981 981 Cayman/Boxster Market Watch / How many manual 981CS's were delivered (ANSWERED)

[981KMan]

On 03/07/2019 at 23:05, nytelfer said:

The Dark Blue car is unusual for a GTS - in particular, no alcantara but rather full leather in 2-tone Black/Luxor Beige, manual sports seats, aluminium interior trim, Sport Design steering wheel & Carrera Classics.

@NBTBRV8 looks like @nytelfer has seen it before too lol mentioned about 6 months ago in this thread

[nytelfer]

The DBM car was offered for sale in Sorrento Vic a little over 2-years ago with 43,000km for $146,500. I suspect most buyers will prefer the Alcantara trim but I rather like the 2 tone leather and contrast to the dark blue. There are not many GTS models with full leather / Alcantara delete - i know of only 2 cars and both were optioned with ventilated seats which were not available with Alcantara.

[981KMan]

Thanks @nytelfer. Now I remember (the Sorrento VIC part). Yes, agreed re: Alcantara - the tan leather with DBM is more of a classic/mature combo which some will like 🙂

[nytelfer]

Arguably, the DBM car is about $15k above market given it is lightly optioned with relatively higher Kms than its logical competitors. Both the Racing Yellow & White GTS manuals have been sitting on Carsales for a long time - clearly very patient sellers waiting for just the right buyer! And speaking of white cars ...... what is going on with the number of white 981 Caymans currently on Carsales? 15 of 41 are white and 8 of those are manuals! Go figure!

[981KMan]

11 hours ago, nytelfer said:

15 of 41 are white and 8 of those are manuals! Go figure!

LOL yes! So much so I started foraging forums for pics of flat White vs Carrara White in case I couldn't wait anymore for a preferred black or red  

[MrMud]

My goodness... it's a whiteout! At least you can select between black, smoke or silver rims.

Gee I like that GTS... I could put up with alcantara on the wheel!

[981KMan]

The white base stripper Cayman finally sold at Porsche Canberra. Had Canberra style mileage on it too over 70K KMs. Probably sold for under $70k as it was on the market for a long time.

What do you guys think a fair price is for a 981 Cayman and Cayman S these days? High 60s for base, high 80s/low 90s for the S? Keeping in mind the 718 GTS 4.0 was just announced, do you think an increase in the supply of flat sixes will push 981 prices down?

Thanks!

[nytelfer]

With some of the 981 Caymans on Carsales now being listed for many months (years?) and with asking prices on some cars being reduced (e.g. the white 981CS manual), it all indicates your suggested prices are likely achievable albeit you may have to accept higher kms, no extended warranty and/or a lower specification. Difficult to say what the arrival of the 718 GTS 4.0 specifically will do for 981 prices - as an existing 981CS owner, it’s a big jump to upgrade to a lightly optioned GTS 4.0 (say +$100k) so, as much as I would love a new 4.0, not sure I could justify the premium - suspect the lack of PDK for 718 GTS 4.0 (at least initially) will narrow its appeal so it’s difficult to call!

[981KMan]

Thanks for your thoughts @nytelfer as I know you follow the market really closely! Good point re: the GTS 4.0 being still a huge jump. It looks as though they are priced similar to the 981 GT4 when new, and Porsche are just making sure that market isn't priced out by the 718 GT4 prices...?

So being a different market, it may not have a huge impact on the base/S 981... But only time will tell 🙂

In your experience guys, are white cars harder to sell privately? As pointed out, there's just so many white 981s that seem to sit on the market for a long time... 

[Arnage]

CTS just sold a 2014 S in white less than 30k Klm's advertised at $89,990. It was on Carsales 1 day. High spec car, chrono, pse, +++. CTS not known to under sell. Would this suggest $90k is the high water mark?

couple of UK "S" cars where owners are in denial on price.

If cars sit for ages it usually means there is a issue with the car or the price is too high IMO.

[rego]

12 hours ago, Arnage said:

CTS just sold a 2014 S in white less than 30k Klm's advertised at $89,990. It was on Carsales 1 day. High spec car, chrono, pse, +++. CTS not known to under sell. Would this suggest $90k is the high water mark?

couple of UK "S" cars where owners are in denial on price.

If cars sit for ages it usually means there is a issue with the car or the price is too high IMO.

They probably just wanted to clear it out as in my mind it isn't really the sort of car CTS would really want sitting around.

Let's be honest it's been a pretty good run over the last few years in these cars with minimal depreciation for a late model sports car.

[nytelfer]

Hi @981KMan and your question about selling white cars privately .... I read an article somewhere this week that noted white was still the most popular colour for new car buyers by some margin so (intuitively) you would expect that preference to carry over into the used market. Personal preference but I think Porsche sports cars in particular look brilliant in white and don’t scream “I didn’t want to pay for metallic” like some other makes. That said, the majority of the white 981s currently listed for sale are lightly optioned, and in the used market (as highlighted by @Arnage), well optioned vehicles are an easier sell & typically attract a premium. As an aside, I took delivery of new Golf R a couple of days ago for my wife - typically for a VW, there were only 5 colours available being white, grey, black, red & blue - we went with her preference which was white whereas I would have gone for grey or blue (both metallic)  - now that is in the garage, the white looks brilliant!

[TwoHeadsTas]

4 minutes ago, nytelfer said:

Hi @981KMan and your question about selling white cars privately .... I read an article somewhere this week that noted white was still the most popular colour for new car buyers by some margin so (intuitively) you would expect that preference to carry over into the used market. Personal preference but I think Porsche sports cars in particular look brilliant in white and don’t scream “I didn’t want to pay for metallic” like some other makes. That said, the majority of the white 981s currently listed for sale are lightly optioned, and in the used market (as highlighted by @Arnage), well optioned vehicles are an easier sell & typically attract a premium. As an aside, I took delivery of new Golf R a couple of days ago for my wife - typically for a VW, there were only 5 colours available being white, grey, black, red & blue - we went with her preference which was white whereas I would have gone for grey or blue (both metallic)  - now that is in the garage, the white looks brilliant!

Whilst I love the Speed Yellow that my LHD 996 GT3 was, I do much prefer a white car myself, with my last 5 daily's being white apart from the current one, which would have been white if I could have found one at the time.  Interesting that while I was mulling over the purchase of the RHD GT3 recently, I did consider alternatives such as a manual 997S, and all I could find was black cars, which put me off that option totally!!! 

When we were looking for a 2013 981 Boxster 15 months ago to replace my wife's 987S, my preferred colour was white, of which there would have been 3 or 4 available, she wanted the dark blue of the car we got (her car so her choice)......

And nytelfer, I reckon white Golf Rs look sensational, nicely understated, the wolf in sheep's clothing......

[981KMan]

Thanks again @nytelfer and all! 

Colour aside, what would be more desirable when comparing an older 981 S model (say 2013/2014) compared with a newer base model (2016)? Price is starting to narrow between the two. Assuming the example S had its major service done and still under warranty..... Are there parts on the 981 that need attention/changing coming up to its 7th/8th year that would make it more costly to maintain? Personally I'm leaning towards an S in that scenario for the extra torque.

P.s. the Sorrento VIC manual GTS in DBM is now back at Porsche Melbourne(?) as a Porsche approved car ..

 

 

[rego]

5 hours ago, 981KMan said:

Thanks again @nytelfer and all! 

Colour aside, what would be more desirable when comparing an older 981 S model (say 2013/2014) compared with a newer base model (2016)? Price is starting to narrow between the two. Assuming the example S had its major service done and still under warranty..... Are there parts on the 981 that need attention/changing coming up to its 7th/8th year that would make it more costly to maintain? Personally I'm leaning towards an S in that scenario for the extra torque.

P.s. the Sorrento VIC manual GTS in DBM is now back at Porsche Melbourne(?) as a Porsche approved car ..

 

 

Nothing that makes it more expensive, service costs including additional service costs + km/year from the dealer are published here https://www.porschewilloughby.com.au/Service-Matrix-Boxster-And-Cayman so you can subtract a bit if you go to a third party.

In terms of common consumables which may need to be replaced I recently got a third party to do my brakes and it was $2200 to replace all the rotors and pads including wear sensors, tyres are just over $2,000 for a set of N spec PS4S so factor that in if either need to be replaced.

I'd get the S for sure, such a nice sounding engine and it won't depreciate near as much.

[981KMan]

Good to know @rego - thanks! Michelins and brakes would be a given to prep for the track anyway 😉 For warranty extension purposes, are aftermarket pads and rotors OK? "Factory" ones are usually way overpriced... Although it may be possible to find OEM ones cheaper and fitted elsewhere, and being a consumable, they can't really cause a fuss about the warranty...?

P.s. still got the Boxster S?

[rego]

1 hour ago, 981KMan said:

Good to know @rego - thanks! Michelins and brakes would be a given to prep for the track anyway 😉 For warranty extension purposes, are aftermarket pads and rotors OK? "Factory" ones are usually way overpriced... Although it may be possible to find OEM ones cheaper and fitted elsewhere, and being a consumable, they can't really cause a fuss about the warranty...?

P.s. still got the Boxster S?

You need everything factory for the warranty extension and they fuss on everything including having N spec tyres that are within their specs for wear. The savings on brakes are made by not doing the work at the dealer and I think $2,200 to do all 4 pads + rotors is not outlandish.

I've still got the Boxster, doing close to 15,000km a year and loving every minute!  It's so nice to have a car you can rack up worry free km on and with Porsche extending their program to allow a 15 year warranty it means I'll probably have this car for a long time..

Also got myself anouther MX5 (2009 NC2) to do track work in since I realised how much I love jumping curbs and not fretting about my car on the track.

[nytelfer]

@981KMan - I would go for an “S“over a base model for the added performance, bigger brakes, and slightly better equipment levels - in terms of performance, the jump from 2.7 to 3.4 is more significant (+37Kw, +80Nm) than the marginal step-up from “S” model to “GTS” model (+11Kw, +10Nm) - that said, the advantage of the 2.7 is it’s a very sweet engine, with some suggesting it is smoother at high revs. I am big wrap for Michelin’s PS4S tyres - massive improvement over P Zeros - no price disadvantage for supply/fitting through an authorised Porsche dealer.

On the maintenance question, my car is at 38,000km and it has all been routine to date - rotors & pads are still original etc. I will update after the intermediate service booked for early April. The one caution, however, is in the Carsales listing for the white 2013 CS manual - it has travelled just under 25,000km and the comments say “scheduled timing belt replacement was completed” (major cost). I have had a good look through my service books and can’t see the belt replacement scheduled anywhere so question if this one was showing signs that replacement was necessary?

 

 

 

 

[rego]

1 hour ago, nytelfer said:

@981KMan

The one caution, however, is in the Carsales listing for the white 2013 CS manual - it has travelled just under 25,000km and the comments say “scheduled timing belt replacement was completed” (major cost). I have had a good look through my service books and can’t see the belt replacement scheduled anywhere so question if this one was showing signs that replacement was necessary?

These cars don't have timing belts, they have timing chains.

He probably means the drive belt which are due for a check after 4 years by the book. 991's mandate a replacement every 6 years so the dealer either thought it needed to be replaced after inspecting it or they just followed the same schedule as they follow for the 911's.

I wouldn't be concerned about it being done, the dealer probably just did it because they can.

[Prodigy]

Am hoping it's ok with 981Kman that i jump into his thread but reading through i found it very interesting, I've also been in the market for a long time looking for a manual base 981 Cayman or Cayman S. I probably have the same Carsales listings saved as yourself lol. I'm in WA so pickings are pretty non existent here.

I've only ever driven a base 981 PDK Boxster and was pretty underwhelmed with the power tbh, hoping a manual will feel a little more engaging and make up for the lack of power. Ideally an S will be my pick if i can find one at a good price. 

I've had my eye on the two white manuals in Vic, does the difference between a base and an S warrant the over 30k difference do you think? Pretty sure both have been for sale for quite a while, has anyone physically checked them out? A bit concerning they haven't sold? I'm not sure if it's just my OCD but on the base Cayman does it look like the rear number plate is a bit discolored? Almost like it's blackened slightly from soot out of the exhaust? 

Also would either of the cars have auto blip on downshift as i know some manuals have it, not sure if it's specific to a certain model or an option like sports chrono?

[nytelfer]

Some comments:

- the manual transmission will be slower but (for some) more engaging - that said, I would not rule out a PDK as the transmission as it’s simply the best of the breed and incredibly intuitive - around 90% of 981 cars were PDK so you will have a broader range of cars to choose from;

- an “S” has considerably more power and, more importantly in the context of high revving non turbo engines, a lot more torque (see the no’s above);

- difficult to say if the $30k difference b/w the 2 cars is reasonable without physically inspecting them both to compare condition - the interior of base car does look a little scrappy but the discoloured number plate cover may simply be a build up of grime inside the cover? On the basis of the ad comments, you might conclude the “S” model has been maintained regardless of cost, but, again, the devil will be in the detail - there is likely a premium on the manual “S” for scarcity;

- others may correct me here but the base model, as an MY15 with Sport Chrono will likely have auto rev matching whereas the “S” won’t as the feature wasn’t available on MY13 cars.

Happy searching!

[nassy]

2 hours ago, Prodigy said:

Am hoping it's ok with 981Kman that i jump into his thread but reading through i found it very interesting, I've also been in the market for a long time looking for a manual base 981 Cayman or Cayman S. I probably have the same Carsales listings saved as yourself lol. I'm in WA so pickings are pretty non existent here.

I've only ever driven a base 981 PDK Boxster and was pretty underwhelmed with the power tbh, hoping a manual will feel a little more engaging and make up for the lack of power. Ideally an S will be my pick if i can find one at a good price. 

I've had my eye on the two white manuals in Vic, does the difference between a base and an S warrant the over 30k difference do you think? Pretty sure both have been for sale for quite a while, has anyone physically checked them out? A bit concerning they haven't sold? I'm not sure if it's just my OCD but on the base Cayman does it look like the rear number plate is a bit discolored? Almost like it's blackened slightly from soot out of the exhaust? 

Also would either of the cars have auto blip on downshift as i know some manuals have it, not sure if it's specific to a certain model or an option like sports chrono?

To me, the lack of power may come down to the type of cars you have owned in the past. Coming from a couple of modern turbo hatches, my 987.2 Boxster with the 2.9L felt a little slow. As great as the other parts of the car felt, I couldn’t get away from this and ended up selling the car 9 months later. An ‘S’ model with its bigger capacity and better torque would be a must for me. 
 

[Prodigy]

1 hour ago, nassy said:

To me, the lack of power may come down to the type of cars you have owned in the past. Coming from a couple of modern turbo hatches, my 987.2 Boxster with the 2.9L felt a little slow. As great as the other parts of the car felt, I couldn’t get away from this and ended up selling the car 9 months later. An ‘S’ model with its bigger capacity and better torque would be a must for me. 
 

You are probably correct, my current car is an M2. I know neither will be as quick in a straight line but still wanting something with a bit of get up and go. Sounds like an 'S' is definitely what i should be concentrating on then especially with the extra torque. 

1 hour ago, nytelfer said:

Some comments:

- the manual transmission will be slower but (for some) more engaging - that said, I would not rule out a PDK as the transmission as it’s simply the best of the breed and incredibly intuitive - around 90% of 981 cars were PDK so you will have a broader range of cars to choose from;

- an “S” has considerably more power and, more importantly in the context of high revving non turbo engines, a lot more torque (see the no’s above);

- difficult to say if the $30k difference b/w the 2 cars is reasonable without physically inspecting them both to compare condition - the interior of base car does look a little scrappy but the discoloured number plate cover may simply be a build up of grime inside the cover? On the basis of the ad comments, you might conclude the “S” model has been maintained regardless of cost, but, again, the devil will be in the detail - there is likely a premium on the manual “S” for scarcity;

- others may correct me here but the base model, as an MY15 with Sport Chrono will likely have auto rev matching whereas the “S” won’t as the feature wasn’t available on MY13 cars.

Happy searching!

Thanks for your detailed reply, much appreciated.

I'm definitely leaning towards an 's' now after yours and nassys comments.

 

What are people's thoughts on the price for the manual 'S'? Looks like only option added is the PSE?

[nassy]

How’s this for coincidence, I ended up in a manual M2 Comp! 

[Prodigy]

1 hour ago, nassy said:

How’s this for coincidence, I ended up in a manual M2 Comp! 

Haha...they are pretty awesome, have owned mine since 2016, the longest I've ever kept a car, has been difficult to try and find something comparable to replace it with.