Whats for sale (in Australia ) and interesting Thread

[TINGY]

At the moment: 

Project - Sub $10k 

Ok car - $10k ~  Needs work, cosmetics, mechanical, dubious history, fair paint

Very good - $15k ~ Books, Aussie car, presents well, not much needed, but might have had paint work etc

Excellent $20k~+  Books, Aussie car, excellent original condition, desirable combination (i.e. two tone paint, pasha trim, sunroof delete etc)

IMHO edgy i think you are 5-6k over in your estimates given the prices of 944's at the moment.

For me a 924 even a 944 project (meaning something that I will be spending a considerable amount of money on) would have to be sub 5k and 7k respectively.

And not so sure a very good example is 15k, to me a turbo is definitely upwards of 15k depending on the model.

[turboT]

we have Tasmanians 

and they have Jacqie Lambie...

[LeeM]

You're obsessed with her Tom 

[ANF]

and they have Jacqie Lambie...

But do we want her.. HELL NO!!

[tazzieman]

And why would I go to Spain for the beaches when we have the best beaches here in Sydney? Anyway, they will keep letting me in as I have an Oz passport 

Aren't they being worn away,  and the sand swirling down south to enlarge those of unpopulated climes? Luckily , needles sink in salty water 

[turboT]

You're obsessed with her Tom 

After this weekend it has been confirmed that the the 'simple' majority should be given a general competency test (tying shoe laces, putting pants on - stuff like that) before being shown a picture of their favorite colour yellow. They will then be texted a message to say that it is actually blue. When asked what colour they are looking at, if they answer 'blue,' they should be deemed a minor, disallowed from voting and required to go back to school for a minimum of 5 years and let the tax payers who actually finance most of their lives get on with making the big decisions. Lambie is the Queen of the clowns

[edgy]

IMHO edgy i think you are 5-6k over in your estimates given the prices of 944's at the moment.

For me a 924 even a 944 project (meaning something that I will be spending a considerable amount of money on) would have to be sub 5k and 7k respectively.

And not so sure a very good example is 15k, to me a turbo is definitely upwards of 15k depending on the model.

I'm just going on recent known sales, this is for turbo only mind you... not NA. NA is a bit harder to value, more common but pristine examples are scarce. 

 

[sandy468]

Still a few hours to take a punt ...or a loss

[SimonN]

You'd be mad to ship a car OS for work unless it was to get a completely finished 'product' like Singer where they have clearly defined standards and expectations.  Not sure how well that mustang workshop in the Phillipines goes, I've seen them advertising.

yes, Australia is expensive, never used to be like that back in the old days. Too many regs appear to be the cause, or maybe it's because it's more lucrative to fix mining equipment.  Seems the pommies - for whatever crazy reason - seem to be able to fix cars for less.  I'm constantly amazed at the prices for things like wheel refurbishment, paint fixes and retrims on wheeler dealers.  Maybe there are just more guys able to do the work, so more competition.  Maybe there's just an oversupply of old Victorian factories to setup shop in.

I'd chuck it all in and start a resto-mod workshop tomorrow if I had the capital base and experience to do so.  

 

Forgetting for one minute, the discussion about whether to send a car overseas for work, the situation in the UK is very different from here. I just checked 911 & Porsche World for ads, and there were 34 general Porsche specialists advertising, most of who I know of and who have decent reputations. Add the specialist body shops, engine builders, gearbox builders etc and you are close to 40. Then add something like 6 parts specialists. And that is only the ones who have advertised. I could add another 5 to the list without even trying, 2 of which I used to go to. All in an area smaller than NSW! I guess that much competition must have some effect on prices. 

Wages and the overall cost of employing people here are also very high and the financial expectation of business owners is, I believe, higher as well. I am not saying it is a bad thing, just a fact. It doesn't just apply to cars. I was deeply shocked at the costs of construction - when I first arrived in 2007, a high quality house would cost something like 30-35% more to build in Sydney than in London. I think that premium has potentially widened. Some of it is materials, but the profit expectations of the builder are higher here than in the UK. I have needed to completely reset my pricing expectations of construction work here.

I understand the reticence to send a car overseas, but if I wanted to do a $75,000 project, I would seriously consider it. I do have the advantage of knowing the companies in the UK and having friends who can keep an eye on things, plus I would time it to coincide with a trip over there. However, I have no intention of doing such a project any time soon!! 

[TINGY]

Yep i see, i didn't read it properly, you are probably right edgy, not many turbo's about either so it's hard to guage the whole 924 market at the moment, the front engines are certainly getting some love ATM though

[Coastr]

Forgetting for one minute, the discussion about whether to send a car overseas for work, the situation in the UK is very different from here. I just checked 911 & Porsche World for ads, and there were 34 general Porsche specialists advertising, most of who I know of and who have decent reputations. Add the specialist body shops, engine builders, gearbox builders etc and you are close to 40. Then add something like 6 parts specialists. And that is only the ones who have advertised. I could add another 5 to the list without even trying, 2 of which I used to go to. All in an area smaller than NSW! I guess that much competition must have some effect on prices. 

Wages and the overall cost of employing people here are also very high and the financial expectation of business owners is, I believe, higher as well. I am not saying it is a bad thing, just a fact. It doesn't just apply to cars. I was deeply shocked at the costs of construction - when I first arrived in 2007, a high quality house would cost something like 30-35% more to build in Sydney than in London. I think that premium has potentially widened. Some of it is materials, but the profit expectations of the builder are higher here than in the UK. I have needed to completely reset my pricing expectations of construction work here.

I understand the reticence to send a car overseas, but if I wanted to do a $75,000 project, I would seriously consider it. I do have the advantage of knowing the companies in the UK and having friends who can keep an eye on things, plus I would time it to coincide with a trip over there. However, I have no intention of doing such a project any time soon!! 

one study I saw stated that 45% of the cost of construction in nSW was down to government taxes and regulations.  That's before you include the cost of the land driven up by artificial scarcity in the most scarcely populated continent in the world.

i imagine the car situation is a mixture of both - plus a lack of people willing to work and build skills for a lower wage.   Though I don't think throwing open the quotas hoping to snare a couple of top quality spray painters is a good idea.

i have friends and acquaintances in construction and they all seem to have more cash than me.  One even manages to run a race car in that Aussie race car series (the mini ones).  

Anyway straying off topic again.  Maybe we should reconvene on the vent thread, or have a specific 'vent at the government' thread.  I think there is bipartisan hatred for all the mess they create.

[tazzieman]

Lambie is the Queen of the clowns

Secretly you wonder "what if?" though...

[firstone]

The issue is that we don't have an underclass of cheap labour. "Equality for everyone" ...until you get a quote for $30k for a new coat of paint  

The US have the Mexicans, the English have the Polish (for now). Over regulation and the protectionist attitudes driven by unions are the issue. 

You don't need any skill for your new venture Coastr - just a good 457visa scam, much like 7-Eleven ?

Have to agree. 

[michel]

I'm just going on recent known sales, this is for turbo only mind you... not NA. NA is a bit harder to value, more common but pristine examples are scarce. 

 

I'd suggest that whilst most go for the more obvious (944) and why not, and some like Tazzie probably a fist full of each,. Though  ill take a punt and suggest the 924 is the underrated dark horse and to find a good one, whether n/a or turbo is a bit of a prize. They're fun cars that also come with the same quotient of upset and frustrations no doubt and possessed of their charms and model foibles (coming from a guy who also loves S1 Bagheera's). 

It's here in oz where we seem to have dismissed them - UK, US and other markets typically think they're great.

On pricing no reason why good 924 T's aren't 20k plus cars as much as 944 T's been 35-40k plus. Though end of day speculation and  irrelevant, as its about what they are been  bought for. 

the 924 interest here is emergent and the comments are echoes of what the 914 guys in the US  had been saying.  If you think a 924 is over priced today and  are hard to find, then wonder what we'll say in three or so years time. 

The yellow car manual? Sunroof delete? tidy? Is 13k too much? If it's a solid runner tidy and clean and easily bought to life what otherwise would you spend sub 20k on to buy of a similar vintage?  Btw I think it can't be a 76. 

[Dreamr]

You don't need any skill for your new venture Coastr - just a good 457visa scam, much like 7-Eleven ?

Just to stray even further off topic ....

How on earth do they get away with only employing Indian workers .... isn't that against some anti-descrimination law or something? (like anti anyone not from India)

[SimonN]

Final comment on costs (and thread drift!!). Article in May GT Porsche by Peter Morgan (well known Porsche author) He does PPI's and commented on an SC he had appraised, which was a "full project". He stated "after it gets its full body restoration, engine/gearbox rebuild, new brakes, suspension and interior, there won't be any change out of GBP 30K, which is Au$ 53,000! Seriously! 

[turboT]

Secretly you wonder "what if?" though...

I know Tassie is a small place but you didn't go there did you Tassie??

Just to stray even further off topic ....

How on earth do they get away with only employing Indian workers .... isn't that against some anti-descrimination law or something? (like anti anyone not from India)

far more to do with the fact that the most efficient way to run a small grocer 24hrs a day is with a family unit. 7eleven were quoted last year that a franchisee makes on average $150k per year. Probably never declared that 6 family members share this salary...

that and no aussi wants the job. Same with picking fruit and spraying rusty Porsches for under $20k. 

[symsy]

Still a few hours to take a punt ...or a loss

The greedy green eyed seller and the gordon gecko monster is still available..

I think the general population and consensus is now that , it as the movie goes this car is "Risky Business" and your better of buying the 928 that went into the water.

Another 6 days of watching the paint dry , the vin plate possibly emerge and the rust progress commences..

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PORSCHE-1974-911-CARRERA-TARGA-MATCHING-NUMBERS-AND-AUSTRALIAN-DELIVERED-/222176285817?

Come on there must be some fool on here with the 150k plus for a project..maybe you could go for genetic splicing and put a 964 Motor in it.

 

[ANF]

The greedy green eyed seller and the gordon gecko monster is still available..

I think the general population and consensus is now that , it as the movie goes this car is "Risky Business" and your better of buying the 928 that went into the water.

Another 6 days of watching the paint dry , the vin plate possibly emerge and the rust progress commences..

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PORSCHE-1974-911-CARRERA-TARGA-MATCHING-NUMBERS-AND-AUSTRALIAN-DELIVERED-/222176285817?

Come on there must be some fool on here with the 150k plus for a project..maybe you could go for genetic splicing and put a 964 Motor in it.

 

I think the hype far outweighs what is being offered..... $150k is a lot of $$ for the starting point plus the cost of a full resto...

So much else out there in that price that offers a far better attraction

[smit2100]

Like it or not, it is a fact. We pay significantly more for work on our cars than you would have to in the UK (and elsewhere, for all I know). I was deeply shocked when I first came over here. For instance, just before I came over, i paid $8,000 for a full respray on my 964RS by one of the top Porsche specialists in the UK. I had considered getting it done here in Oz, so that if there was any damage when the car was in transit, it wouldn't be so much of an issue. However, even back then, the cheapest i could get it done in Sydney by somebody with a decent reputation was $15,000, quote based on description and photos.

Next consider the price we pay for parts. We pay an outrageous premium. With some parts, it is actually cheaper to buy them from a Porsche dealership in Europe and ship them here than it is to buy the from Porsche here. If you go to some of the specialist Porsche parts companies, both in Europe and the USA, you can save a fortune. I have a long list of things to buy for my new car and having got quotes from here (Porsche, Autohaus etc) and overseas, even with shipping, I can save 20%.

Then there is the fact that people are even sending large parts overseas for reconditioning. I know of gearboxes being sent overseas for rebuild (although I admit I don't fully understand the economics of that one!)

Sending a car to the UK and back is about $10,000. Compare the prices of doing a "Zag" and you will see that you can save a fair amount of money sending the car to the UK, so long as you put the car on a carnet and you don't get stung for tax on the work when the car comes back. yes, that latter part is a bit dodgy, but customs sees a Porsche going out and a Porsche coming back........

 

+1 on economics of cheaper O/S landed parts compared to local. Just need t know who to shop with and tipping points for delivery costs and supplier flexibility with respect to consignment paperwork, packaging and declarations.  I was a US centric fan, but now on the eurpoean easy-square.com bandwagon in terms of a goto specialist Porsche parts supplier.

+1 on economic of gear boxes.  Modded a car in another mark.  Much cheaper to buy a second hand tranny and have it reconditioned (US specialists even buy second hand trannies from Europe if required to sort out the LHD/RHD nuiances  as opposed to ship your own plus you can gain the advantage of less down time, eg no waiting for yours to be sent

Please elaborate on what is considered dodgy.

Isn't this considered rational thinking and a logical extension to the theme of doing a back date / forward date in the case of parallel deportation /importation when sending a car to the UK to be worked on if you are concerned about duties, particularly if the car originated as a UK import into OZ.  Assuming the UK are not in a post brexit free trade policy writing frenzy going forward, if you are sending back a UK import, I'm thinking dodgy is your laymans term of playing the game through some creative commercial structuring.  i.e special commercial T&C's to support the scope of work is needed to be agreed to up front with the UK chop and shine up shop.   I'm thinking, why not start with an invoice for work to be done for 40% of the negotiated lump sum cost  for the full scope of work.

Special condition 1 is a verbally agreed 40% payment in cash (assuming that can be arranged and no issues from both parties with cash being sourced via a few methods from  your end, eg a series of paypal / eft payments to UK friends that is close to the 40% amount when totalled up, buy need to include extra and an obtuse amount for facilitation funding to whomever is tasked with handing over the cash if you can't do it personally).  Its nothing more than a payment of an advance billing on contract.  However the receipt of the advance billing is in the form of a backdate  invoice . That is full scope of work listed, handwritten if import was a few years back, preferably by a left hander with a felt tip  pen on some non bright white A4 paper that has been tarnished and sun touched by some UK sourced UV and rain droplets to further support the odd lefty ink smudge to give it some providence.   Date and obtuse invoice number obviously backdated to prior to the car being imported to OZ and the total invoice amount equaling 40% of the verbal lump sum price with paid in cash obviously scribed on the copy of the invoice.

Second invoice then calls for an amount equal to 60% for the full scope of work that is to be noted and paid for via an  O/S EFT for audit purposes.  Invoice to be produced and printed is generated electronically.  Similar wording to the predated cash advance invoice, however, much more liberal use of the words "warranty repairs", (15 years wasn't it on selected paint and interior work) , "reconditioning" and "required repairs to".   Not seeing any increase in market values base on that second invoice, eg no enhancements or restorations,  just bringing to back to typical condition as with other peers on the market and customs should know that a ZAG doesn't sustainably  appreciate in value over a period under a year.  Could even perhaps reference PFA via a new post on current market values and trend sfrom professed experts after reference to counseling received via a series of private pm's if the customs duties bill goes pear shaped. If dinged and not up for a fight, surely market value cannot be more than the invoiced cost of the work performed at the 60% value.

@‌blue964, I'm still throwing the odd longish post over the fence.  A couple landed in the technical area that you must have missed.

[symsy]

I think the hype far outweighs what is being offered..... $150k is a lot of $$ for the starting point plus the cost of a full resto...

So much else out there in that price that offers a far better attraction

Ok someone for god sake send it to England and get the premium flip dollar for it , you could get it totally restored there for like 20k max.based on this weeks discussions and that leaves like what 100k profit   

They arent even in slightest bit afraid of rust overthere 

Indeed I agree so much more out there that needs attention , the sooner these inteference cars and their shithouse price expectations disappear we can all get back to having multiples of Pcars in our garages as enthusiast.. NOW THATS MY KINDA GREED 

He was offered many a good dollar the leader of the Reich should have taken it 

[LeeM]

  Yawn!

Anything remotely interesting for sale? Being as that is the actual topic of this thread,  not yacking about restorations

[michel]

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/inggarda/cars-vans-utes/1964-vw-beetle-rat-rod/1114600779

[hugh]

I think the hype far outweighs what is being offered..... $150k is a lot of $$ for the starting point plus the cost of a full resto...

So much else out there in that price that offers a far better attraction

Guessing you haven't spent much time in a MFI Carrera then? I'm not in position to 'bid' but I'd say it's about the best opportunity one would have to secure a very special car. Note that people are paying near that for C2 964 & 993's...........still.........in a 'flat' market. 

My thoughts are that its more of a protest against the seller than against the car..............

[symsy]

Hows about the 600 dollar 924 on gumtree LeeM in Kyogle??

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/kyogle/cars-vans-utes/porsche-924/1116901321

And its says negotiable  and its silver

Oh an hang on a blue one too $200

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/crestmead/wrecking/porsche-924-wrecking/1111858692?utm_source=criteo&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Facebook-

Shit two porsches for under a grand ….I think the market must have collapsed ..

Maybe you could create a Mergezinger 924 special.. I think theres enough to get one roadworthy out of the blend of the two cars.. where  the hell is the Magnus club and their lateral thinking when you need it ..

Shit and just when I thought I  was done with this post theres a third

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/middle-park/wrecking/porsche-9-series/1109894615

Three Porsches for a grand thats like TV shopping channel stuff 

Sorry guys couldnt get away from the resto agenda though..No indians , mexicans , fillopinos , mad english panelbeaters in the area of the cars obviously

Thank god though none of them are Green