IMS 996 question for the Illuminati.

[Jason E]

I am going to have the IMS done (IMS soution - oil fed-  permenant fix) as I just don't have the readies or risk tolerance for the possibility of being in the 1 to 5% of catastrophov failures. 

I have watched @MFX video on IMS replacement (manual car/ unsure if tipper is substantially different).  I have also watched a few Youtube (fontofallknowledge) vids re IMS replacement.

All these show a punter doing the IMS on a hoist dropping the transmission only (engine stays in) & replacing the IMS solution, then replacing trans & smiling all round.

My question is, I have obtained a quote from a 'respected' indie here in Brisbane.  Quote allows for 12 hours approx to drop out the engine & gearbox, seperate gearbox & drive plate, secure cam shafts, complete IMS replacement, replace rear main seal, fit new cam plugs, fit new engine oil separator & refit everything.  Parts for IMS solution is quoted at $2670 plus GST $2937.00, labour is $1820.  Total $4757 approx.

Does the engine need to come out?  Or is this "excessive"?  I have little engine knowledge so am just making sure I am educated before accepting quotes. 

Thanks in advance. 

[firstone]

I've not heard of anyone removing the engine for the ims. I can't think of any advantage of doing it out of the car.

[Fishcop]

I've got the receipts for the IMS Solution/RMS/AOS done on mine in 2019 - about $1k cheaper than your quote, but mine's manual which I understand is less labour than a tipper.  I also think Sydney has a few more tech options, so there is maybe a little competition to bring the price down?

[tomo]

The price sounds about right, mine was done 5 years ago, Ims Solution was just under 2k All up with a new Rms fitted was a tad over 5K. And a Tipy.

[luzzo]

18 minutes ago, Jason E said:

Does the engine need to come out? 

Recently been speaking with PR Technology (Sydney) regarding 996 IMS replacement. They removed the engine for a recent job which was also the "Solution' oil fed option... No other major reason they mentioned for engine out, but whilst it was, they also did various other tasks and preventative type maintenance. 

[Fishcop]

12 minutes ago, firstone said:

I've not heard of anyone removing the engine for the ims. I can't think of any advantage of doing it out of the car.

"Back in the day", I always pulled the engine and gearbox together on AC cars - much quicker and easier.  And then you had the luxury of being able to service anything 'whilst it was out'.  I imagine these newer/WC cars are much different, all the photos I've seen have just had the gearbox pulled.

[MARTY]

A bit more work with a tipper over a manual which means more $$ I had the lm engineering replacement which I think was about $2500

[Jason E]

14 minutes ago, luzzo said:

Recently been speaking with PR Technology (Sydney) regarding 996 IMS replacement. They removed the engine for a recent job which was also the "Solution' oil fed option... No other major reason they mentioned for engine out, but whilst it was, they also did various other tasks and preventative type maintenance. 

would you/ could you list the other preventative measures please?  Just for interest sake in case I may want to incoporate the "while you're there" stuff........ 

[firstone]

My pick for other would be waterpump, AOS and thermostat. 

[Rob H]

I know mine is different to a 996 but I had talked with Buik's in Adelaide and they said my 986S would be easier as it was a manual and thus no need to remove the motor.

[Jason E]

57 minutes ago, Rob H said:

I know mine is different to a 996 but I had talked with Buik's in Adelaide and they said my 986S would be easier as it was a manual and thus no need to remove the motor.

thx @Rob H, I might just ring Buiks & ask the question re difference between manual & tipper.  Cheers.

[tomo]

Just thought  I check the paper work  from the Ims soultion  being fitted, It is quite  a detailed account of work  done , And all work was done with the engine in the car.

[st3ve]

As I understand it, manuals can be done with engine still in, but tippers require the engine and gearbox to be removed as a unit.  There must be something that prevents removing the gearbox from the engine in situ??  I've also heard that replacing the AOS is hard but possible on a manual, but an engine out job in a tipper, so there's evidently generally less space to work.  That agrees with what your shop has quoted you.

"While you're at it" list could include:
AOS
Coolant reservoir and cap
Waterpump/t'stat (if original, also perhaps install low temp t'stat??)
Oil filler tube (breaks with age and hard to change in situ)
Perhaps injectors (a bore scoring culprit according to FSI)
Oil pump hex drive (if you're really paranoid, it's not clear how real this issue is)

Check all over-engine pipes/hoses when engine is out and replace any suspect ones.  The UK crowd seem to have a set list of hard pipes to replace due to corrosion but it doesn't seem to be an issue here with our dry climate.  Check AC pipes have not been crushed near front right pickup point.

[tomo]

My car is a tipper and the motor was not removed, I think it is as @Fishcop says it is how Tech goes about his work. 

[luzzo]

5 hours ago, Jason E said:

would you/ could you list the other preventative measures please?  Just for interest sake in case I may want to incoporate the "while you're there" stuff........ 

Hey @Jason E,   Yes, for sure: 

As per @firstone & @st3ve, the expected items 'whilst out' were:

Replace water pump; 

Oil vapour separator (AOS); 

NB. I noticed your quote for IMS solution is $2670.

I checked the Invoice price of the IMS kit for you = $1450 + Gst and it was the 'Solution' as it mentions 'remove exhaust system and oil pump to fit oil feed in IMS'

However, it seems there were quite a few other items done

Oxygen sensor; 

Ignition coils; 

Tailshaft coupling; 

Engine mounts; 

Repair starter motor wiring (Chewed by rats 😝);

Attend to oil leak on top of engine.

Couple of these may well have been the reason for engine out  😳

Hope that may help.

 

[MFX]

6 hours ago, Fishcop said:

"Back in the day", I always pulled the engine and gearbox together on AC cars - much quicker and easier.  And then you had the luxury of being able to service anything 'whilst it was out'.  I imagine these newer/WC cars are much different, all the photos I've seen have just had the gearbox pulled.

On AC cars you can't take the gearbox out without dropping the whole engine, trust me I made that mistake

[Fishcop]

44 minutes ago, MFX said:

On AC cars you can't take the gearbox out without dropping the whole engine, trust me I made that mistake

That's right.  But I also watched guys try and pull the engine on its own... Far too awkward!

[sjm]

There is an episode of Wheeler Dealers in the USA doing the IMS solution on  996 cab. Ed China went through the process of doing the whole job. Only the gearbox was removed but it was a manual. Look on YouTube for the episode and it will give a idea of what’s involved.

[michel]

@Jason E While you’re at it… Underdrive pulley? No

[Carrera28]

4 hours ago, sjm said:

There is an episode of Wheeler Dealers in the USA doing the IMS solution on  996 cab. Ed China went through the process of doing the whole job. Only the gearbox was removed but it was a manual. Look on YouTube for the episode and it will give a idea of what’s involved.

 

[Rod C]

Mine is a Tip and was done with the engine left in.

[Jason E]

So, I got my car back Friday morning from the Brisbane Porsche Indie that did my post purchase maintenance work (brake refresh/ major service/ transmission service/ bump stops etc).

I had asked him to give an estimate on the IMS (LN solution, oil fed - permanent fix) & I asked him about doing the job engine in or engine out.

He said he prefers to do the job engine out as it is "quicker" (in his words) & you get a better sense of the condition of the engine & can see if any other "while you're in there" jobs are required.

The verbal estimate was - factor $6000 for the IMS & the other peripheral jobs & you'll be on the mark.

I got the impression that the job can be done with the engine in on both manual & Tip but that it is harder to access certain parts of the engine. 

I would suggest that it is preferable for the tech to do the job engine out for access just more expensive for the owner re labour.  Though possibly "quicker" as less mucking around getting to things.  Either way 6k is a lot of money to pull out a bearing that is "most likely" working perfectly.😀😬 

[tomo]

Thats not bad mine cost $5750 5 years ago , And don't forget a genuine LN bearing solution kit is $ 1895 US, Good luck with what ever you decide 👍

[Dreamr]

46 minutes ago, Jason E said:

So, I got my car back Friday morning from the Brisbane Porsche Indie that did my post purchase maintenance work (brake refresh/ major service/ transmission service/ bump stops etc).

I had asked him to give an estimate on the IMS (LN solution, oil fed - permanent fix) & I asked him about doing the job engine in or engine out.

He said he prefers to do the job engine out as it is "quicker" (in his words) & you get a better sense of the condition of the engine & can see if any other "while you're in there" jobs are required.

The verbal estimate was - factor $6000 for the IMS & the other peripheral jobs & you'll be on the mark.

I got the impression that the job can be done with the engine in on both manual & Tip but that it is harder to access certain parts of the engine. 

I would suggest that it is preferable for the tech to do the job engine out for access just more expensive for the owner re labour.  Though possibly "quicker" as less mucking around getting to things.  Either way 6k is a lot of money to pull out a bearing that is "most likely" working perfectly.😀😬 

It’s the old insurance argument.... why should I pay it every year when I’ve never made a claim .. 

Then you need to make a claim and it’s the best thing in the world! ...

As these cars get older and more k’s get added, the more the worry about the IMS.

My car had it done in 2011 and has only done 20,000 odd k’s since then. According to the bearing people, it’s supposed to be done every 5 years. What a racket .. 

[Jason E]

32 minutes ago, Dreamr said:

It’s the old insurance argument.... why should I pay it every year when I’ve never made a claim .. 

Then you need to make a claim and it’s the best thing in the world! ...

As these cars get older and more k’s get added, the more the worry about the IMS.

My car had it done in 2011 and has only done 20,000 odd k’s since then. According to the bearing people, it’s supposed to be done every 5 years. What a racket .. 

Agreed mate,  while the "5 year fix" is not quite half the price of the LN solution I think I'd rather do it once & get it right.