Choices - similar $$ buying a classic or a new ?

[Thommo66]

First world problems of course

As you all know there are so many fantastic P's over so many decades.  I expect that the resounding response to this thread is going to start with some like ... " it depends ".   So, here is my pathetic first world problem dilemma no doubt due to a deep rooted psychological FOMO issue that is best served by joining a different forum to solve for.

I currently have a 911 996tt manual which is my first P and is a pleasure to drive and makes me feel like a much better driver than I am.  It's insanely quick and agile.  But every time a 993 or 964 goes past in traffic I'm like I've just seen a pretty blonde and have to change lanes so I can get close to see those beautiful curves and hear the music from that flat 6 air cooled engine.

And then every now and again as I surf carsales while watching whatever I'm supposed to be watching on tv I see something like this which totally grabs my attention thinking this is seriously cool.  A bit like " The Indiana Car " by Singer .  If you haven't seen it check it out here.   

So here is something that looks close to something unique as this:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/Porsche-911-Carrera-1988/SSE-AD-5963679/?Cr=78

And then to throw a spanner in the works for the same sort of $$ I can buy a 2016 GT4 like this.  Yes - I know its not a 911 but hey its still a pretty amazing P.   

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2016-porsche-cayman-gt4-981-manual-my16/SSE-AD-5950228/?_ga=2.113210756.1836540698.1553331344-993414510.1531295128

So my question for those who may have had the benefit of owning a 996 manual tt and then moving into something classic for a change of scenery or into something new like the GT4 or even a 991.   Your opinions would be great.   Of course it goes without saying that if $ and garage space was not an issue I would have all of them ! 

My only key consideration criteria here is that it must be the most fun to drive guaranteed to put a smile on your dial taking a spin down to the supermarket ... or stop start traffic in the burbs to work  ie. and not only the 6am Black Spur run or if you get a chance to open it up on a track day.  

 

 

[Jason A]

My 2 cents worth, go and drive all of them first. Then decide.

If you are considering a GT4, try a 996 & 997 GT3 also.

Its a very individual decision.

 

[clutch-monkey]

coming to an  early car from a 996 turbo will have you asking "where's the power" and trying to see if anything is wrong with it.

it's a rewarding drive to be sure, the feedback is great,  but 996 turbo will do everything. maybe a 997 GT3?

[LeeM]

  That silver RSR car was a Martini replica maybe 2 years ago? Zag built to a high quality from what I saw when it arrived at Buiks. That's also a decent wedge of cash for a custom 911 in my opinion.

 With my limited driving experience of all things Porsche, I can only relay what I know coming from an old thing to briefly driving a newer (996 n/a) thing.

 Reckon I'll get slammed here, as I know some do drive their air cooled cars a lot more than I do, yet if you want a car you can drive at any time rain, hail or shine, is comfortable, air cond etc, it's a no brainer...the GT4 or as suggested, a GT3.

 Air cooled's are fantastic cars and I prefer the old shape by a long way, but lately I'm over it, can't be bothered driving it and would prefer something more comfortable, handles better etc. In all honesty, If my '78 backdate had to be my daily I'd hate it, but that's me

 

[Gavn]

Stop-start commuting & milk runs = no earlier than 993 imo.  I'd lean towards getting two for the money you're talking.  One for the 6am selfish blast/trackdays & one for the commute (993 or 964 tipper & early or middy hotrod).  Just to muddy the water a little further....

[Mike D'Silva]

far out.. $195k. 

How much is a 991 S second hand?

 

[clutch-monkey]

38 minutes ago, LeeM said:

  That silver RSR car was a Martini replica maybe 2 years ago? Zag built to a high quality from what I saw when it arrived at Buiks. That's also a decent wedge of cash for a custom 911 in my opinion.

 With my limited driving experience of all things Porsche, I can only relay what I know coming from an old thing to briefly driving a newer (996 n/a) thing.

 Reckon I'll get slammed here, as I know some do drive their air cooled cars a lot more than I do, yet if you want a car you can drive at any time rain, hail or shine, is comfortable, air cond etc, it's a no brainer...the GT4 or as suggested, a GT3.

 Air cooled's are fantastic cars and I prefer the old shape by a long way, but lately I'm over it, can't be bothered driving it and would prefer something more comfortable, handles better etc. In all honesty, If my '78 backdate had to be my daily I'd hate it, but that's me

 

if it was a martini replica that makes sense.. looks a bit bare now.

[LeeM]

36 minutes ago, clutch-monkey said:

if it was a martini replica that makes sense.. looks a bit bare now.

 This be it I reckon 

[Dreamr]

As you quite rightly said ... it's personal preference ...

A 996 / 997 TT is one of my dream cars and one that I'd love to own ... but not instead of my SC ... for me it's either both or it'll have to wait .. but I think a lot of that has to do with me growing up in the era of impact bumper 911's ..

I generally find that if you have a new Porsche and and old Porsche together, the new one will bring the WOW, look at that ... whereas the old one will bring more attention and also the conversation ... 

I personally don't care about the power or speed ... mine is only a weekender and the joy I get from just cruising around and going for Sunday drives is priceless ... I smile the entire time. I've had guys talk to me at lights, and servos wanting to have a chat, and thumbs up while driving ... it just adds to my enjoyment.

Good luck with your "first world problems" dilemma .... whatever choice you make, it won't be wrong ... it'll just be right for you! ..

[Tips]

16 hours ago, Gavin (CliffToCoast) said:

Stop-start commuting & milk runs = no earlier than 993 imo.  I'd lean towards getting two for the money you're talking.  One for the 6am selfish blast/trackdays & one for the commute (993 or 964 tipper & early or middy hotrod).  Just to muddy the water a little further....

I’m with you Gav on the two for one pricing. Battling this myself at the moment. 996 tipper maybe manual for the daily commute over the bridge and a not overly expensive AC for Friday’s and weekends. 

Plenty of choice on the 996 front, challenge im finding is the lower cost AC. Cheap entry could also be money pit. I’m not adverse to an import and preference is RHD over LHD or converted.

I have also found that there are many temptations that look very tasty and are pretty much sorted,  which will be the entire budget. There is a good basis to go down this path as a 50k 35 year old air cooled car is going to probably need money chucked at it, how much is as they say a slippery sliope once you start. I have found when you start looking at good  3.2 and 964’s most have already been refreshed or have good history.  For me I like the 2 for 1 idea I just don’t know if the right 2 cars are going to present themselves. Maybe though in this market where things appear to be cooling maybe it might work for a patient man, which I am.

[Coastr]

You need to get an opinion from turbot - he went from 997 turbo to 76 turbo and 912, both in LHD.  About as big a leap backwards as possible.

An old AC car is s very different beast.   Maybe that’s why they are such good therapy for the worlds ills?

Drive one or two if you can, you’ll know.

[Thommo66]

Lots of great feedback and opinions here !   There is no right or wrong answer here I think.  May be just a P with more trouble and $ to spend than you expected despite a PPI and if very unlucky.

I've driven a number of 993's.  Obviously nothing like the throw back in the seat power of the 996tt as @clutch-monkey points out.  But at the same time the feel of the smaller cockpit and the sound of the air cooled is different.  In a really cool way.  

I haven't driven a 964 or a SC and I need to.  I love the earlier look of the 911.  The 997 and 991's are sensational as well.  I guess I will just have to move in and out of a few more of them and sample the menu.

[Fraz]

 I’ve actually gone the other way. I used to own a pretty sweet 964 C4 manual and switched to a 996 Turbo manual.

To go from one of the prettiest 964s to arguably the ugly duckling it’s clear I’m about the car and drive, not the “look”.

At present I am baby sitting a 964 C2 and have driven it back to back with the turbo, I still have no regrets. In fact it cemented in my mind I made the right choice. 

Now to be clear my turbo is by no means stock, it has a lot of GT3 and after market go fast bits. 

@Thommo66 I think if you were to get an aspirated air cooled car you would get bored once the lust period is over and you will long for that boost hit, once a junky always a junky.

[Peter John]

Buy the oldie and stretch yourself for a year. See which one you drive more. Write down the reasons, the emotions felt and compare notes. 

Then sell the the 2nd best or keep it!

 

[smit2100]

1 hour ago, Fraz said:

 I’ve actually gone the other way. I used to own a pretty sweet 964 C4 manual and switched to a 996 Turbo manual.

To go from one of the prettiest 964s to arguably the ugly duckling it’s clear I’m about the car and drive, not the “look”.

At present I am baby sitting a 964 C2 and have driven it back to back with the turbo, I still have no regrets. In fact it cemented in my mind I made the right choice. 

Now to be clear my turbo is by no means stock, it has a lot of GT3 and after market go fast bits. 

@Thommo66 I think if you were to get an aspirated air cooled car you would get bored once the lust period is over and you will long for that boost hit, once a junky always a junky.

I dont know what music @Thommo66 is into but it appears to be mainly rhythm and blues with his preference for music from an air cooled.  Reckon he needs to add some heavy metal to his collection in the form of a Kline exhaust.  That stock one his got lacks bass, tone and decibels  strangles the mezger and doesnt arouse the Ecu sensors let alone your own.

@ Fraz, reckon you need to hand your keys over to @Thommo.  His driving the wrong cars.  Reminds me of my  mate who looked at and picked up a car for me.  He didn't realise what he was driving and what the car was capable of.  Eg didn't  take my e90 m3  over 4000 rpm, left it in drive  and  as a consequence thought the car was pretty tame for a V8. Would't rate a stock 996tt that great of exhaust soundtrack or instaboosting throw you back in the seat experience.  

Have to agree once a boost junky always a boost junky.  After the novalty of a non aspirated exhaust note wears off, you do indeed miss that shove in the seat whilst the only gauge you care about on the dash being the boost  gauge.

 

[hugh]

If your aim is to go fast, easily, with maximum safety & comfort then a newer Porsche is an obvious choice. 

Old Porsche's are still fast cars but require far more effort to manage and extract the results out of - that's exactly what creates the charm and driving satisfaction. I'm more interested in the raw driving experience than the conveniences of a modern car, hence why I'm drawn to the older cars. Yes, modern cars are easier to drive & live with but ironically that's what makes the experience less exciting or rewarding for myself. 

I had a 964 as a daily for almost 3 years (and aside from the turning circle) loved every minute of it. I'm quite happy in a manual as a daily (always) and I'm currently using my LHD 65 as a daily now since I sold my last DD. I'm, actually struggling to justify buying a newer car as a DD as I'm really enjoying cruising around in the 912, makes every journey a novelty. I am well aware that I'm in the minority though.....................I enjoy suffering and tolerating an older car as it also saves me a gym membership. 

New cars are fantastic, they do everything so well. In terms of "sports" cars the fact that they do everything so well is actually the issue seeing as you will barely be able to push the car to 5/10's on a public road. GT4, GT3's etc. are great but unless you hit the track or are prepared to roll the dice on a public road you'll rarely get to experience their capabilities. Accessing the capability of an older car is far easier (at lower speeds) and is no less fun (fact!) 

So, the decision really comes down to how hard you want to work for the drive. Understandably cars like a 996 are a great happy medium and to me either side of these you start swapping out comforts/sophistication for a more "basic" driving experience/package. Sure, driving around in an old air cooled Porsche looks cool but the sweat stain on your back maybe your downfall. On the plus side massive biceps maybe possible from the lack of power steering (or in my case actually having to wind your windows down manually!) but again you have to be able to accept the inconveniences - driving and relying on old cars daily isn't for everyone but I'll happily do it. 

[tazzieman]

28 minutes ago, hugh said:

On the plus side massive biceps maybe possible from the lack of power steering 

Not enough resistance for massive biceps. You have to backdate to a series Land Rover for that benefit 

[hugh]

15 minutes ago, tazzieman said:

Not enough resistance for massive biceps. You have to backdate to a series Land Rover for that benefit 

"Massive" is a relative term, I'm not a large man. 

[smit2100]

On 23/03/2019 at 18:00, Jason A said:

My 2 cents worth, go and drive all of them first. Then decide.

If you are considering a GT4, try a 996 & 997 GT3 also.

Its a very individual decision.

 

Perhaps what would represent good buying buying value in the future  and kill two birds with one stone would be for @Thommo  to get out of his stock  996 turbo and slide into a tidy 993 manual with a last century build date and a clean stock 996 manual with a build date of this century. So he straddles and has   both centuries covered in terms of P cars.   Ideally, the only  hip pocket hit would be some stamp duty and a bit more insurance and rego per annum.  But he might then  need to negotiate with his partner that their car is relegated to the driveway.  Now when and not if that boost junky addiction can't be shaken,   plan B  kicks in and that is to perhaps  feed that addiction  via living vicariously through his partners daily and reckon a c6 rs6 shopping trolley  represents good value  and bang for boost buying and should adequately feed that boost junky addiction.  But  the 996 is then  relegated to the driveway ( plan b also kills another two birds with one stone ) but  probably best to wrap the 996  if it is a keeper instead of adoption of a  outdoor car cover.

[clutch-monkey]

The advantage of the older cars is that it is a lot of fun to push a tiny 1000kg 200hp vehicle around tight twisty roads than trying to wrestle a larger high powered car through the same roads.. you can push the slower car a lot further, the modern more powerful car you don’t have as many chances to unleash its potential.

the older cars tend to innately have more ground clearance also.

 

 

[ANF]

7 hours ago, hugh said:

If your aim is to go fast, easily, with maximum safety & comfort then a newer Porsche is an obvious choice. 

Old Porsche's are still fast cars but require far more effort to manage and extract the results out of - that's exactly what creates the charm and driving satisfaction. I'm more interested in the raw driving experience than the conveniences of a modern car, hence why I'm drawn to the older cars. Yes, modern cars are easier to drive & live with but ironically that's what makes the experience less exciting or rewarding for myself. 

I had a 964 as a daily for almost 3 years (and aside from the turning circle) loved every minute of it. I'm quite happy in a manual as a daily (always) and I'm currently using my LHD 65 as a daily now since I sold my last DD. I'm, actually struggling to justify buying a newer car as a DD as I'm really enjoying cruising around in the 912, makes every journey a novelty. I am well aware that I'm in the minority though.....................I enjoy suffering and tolerating an older car as it also saves me a gym membership. 

New cars are fantastic, they do everything so well. In terms of "sports" cars the fact that they do everything so well is actually the issue seeing as you will barely be able to push the car to 5/10's on a public road. GT4, GT3's etc. are great but unless you hit the track or are prepared to roll the dice on a public road you'll rarely get to experience their capabilities. Accessing the capability of an older car is far easier (at lower speeds) and is no less fun (fact!) 

So, the decision really comes down to how hard you want to work for the drive. Understandably cars like a 996 are a great happy medium and to me either side of these you start swapping out comforts/sophistication for a more "basic" driving experience/package. Sure, driving around in an old air cooled Porsche looks cool but the sweat stain on your back maybe your downfall. On the plus side massive biceps maybe possible from the lack of power steering (or in my case actually having to wind your windows down manually!) but again you have to be able to accept the inconveniences - driving and relying on old cars daily isn't for everyone but I'll happily do it. 

What you are describing is a 928, classic car with "modern conveniences"!!

I know most of you will laugh at me and disregard, but for those in the know, the 928 is perfect for the daily grind and the weekend blast! Be that auto or manual! It may have power steering, but it is weighted most definitely on the heavy side.

Most prospective Porsche owners don't even consider a 928, which is fine with me (I never want to be one of the heard), just be nice when I race up behind you and pull over to let me past

[3legs]

As an ex 911 and 930 owner I agree wholeheartedly with what Adam said about 928's.

You'd be surprised how well they handle in the right hands ( I'm not one of them 😁).

As others have said once you go boosty you can never be satisfied again however there is a lot to be said about having a big rumbling V8 in front of you plus when you drive with other Porsche owners you will stand out like dogs balls as everyone else will be in the same old boring 911 ( that'll get the insults rolling😁😁😁).

They make a great daily driver and the aircon IS cold.

I love my 928 although I do miss my 930😀

[tazzieman]

8 hours ago, hugh said:

"Massive" is a relative term, I'm not a large man. 

Size is no guarantee of quality...or strength.

[Thommo66]

On 24/03/2019 at 00:26, LeeM said:

 This be it I reckon 

Thanks for tracking this down @LeeM  I have no idea how this would drive. Anybody driven this one or the revamped one in the carsales link in the first post ?

[LeeM]

9 minutes ago, Thommo66 said:

Thanks for tracking this down @LeeM  I have no idea how this would drive. Anybody driven this one or the revamped one in the carsales link in the first post ?

 The Martini I posted is the same car as the 1st link you posted I reckon mate

  It wouldn't drive like a turbo that's for sure. Think you need to drive an air cooled for some distance before dropping some cash on one