944 sale price

[Timm]

Just looking at the pics of that ^ car and noting it is an "early offset" model (ET 23mm) and that it has D90s which have an offset of ~55mm from memory, it appears to me that the wheels are inboard of their correct position, needing spacers to rectify.  Or are my eyes deceiving me?

You're eyes definitively don't deceive you Rob...you could build a house in those wheel gaps!

 

Didn't all turbo's have the late off-set?

The '86 turbo has early offset.

[Plugger2]

Correct Plugger although the fronts are 7.5", i'm not nit picking, just saying that's what they are.

I would love a set of Fuchs on my turbo

Some 86 cars had the late off-set i believe, i'm thinking these would be very late 86 cars, someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Didn't all turbo's have the late off-set?

If it had the late offset, it would be a MY87, even if built in 86.

The 86 Turbos didn't have the late offset (that's why you see them with Fuchs.)

[Port 911]

Mine is a 12/86 & has the early offset, would love a set of Fuchs wheels, this would stop the spacer dilemma. 

[Plugger2]

Mine is a 12/86 & has the early offset, would love a set of Fuchs wheels, this would stop the spacer dilemma. 

That's a very late build date for a MY86 car. Or is that the compliance date?

In any case, the letter in position 10 of the VIN will tell you the model year for sure.

G = MY86

H = MY87

J = MY88

K = MY89

L = MY90

M = MY91

[Buchanan Automotive]

The 1986 "G" letter in the Vin number 951 is unique , it has different suspension control arms ( narrow track ) like the early series 944 at 23mm & no provision for ABS at all & with the 23mm offset wheels , the wheels at 23mm look mildly dished
The 1986 951 front stub axles ( Spindles ,USA speak ) were unique to the 1986 model & these cars only ever had the tiny front brakes ( 4 piston Brembo's ) with bolt on front  discs

The 1987 "H" letter in the Vin number & onwards to 1995( 968) the suspension arms were changed ( longer ) = wider track , & the wheels have a higher offset number  ( much less dish ) & the provision for ABS ( standard on the 951 1987>) & standard on the 944S2 1990>
The stub axles ( spindles ,USA speak) were different to the 1986 , along with different alloy hubs & now with slide on front discs , but still the horrible way too small front brakes
The usual 1987 & 1988 Telephone style ( Cast and painted silver) 16" front wheels had a 55mm offset

With the introduction of the 944 Turbo S( in Europe) in 1988 Porsche changed the front stub axles completely to accommodate radial mounted ( 928S4 type) larger front Brembo brake caliper & the larger 928S4 brake discs 
With these unique 951 S front stub axles ( spindles) the front wheels had to be 65mm offset ( same as a 928S 1986> / 928S4 etc )
These 944 Turbo S models in 1988 & 1989 came standard with the Fuchs Club Sport wheels ( anodised silver finish ) and were ( fronts ) 16" X 7" X 65mm offset ( same wheel offsets and wheel size( SIZE only) as a 928S 1986 /  928S4 > 1991 ) & on the rear the Turbo S had the Club Sport Forged Fuchs wheels in 16" X 9" ( I know as I have two sets my self )

The 1990 944 Turbo , be it the M030 ( lets call it the Turbo S version ) did NOT get the expensive Fuchs Forged anodised Fuchs wheels , instead it received the much cheaper to make & buy cast alloy " Design 90 " wheels & its these wheels that had the front rim size of 7.5" X 16" X 65mm off sets

Note } The Fuchs Forged and silver anodised Club Sport wheels look ( from a distance ) similar the the much cheaper cast design 90 wheels , particularly if the once beautiful forged /anodised Club Sport Fuchs wheels had been vandalised , meaning painted silver by a vandal

The Fuchs Forged " Club Sport" front wheels only came in 7" X 16 " X 65mm off set = 951 turbo S    or 8" X 16" X 60mm offset = 1988CS /SE & 1989 928GT 

Like the 1990 951 , the 1990 928GT also received the cheaper design 90 cast & painted wheels & these were 7.5" X 16" X 65mm offset

Regards
Bruce Buchanan
Buchanan Automotive

 

Edited 10April, 2017 by Buchanan Automotive

[Port 911]

That's a very late build date for a MY86 car. Or is that the compliance date?

In any case, the letter in position 10 of the VIN will tell you the model year for sure.

G = MY86

H = MY87

J = MY88

K = MY89

L = MY90

M = MY91

Definitely a G, but right its a July 86 build & a 12/86 compliance 

[Stepo]

Oh, and just for fun -- Here's an interesting S2 cab that's just hit the market:

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/_/SSE-AD-4640773?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert;PCAA

But -- oh no! -- "This very special 1990 Porsche 944 has had the renown 2.5 litre Turbo engine fitted by Peter Fitzgerald."

This ad could do with a bit more description, and if the engine is so special, wouldn't it be good to actually show a few pics of it . 

[Rob]

Here's another optimistic '86 Turbo owner @ $48K.  Ad reads well, but $10K overpriced...

 

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-944-1986/SSE-AD-4673916/?Cr=4

[OzJustin]

I'm a big fan of the Kalahari beige metallic colour. It's quite rare and my second favourite colour behind indian/guards red.  

Agree the car is well overpriced though...

[Stepo]

For anyone interested, I have just listed my 1990 944S2 on carsales.  It's a great car, that's why I bought it, but selling due to the fact I have two S2's and this one needs to go.

Price reflects what I paid for the car plus recent costs to attend to issues that needed to be resolved.

Here is a link to the ad and some pics

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-944-1990/SSE-AD-4691916/?Cr=0

 

 

[cyberpunky]

If it had the late offset, it would be a MY87, even if built in 86.

The 86 Turbos didn't have the late offset (that's why you see them with Fuchs.)

The 87 turbo was first with late offset wheels but Australia never got the 87 turbo(with ABS). The 86 turbo was sold for 2 years here and then we got the 88(with ABS and twin airbags). Only relevant if talking Aussie delivered cars. My car was originally purchased in early 87(so is registered as an 87) but I need to order 86 parts for it.

[Plugger2]

The 87 turbo was first with late offset wheels but Australia never got the 87 turbo(with ABS). The 86 turbo was sold for 2 years here and then we got the 88(with ABS and twin airbags). Only relevant if talking Aussie delivered cars. My car was originally purchased in early 87(so is registered as an 87) but I need to order 86 parts for it.

I don't think the Oz delivered 88 Turbos had airbags... I thought that was the US spec. My 1990 S2 has ABS but no airbags, for example...

Not sure about UK cars that may have been brought in as personal imports.

[Plugger2]

For anyone interested, I have just listed my 1990 944S2 on carsales.

Looking good! I think this car should appeal to anyone who is looking to get in at a slightly lower price level.

That Crystal Silver is a really nice colour btw. It strikes me as much deeper and "3D" compared to some of the other Porsche silvers for whatever reason.

GLWS.

 

Edited 21April, 2017 by Plugger2

[Buchanan Automotive]

Clarification time

A )   Do not look at the Australian Compliance plate for the year model other than the VIN Letter that gives the "Year Model " , the compliance plate month and year is ONLY when the said Porsche left the bond store at Porsche Cars Australia , remember if any Porsche was not sold to a Porsche dealer the said Porsche just sat in the bond store & the moment ( day ) it was to leave the bond store( car sold) a new stamped ( month & year) Australian Compliance plate was installed onto the said Porsche ( all models sold to the public as a road car ), So it was not uncommon to have a Porsche that sat in the bond store for 6 months or even a year , that means you could have ( example ) a 1986 ( G ) Porsche finally sold 6 months later in 1987 or even later if it was a real unpopular spec configuration

Vin  Letter to year models ( some )

A          = 1980
B          = 1981
C         = 1982
D         = 1983
E         = 1984
F         = 1985
G         = 1986
H          = 1987
I      Not Used
J          = 1988
K         = 1989
L          =1990
M         = 1991
N          = 1992
O      Not Used
P          = 1993
Q       Not Used
R         = 1994
S         = 1995

---------------------

Porsche 951  Australian Spec Basics }

1986  ( G )  16' dia Telephone style , offset ( fronts ) 23.3mm  = a dished wheel because of off sets
Or as an option the Fuchs Forged wheels ( black 5 spoke with anodised silver rim ) with the same front off sets

Shorter suspension control arms ( narrow track ) , hence why the dished wheels

No ABS either R/H/D or L/H/D

No Airbags at all for Australia ( I think it was a USA thing at that time )

Small front Brembo brake calipers ( same size caliper & pads as the rear ) = under-braked but very period correct , meaning crap  brakes by today's stand were the norm  & made worse by the low compression 951 engine , meaning less engine braking , no other brake option available yet

LSD was an option

Sunroof was an option ( but very popular )

Sports Seats  ( Drivers side ) a no cost option , but the passengers side was an option ( extra cost )

Central locking was an option

A/C  & climate control was standard for Australia

Partial leather seats ( leather fascias ) was standard , meaning the sides and rear of front seats were vinyl 

Full leather seats front & rear was an option

Seat bolsters as well as inserts covered in cloth available at No extra cost

Cruise Control was an option

Engine ( low 220HP ) designed to run on our very very very very low octane unleaded fuel that we had to use in all new cars sold in Australia from Jan 1 1986 & as an added NON bonus our unleaded fuel was high in the very unwanted Sulphur = Rotten egg gas small 
No Premium Unleaded Available at all in Australian capital cities , let alone regional Australia , so all 1986 & 1987 Australian delivered cars ( All makes ) were detuned quite a bit to cope with the dreadful low octane fuel ( we used to call it = instant pinging petrol)
We lost the 911 Turbo ( there were all air cooled) from 1986 to 1991 because of our dreadful unleaded fuels

There are more options , but ran out of space

------------------------------------------

951    1987  ( H )   Aust Spec

If we did get some , it was rare( may be late in the year model time period) because Porsche Cars Australia still had too many 1986 ( G ) 951 Porsche's in stock in the bond store , I think there would of been a couple of "Tourist Delivery "  1987  951's being delivered over- seas that were Australian Spec cars & naturally when they were finally imported into Australia ( months later by Porsche Cars Aust ) they were then fitted with Australian Compliance plate because they were purchased new from Porsche Cars Australia

Same 220 HP out put from the engine

 Some of the differences difference from a 1986 ( G ) 951 }

Different off- set wheels , now the fronts are 52.3mm ET and available in Telephone style ( standard ) or the Fuchs ( 928 S / S4 style of Fuchs Forged wheel ) , but they were different to the 928 as these Fuchs wheels had the 52.3ET where as the 928S / S4 had 65MM ET

Same crap small rear sized brakes on the front , but with the new longer suspension control arms the car received new for 1987 stub axles ( stronger more robust than the small , nearly under-size 1986 951 stub-axles ) & now from 1987 the front discs slide on instead of being bolted on as the 1986 was 

Larger front axle ( alloy hubs) with bigger wheel bearings

ABS standard

A/C / Climate control standard

Cruise Control standard from 1987 ( 951 only ) , other model 944 variants it was an option

Note }  The 1990 944 S2 onwards  received ABS as standard , so if a 1989 944S2 has ABS , then the first owner ticked the expensive option box

Central locking standard on the 951 87>

Seats & bolters with cloth inserts are now an option

Leather Interior now an option , meaning more than just full leather seats

LSD still an option , along with sunroof & Alarm system

Transmission Oil Cooler now an option

Split rear seat now standard on the 951

------------------------------------------------------------

951     1988   ( J )

Australia received these , not a lot but we did get them , very similar to the 1987 model , but there are some cosmetic changes , still had the small front brakes

A/C / Climate control standard

Same Telephone style cast and painted silver wheels as standard that were on the 1987 model

------------------------------------------------------------

951    1988 ( J )    Turbo S  made its first appearance , a few of these sold in the UK in R/H/D 

250Hp  & finally they fixed the brakes ( 928S4 style ) front brakes & different stub axles etc 

LSD & transmission oil cooler were standard on the Turbo S

The 951 S   received the Fuchs Club Sport forged & anodised wheels & with the very different front stub axle ( geometry ) the front wheels are 65MM ET   ( same ET as a 928S / S4 / GT / GTS )

Turbo S received the trick for its day revised suspension ( height adjustable at the front )

-------------------------------------------------------------

951 1989  ( K )  Australian Delivered

We received the 951 Turbo S as our standard spec ( expensive but very nice )

A/C / Climate control still standard

Telephone style wheels no longer used  on the 951

--------------------------------------------------------------

951 1990  ( L )  Australian delivered

To cut costs of the car new , the Turbo S  suspension etc was now an option

Engine remained 250 HP

LSD was an option again , but if the car was ordered with the M030 , then LSD was standard

Wheels }  the expensive Fuchs Forged club sport wheels were deleted and in there place was the much much cheaper cast alloy & painted Design 90 wheels  , they look like the design 90 cast & painted wheels first used on the 1989 944S2 , but they are different widths front & rear , they just look the same

-----------------------------------------------------------------

As a sub- note   , the first Air Bag fitted to a Porsche 944 series for Australia was the 1993 968 & its was a drivers air bag only

There is a stack more info , but that's enough

Regards

Bruce Buchanan
Buchanan Automotive





 



 

[Plugger2]

Small front Brembo brake calipers ( same size caliper & pads as the rear ) = under-braked but very period correct , meaning crap  brakes by today's stand were the norm  & made worse by the low compression 951 engine , meaning less engine braking , no other brake option available yet

Clarification time: The Turbos and S2s have always had larger calipers on the front than the rear. Bruce seems to be confusing having the same brake pad size with having the same size calipers.

And of course, bigger calipers mean more pressure means more friction (even if the pad sizes are the same). Which all means that 944 brakes are designed pretty much like every other modern car with disc brakes. And hopefully, Bruce might finally get this particular bee out of his bonnet!

[Buchanan Automotive]

Hi Plugger , I am not sure how you could state that  , the brake calipers on the early 944 Turbo  & the 944S2 & 968  Non M030 are the SAME size front & rear , hence why the brake pads are the SAME size front & rear , just because the brake pistons within the small rear callipers fitted to the front were a little bigger makes very little difference , the brake pads & discs are TOO SMALL for the performance for there vehicle & on a 951 with less engine braking with those small front brakes its bloody dangerous , in fact its that bad that on the 1986 951 ( no ABS ) its very very very common to lock the rear brakes in a brake test at 42 Kmh to do a rego brake test , meaning the car FAILS the brake test & in the wet the 1986 951 with the small front brakes is a dangerous car with worn / old rear tyres , the rears lock up way way too easily , thats because the weight transfer under braking with the SAME size brake pads & same size brake callipers front & rear overwhelms the rear and the rear wheels lock up 

The best way to fix the 1986 951 rear wheel lock up is to fit the 951 Turbo S ( 928S4 ) front brakes , no more rear wheel lock up in road or track conditions (this is not rocket science ) , its what Porsche did to FIX an issue that was there 

I repeat , the very small rear brake pads fit the front calipers & visa versa 

So obviously the brake callipers are the same size front & rear  

The Brake pads in the Turbo S "much Larger" Brembo brake callipers with its much larger dia and wider front brake discs  ( similar to the 928S4 front brake callipers & bigger discs's ) are just that MUCH LARGER & hence the stopping power is much more up to date to put another way the 951 TurboS or the 944S2 M030 or the 968 CS M030 or the 928S 1986 /928S4 front brakes were ( AT LAST ) in their day , way ahead of the pack , meaning the cars would stop with confidence at speed 

I know you have not owned one with the bigger front brakes & hence why you can not quite come to grips with it & I can to some degree understand what is going on in your mind , if you could experience ( say you're 944S2 ) with the Factory option of the much better front brakes , all will be revealed to you , its quite a different car 

Hence why it was a FACTORY option ( 951 TurboS front brakes ) on the 944S2 for those customers who knew what it meant , for the others who got the standard small front brakes they just have to put up with crap front brakes and long travel brake pedal ( all very 1980"s crap brakes )

Note } the long brake travel is from having to push harder to get the bloody car to pull up with the small front brakes 

Interestingly Plugger , just last week , Sean upgraded a customers 1990 944S2 to Turbo S front brakes( 928S4 ) at our workshop & the customer who has owner this concourse condition 944S2 for around 20 years can not get over the difference , over the years when he drove it he always complained of the lack of braking as compared to his later model cars he has & boy has it fixed his braking , its now fantastic  &to put icing on the cake & not that it needed it, the same 944S2 received a new set of Fuchsfelge ( Fuchs ) forged & anodised  17" X 8 fronts & 17" X 9" rear wheels & continental tyres , just like what I have on my 968 , this 944S2 looks fantastic & now for the first time in its life it stops like a modern car 

Remember Plugger , the 951 TurboS ( 928S4 ) bigger front brake calipers & Discs & bigger front pads are a FACTORY OPTION when new on the 944S2 / 968 & 951 from 1988 

Very Simple stuff & one day you will experience what I mean & finally the light globe will click on for you , until then you are just in the dark 

Regards
Bruce Buchanan

Edited 22April, 2017 by Buchanan Automotive

[Plugger2]

Hi Plugger , I am not sure how you could state that  , the brake calipers on the early 944 Turbo  & the 944S2 & 968  Non M030 are the SAME size front & rear , hence why the brake pads are the SAME size front & rear , just because the brake pistons within the small rear callipers fitted to the front were a little bigger makes very little difference

[...]

I repeat , the very small rear brake pads fit the front calipers & visa versa 

So obviously the brake callipers are the same size front & rear  
 

 Bruce, you are obviously still labouring under some basic  misconceptions of how brake calipers deliver their force to the brake pads, so let's do a quick recap:

The pressure (force) applied to the brake pad is directly proportional to the surface area of the pistons in the caliper. So let's do the arithmetic:

'86 951
F: 36/38mm calipers
R: 28/30mm calipers

'87-88 951, non-S
F: 36/40mm calipers
R: 28/30mm calipers

The combined surface area of the '86 front caliper pistons is therefore ~1.63 times of the rear calipers ((36*36)+(38*38))/(28*28+30*30) =  ~1.627, and

The combined surface area of the '87+ front caliper pistons is therefore ~1.72 times of the rear calipers ((36*36)+(40*40))/(28*28+30*30) =  ~1.719

So the calipers on the front apply between 62-72% *more* force to the front pads (and that is ignoring the effect of the proportioning/brake bias valve.)

That is 62-72% more frictional force applied to the frontwheels compared to the rears. Those "small differences" in pistons size actually make all the difference... the front calipers are *significantly* bigger than the rears for all year Turbos. The larger piston sizes are in fact what *make* them "bigger calipers" -- and, contrary to your assertion, the simple fact they use the same size brake pad clearly does not mean "obviously the brake calipers are the same size front & rear." 

Hope this clears up some basic misconceptions for you and possibly anyone else reading this thread

[Buchanan Automotive]

Now , lets see 

 Porsche had the larger more effective 944Turbo S ( 928S4) front brakes as an option for the 944S2 / 968 and the 951 from 1988 , I wonder why Porsche did that ? , maybe Porsche thought that putting small rear brake calipers ( size of caliper)& small rear brake pads + small discs on the front was a bit average in the stopping department & so they fixed the problem and as I already mentioned on the 951( 1986-1987/1988 )  with the small front brakes ,meaning the small rear brake pads on the front ( Yikes) , these cars are very non responsive in the brake department & very very NON confidence inspiring , not a good feeling in a Turbo car with little engine braking , but you must already know that or do you ?

Remember Plugger ( do you actually have a name ? ) Porsche thought of putting larger /upgraded front brakes on the above cars because it FIXED the poor brakes issue

Now lets look at what Porsche learnt in last century cars in regards to brakes that will work with confidence , meaning driving the said last century Porsche beyond 50 % of its performance potential , maybe you might learn something 

Porsche 928 4.5L ( 1978 - 1980 /81) Auto & manual trans , these cars had the front brakes from the 924 Turbo & these front brakes were tiny little discs & a single piston brake caliber + very tiny front pads & the rear brakes were the same deal , they were the rear brakes from the same car ( 924 Turbo ) even smaller single piston rear caliber & even smaller rear pads 

Note } the 924 Turbo ( 1979 - 1981)  had very period correct brakes , meaning cheap and nasty single piston steel callipers front & rear with tiny brake pads , even the  924 Turbo which weighed less than a 928 didn't stop , but at least it had rear discs brakes where as the 924 NA had even smaller front discs brakes & drums on the rear ( Holy Shit it was bad ), but very early 1970's period correct 

These ( the 928 1978-1980/81 ) were a very strange car to drive( nice engine and great handling ) but very had poor brakes with manual trans  & even worse as an auto trans version , it was so bad that Porsche realised ( more customer complaints than you could poke a stick at in that era ) , yes it was bad even by late 1970's standards that when Porsche released the 4.7L 928S in 1980 , Porsche finally installed bigger front discs & bigger single piston steel caliper which could accommodate a much BIGGER front brake pads that extended outside the normal areas that a normal brake caliber could accommodate in that era , this car finally had BIGGER swept area brake pads & bigger discs , this was a big leap forward , it wasn't the perfect solution , but it was in the right direction to give their customers some confidence in driving these cars ( that were getting faster ) & heavier
Porsche in mid 1981 installed the bigger 928S brakes to the 4.5L 928 ( as standard), so the late 1981 & all the 1982 4.5L 928 series( Auto & Man trans) received the 928S brakes ( Big improvement )

Note } even without the improved brakes on the 928( 1980> S ) , at no stage did these cars have the tiny rear brake pads & calipers on the front , the front pads & calipers were always BIGGER than the rear , like on every other car manufacturer I can think of 

Then in 1986 ( G) the 928S then S4/GT ( 1986 - 1991 ) received as standard the same big from discs that the 951 Turbo S finally received & naturally they received the same size Brembo ( large  ) 4 piston brake calipers  on the front to accomodate the bigger front brake pads ( All Very Simple Stuff to Understand )
The small rear Brembo 4 piston brake callipers & pads & discs are the 944S2 /968 / 951 ones & on the back these quite small brake callipers & small rear brake pads are quite suitable for a front engined car "At the rear "

928GTS 1992 - 1995 , Porsche made the front Brembo brakes even bigger as standard ( BIG BLACKS ) , larger discs larger Brembo's to accomodate the larger brake pads ( more contact/surface area = MORE stopping power 

Porsche had finally come of age and very up to date brake performance for a very fast road car in the 1990's 

You probably do not know Plugger ( is that you're name ? ) , but Porsche struggled with the 964 911 in the brake dept as well( Exact Same Time Period as the 944S2 ) , the first couple of year types  ( Australian delivered ) 964 ( 1990 & 1991)  had the same brake issues that the 944S2 & early 951 & 968  NON M030 had , meaning the brakes were only good for pottering around with ( just ) & it got worse , when the 964 Tip was released ( meaning Auto Transmission version ) in 1991 , the brakes felt decidedly worse as compared to the manual trans version ( brakes too small ) for the engine performance

The early versions of the standard 911C2 ( 1990 & 1991   964 ) had the same 944S2 etc small 4 piston Brembo's front & rear brake calipers & naturally the same small brake pads for front brakes , but wait it gets worse for the poor old 964 , on the rear Porsche decided to install much much smaller 2 piston Brembo brake calipers with ( naturally ) even smaller rear brake pads , well didn't this cause some issues , not only did the cars had trouble pulling up ( remember the 964 had quite good performance / acceleration with manual trans ) and these cars at speed & trying to stop in a hurry was a task & the rear brake pad wear was extreme to say the least , basically the extra tiny rear brakes were just overwhelmed 
The next generation of the 964 ( 1992 - 1994) had 4 piston small rear brake caliper ( 944S2 / 951 / 928S4 etc )  , so it ended up with the same issue as the 944S2 , very average brakes & crap at speed , but at least the rear brakes were fixed on the 964 , remember I am just referring to the stock standard 964 in manual or Auto trans or put another way , the ones they sold the most of

Finally Porsche saw the light ( about bloody time ) and the standard 993  911 ( 1995 - 1998 ) received the 951 Turbo S / 928S4 Brembo front brakes with the corresponding bigger pads & discs , the rear brakes ( pads size & caliper size ) were the good old small Brembo's that first saw the light of day in the rear of the 1986 951 & 1986 928S & front & rear on an early 951 and standard F & R on a 968 

So as you can see Plugger , its all about the front brakes , the rears ( except those silly 2 piston motorcycle sized rear ones on the early 964 )were always good 

Naturally this is all history , Porsche never ever again installed the small rear brake pads on the front & rear of the same car ( any of their cars) ever again 

So Boxter ( any ) front calipers and pads much bigger than the rears , 996 / 997 / 991/ Cayman etc etc etc all have much bigger front pads and corresponding large calipers than the rears 

Now Plugger , youre task is to give me/us a list of any brand car/s , be it  GM /Ford / Chrysler / Nissan/ Toyota / Mazda / Hyundai / Mercedes / BMW / SAAB / Volvo / Jaguar/ Lamborghini / Ferrari / Maserati  etc etc etc , that have the SAME SIZE small rear brake( disc) pads &  FRONT & REAR 

This is going to be a very very short list , I will make it easy for you I will add two car types but its the same brand & same silly sized small front brake pads front & rear

A ) Porsche 944S2 / 951 ( early ) & 968 Non M030 & the last version of the 964 911  & yes same pads & caliper size as the rear

B )  Can not think of another brand of car ?     CAN YOU 

[Plugger2]

A ) Porsche 944S2 / 951 ( early ) & 968 Non M030 & the last version of the 964 911  & yes same pads & caliper size as the rear
 

Neither the Turbos nor the S2s ever had the same size calipers front and rear. Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but it does seem like you're just not paying attention. They have the same size brake *pads* front and rear, but significantly bigger *calipers* up front.

Resulting of course in significantly more braking force on the front wheels than the rears. (Specifically 62% bigger for the 86 Turbos, and 73% bigger for the 87+ Turbos and S2s.) As you would expect for any rational design for a car with disc brakes.

And BTW, just in case this also needs clarification, bigger pads on the same caliper does not result in greater braking force. What it does do is help with heat dissipation and pad wear, though. If you want greater total frictional force, i.e., greater braking force, you need the caliper to apply more force to the pads. And that means bigger total cross-sectional area of the pistons, as explained above. 

So getting all hung up about the same size brake pads, thinking that means the braking force must be the same, is completely misguided.

[Buchanan Automotive]

Plugger Plugger Plugger  , the front brake pads callipers & discs are too small , hence why Porsche finally abandoned this stupid poor braking set up ,thats why the 1988 951 Turbo S & the 968 CS M030  did not use the silly little front pads & silly little discs because they do not work 

By the way , what is you're name or are you hiding from something ?

BB

Oh , by the way I am waiting for the list of other cars with the same small rear brake pads that were also used on the front , come on Plugger , you can do it 

Edited 23April, 2017 by Buchanan Automotive

[JLD]

Ok, either get a room or agree to disagree...

[cyberpunky]

Thanks for the clarification on the airbags. I wonder if my brakes(86 952) have been modified by a previous owner now, as they are great, and yes I have driven an S2(only everyday for a week) but enough to not feel any day and night difference. I am pretty sure they are stock though *shrugs*

[michel]

I will buy bigger (928) brakes for my 944t and then look to swap in the 944t gear into the venerable 924t

whose got a set up gathering dust .. 

[Rob]

Has everyone gone to sleep?  CarSales tells me that the $58k red '86 952 has sold...  Only took 5 months.

[Port 911]

Would be nice to know what it sold for, got to say if I had the money I would have been talking to him myself. It was nice.

On another car.

924 Carrera GT turbo at $170k, I understand the significance of the car but that is out there. For a car that you are not really going to want to drive.

 https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/_/OAG-AD-14627296?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert;PCAA

Collectors only for this one.

Edited 28April, 2017 by Port 911