't agree more! It's d!ckheads like these that give everyone else a bad name. It's funny though that the same reasoning isn't applied to drivers i.e. when people see a driver run a red (which I see every day without fail) they don't automatically think that all drivers are red light running maniacs. 

As per Hugh's point, cycling represents a cross section of society, so naturally you'll get a certain % of knobs. 

17 hours ago, TINGY944 said:

can't believe the amount of hate in some of the posts, 

This forum is, thankfully, pretty tame. Others, including mainstream media are horrible, and FB is just a cesspool. If some of the things said about cyclists were said about <insert minority group here>, people would be up on discrimination charges.

 

16 hours ago, hugh said:

The road is a public place and like any public place you will encounter dickheads. Dickheads take many forms and come in a variety of shapes and sizes, some drive cars, some ride bicycles and some even walk...

As usual Hugh, you nailed it with that post.

As for rego, we all know very well that doesn't pay for roads - taxes do. But I would happily pay for a nominal fee if it will kill off that nonsensical argument. 

[Redracn]

1 hour ago, cafe_racer said:

Redracn, you're really grasping at straws here with the only suceess being to make yourself look inteolerant of even the slightest disruption no matter how well intentioned. 

You must be another cyclist that has no idea why cyclists of the lycra clad type sit at the very top of the most despised road user list.  You also seem to have no argument to the points I raise.

 

A slight disruption is having signs out on the day at points where a detour is possible. But even that seems to be too much trouble for the organisers. 

[cafe_racer]

9 minutes ago, Redracn said:

You must be another cyclist that has no idea why cyclists of the lycra clad type sit at the very bottom of the most despised road user list.  You also seem to have no argument to the points I raise.

 

A slight disruption is having signs out on the day at points where a detour is possible. But even that seems to be too much trouble for the organisers. 

I think you'll find being at the bottom of the most despised list is a good place to be...Add incoherance to intolerance. 

[Dalai]

24 minutes ago, Redracn said:

A slight disruption is having signs out on the day at points where a detour is possible. But even that seems to be too much trouble for the organisers. 

There will be signs out at all significant intersections as stipulated in the Approved Traffic Management Plan. These include but not restricted to cyclist Race in Progress 90 metres from intersections plus every 5km, Speed reduction signs leading to at intersections. prepare to stop etc plus the required Traffic Controllers and Corner Marshals. Our club has a double axle enclosed trailer full of signs which go out on race morning.

3 hours ago, Redracn said:

Is this a form of censorship by trying to close down a civil discussion about a topic that affects all road users? 

Not censorship. Just now 5 pages of posts where we are going over the same points. Pretty obvious nothing said will change either 'sides' opinion.

[Redracn]

2 minutes ago, cafe_racer said:

I think you'll find being at the bottom of the most despised list is a good place to be...Add incoherance to intolerance. 

I see you have no more points to make relative to the thread title.  

You do realise that in all states except VIC cyclists on the road are now effectively considered an “obstruction” allowing all other vehicles to cross double and single solid lines and drive on painted islands to go around them.

 

1 minute ago, Dalai said:

There will be signs out at all significant intersections as stipulated in the Approved Traffic Management Plan. These include but not restricted to cyclist Race in Progress 90 metres from intersections plus every 5km, Speed reduction signs leading to at intersections. prepare to stop etc plus the required Traffic Controllers and Corner Marshals.

Not censorship. Just now 5 pages of posts were we are going over the same points. Pretty obvious nothing said will change either 'sides' opinion.

You are right about the signs you have described on the course. But as I said there was no signage on the day at intersections outside of the immediate course area where you could make a decision to avoid the event roads. By the time you knew that anything was going on you are right in amongst it.

The signage was solely for the traffic management of the event nothing more and there was nothing to help other road users avoid the event roads. 

[cafe_racer]

2 minutes ago, Redracn said:

I see you have no more points to make relative to the thread title.  

You do realise that in all states except VIC cyclists on the road are now effectively considered an “obstruction” allowing all other vehicles to cross double and single solid lines and drive on painted islands to go around them.

 

A slight factual omission on your behalf here.  All other states except Victoria have minimum safe overtaking distances for cars to observe when passing cyclists.  If a car goes too close to a cyclist whilst overtaking they are subject to a fine and demerit point penalty.  Allowing vehicles to cross lines is a concession to keep the roads safer for all users.  Thanks for making a point for me in that regulatory change is one way to shift behaviour in the right direction in lieu of compassion.

[Simonk]

So maybe Vic Roads is at the heart of the issue? Bring in minimum passing distance as per the other states and allow crossing of double/solid lines when overtaking cyclists.  Maybe VicRoads should be responsible for advertising road closures also. It's their road, they approved the closure. So, what if we also add single file only as a law and we also add compulsory registration for cyclists (without opening the mine field of what age does it start at and if every bike owned needs to be separately registered) Any other bike specific laws we want to add? Then with all these laws in place, are we happy to share the road with cyclists? I doubt it...

One things for sure, this thread highlights that the showdown between cyclists and motorists will never go away in this country. Not for generations at least.

[Redracn]

17 minutes ago, cafe_racer said:

A slight factual omission on your behalf here.  All other states except Victoria have minimum safe overtaking distances for cars to observe when passing cyclists.  If a car goes too close to a cyclist whilst overtaking they are subject to a fine and demerit point penalty.  Allowing vehicles to cross lines is a concession to keep the roads safer for all users.  Thanks for making a point for me in that regulatory change is one way to shift behaviour in the right direction in lieu of compassion.

The vast majority of drivers including myself have always given cyclists plenty of clearance. After all cyclists don't make good hood ornaments. The new laws simply allow drivers to get past in way more places and not break the law.

Do you think that it is possible that the VIC law forces motoristis closer to a cyclist than they would otherwise go? And they can legally be very close. 

These laws are as much if not more of a win for motorists as in VIC (oldlaw) it is not possible to get by a cyclist at all on many country roads without breaking the law (fine and demerits) 

 

[1q2w3e4r]

Not worth it

[Simonk]

Seems like there's plenty of cyclists here. Maybe we should organise a group ride one weekend. We could finish up at Dak Dak for breakfast and a coffee and have a car meet at the same time. Show the car world that Porsche owners support sharing the road with cyclists HA HA!!!

[MR901]

Great idea Simon, then give the cyclists a 30min head start home. The drivers can smile & wave as they pass the cyclists in the appropriate manner....get a news camera there & will be a PR win for all involved...ha ha

[TINGY]

22 minutes ago, LeeM said:

  I think enough has been said on a topic that has been covered over and over on this forum with the same posts. Time to lock the thread admin? 

I don't think it should be locked, whilst it is a lively discussion and it seems some people will never be moved from their position about their opinion on cyclists, no harm done really.

It really shows that Aussies and it seems more so, Melbournians, have a distinct dislike for cyclists out and about on our roads. 

I have ridden with dickheads and they were never asked on our rides again, i have also driven with dickheads, in Porsche's and i can honestly say i won't go driving with them again either.

[Redracn]

The vicroads site has some data but I have found it to be very inaccurate. Same with the NSW one which is way better to use than the VIC one. The VIC one needs an SMS facility for nearby issues/events. They could just use the Emergency services technology.  

https://traffic.vicroads.vic.gov.au/

Also vicroads only deals with the roads they are responsible for.

https://vicroadsmaps.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=e8fa54687853433eb58e51584b36f681

 

[1q2w3e4r]

Interesting read

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/extremist-motorists-trolling-cyclists-on-the-road-and-online-20180530-p4zigf.html

[LeeM]

1 hour ago, TINGY944 said:

I don't think it should be locked, whilst it is a lively discussion and it seems some people will never be moved from their position about their opinion on cyclists, no harm done really

  Spose I'm just over the incessant cyclist v car drivers discussions on the internet. I'll just not read it ? Carry on

[Dalai]

I just don't read the comments anytime a news article has something to do with bicycles... Just too depressing to read the vitriol displayed towards other human beings!

[jakroo]

On 6/3/2018 at 5:40 PM, Airhead said:

Dare I ask if you left the irregular one home alone?

no, we only have the one child.  The formula used is  typical male + normal female = regular child

 

Funny observation though!

[firstone]

Human beings are by nature communal creatures, they group together with like types.

They also by nature exclude other humans that aren't like themselves. This strengthens and protects the group ensuring survival.

Exclusion ranges in ferocity depending on the perceived threat level to the group.

This is ' by nature.'

Natural instincts can be overpowered by determined changing of ones mind SET.

Set your mind to whatever you wish to achieve has produced many marvels. Disturbingly used against one another has produced horrifying cruelty throughout history.

What you set YOUR mind to determines who and what you are and who and what you become.

As Hugh said, or similar,  'we can't get rid of the selfish dickheads in the world.'

So in my mind the best we can do is reduce the amount of dickheads. Or try to shake it off when I meet one.

It can't only be me that has noticed that when I act like a dickhead I am bound to find other dickheads. If I keep it up I'll find so many I'll presume everyone's a dickhead.

 If I have good people around me they'll let me know I'm being a dickhead and I might snap out of it.

Or I could just be a dickhead and keep it up because I've come to get a rush in my brain from it. I'm hooked.

F@#k it I like being a dickhead. Makes my feel good to treat others like sh1t.

Give a dickead a wide berth or you might be drawn in.

Where's that comedy video I think hugh? posted on another cycling thread? Says it way better.

Anyway, have a bloody laugh eh.

13 minutes ago, firstone said:

Human beings are by nature communal creatures, they group together with like types.

They also by nature exclude other humans that aren't like themselves. This strengthens and protects the group ensuring survival.

Exclusion ranges in ferocity depending on the perceived threat level to the group.

This is ' by nature.'

Natural instincts can be overpowered by determined changing of ones mind SET.

Set your mind to whatever you wish to achieve has produced many marvels. Disturbingly used against one another has produced horrifying cruelty throughout history.

What you set YOUR mind to determines who and what you are and who and what you become.

As Hugh said, or similar,  'we can't get rid of the selfish dickheads in the world.'

So in my mind the best we can do is reduce the amount of dickheads. Or try to shake it off when I meet one.

It can't only be me that has noticed that when I act like a dickhead I am bound to find other dickheads. If I keep it up I'll find so many I'll presume everyone's a dickhead.

 If I have good people around me they'll let me know I'm being a dickhead and I might snap out of it.

Or I could just be a dickhead and keep it up because I've come to get a rush in my brain from it. I'm hooked.

F@#k it I like being a dickhead. Makes my feel good to treat others like sh1t.

Give a dickead a wide berth or you might be drawn in.

Where's that comedy video I think hugh? posted on another cycling thread? Says it way better.

Anyway, have a bloody laugh eh. We're human.

 

[T-Man]

12 minutes ago, firstone said:

........... So in my mind the best we can do is reduce the amount of dickheads. Or try to shake it off when I meet one.

It can't only be me that has noticed that when I act like a dickhead I am bound to find other dickheads. If I keep it up I'll find so many I'll presume everyone's a dickhead.

 If I have good people around me they'll let me know I'm being a dickhead and I might snap out of it...... 

Wiser man than me once said... "You are the average of your 5 best freinds."

Best not to hang with dickheads?

[firstone]

What's the other one?

If you can't identify the dickhead amongst your friends there's a good chance it's you. ?

[StevepGT3]

1 hour ago, T-Man said:

 

Best not to hang with dickheads?

Does that mean you are out for the next high country run?

[T-Man]

36 minutes ago, StevepGT3 said:

Does that mean you are out for the next high country run?

Like I said.... You are the average of your 5 best mates.... QED ?

[GC9911]

Guy’s, can we move on?

This thread is done to death.

It’s obvious there are differing opinions & everyone is entitled to their point of view.

In the perfect world we would all agree & be in vanilla heaven.

This is a Porsche car forum, enough said!

 

[Redracn]

Now G no disrespect but you could simply stop reading couldn't you rather than your contribution being to try and shut a thread down. ? How would it be if we all called for a thread we did not approve of to be shut down. 

[GC9911]

3 minutes ago, Redracn said:

Now G no disrespect but you could simply stop reading couldn't you rather than your contribution being to try and shut a thread down. ? How would it be if we all called for a thread we did not approve of to be shut down. 

Point taken Al, your right, I just don’t think it’s contributing to the community.