Battle for Ukraine

[Cheshire Cat]

Lets keep going.

25.02.2022. Ukraine got attacked basically from all sides. Mostly - North, East, South. North - heaps "thanks" to another dicktator from Belarus`, lots of troops from there, tanks etc. Russian troops got infamous Chernobil` under their control. For days people use to guess why the hell would they want it for? pootin explained the reason - " we don`t want nazi and neo nazi ukrainians to be able to build a "dirty" nuclear bomb. Well, for having "nazi" regime in Ukraine for about 8 years with Chernobil` right there neither first legally elected president of Ukraine nor second haven`t though about making such bomb. But well, logic has left the building in russia a long time ago.

East. Since 2014 those areas were under control of terrorists separatists. Hence the whole stuff. Ukrainian troops got their positions settled for years, deep in the grounds, all the attention for years was there so, russian attacks wasn`t news. Biggest cities aren`t surrendered, they aren`t even surrounded. Russia looses troops, tanks, aircrafts. 

Ukraine looses people. Not as much by any measure but every human being is counted. 
South. No surprises here - from occupied in 2014 Crimea a big bunch of troops are coming. Kherson is under attack, Nikolaev and my lovely Odessa. Last two are sea ports. Strategic objects. In Nicolaev we have a battleship building shipyard and other goods building factories.

At some stage there were rumours russian troops will start shooting with a heavy artillery for a Zaporozhskaya Nuclear Power Plant, a biggest power plant in Europe. After that kind of "accident" Chernobil` would be quite nothing in terms of a disaster. Thanks to whatever you believe in those were only rumours. 

25.02.2022. We know (or think we know) the evil "genius" masterplan: pootin takes Kyiv, kills Zelensky, or make him run, put his puppet government, Ukrainians are happy cos, well, cos we want to be slaves, what else?

That didn`t happen. Every attack essentially got reflected, no major advance of russian army in Ukraine whatsoever. pootin says< and I quote: "Ukrainian generals please  get rid of Zelensky, and together we are gonna rule the galaxy as father and son Ukraine. 

Ukrainian generals be like - hell yeah, come at me bi..atch.

 

Russia keeps loosing troops and metal stuff. 

25-26.02.2022. Kyiv under huge pressure. Most of the attacks are reflected, but pootin trying to use saboteurs, infiltrating Kyiv with troops wearing Ukrainian uniform. Minor shootouts, shot down a transport plane with troops, some rocket got intercepted and got into an apartment building in the middle of the city. 

Russian command: we don`t shoot into cities. Nothing endangering life of innocent people. 

[sjm]

Commiserations to you and all Ukrainians. What i don't understand is why NATO isn't helping with boots on the ground. 

[Raven]

4 minutes ago, sjm said:

Commiserations to you and all Ukrainians. What i don't understand is why NATO isn't helping with boots on the ground. 

Sorry if this sounds insensitive but being a former Soldier who served in Afghanistan under a Nato lead coalition ISAF , I would have to say that there is nothing in it for them or alternatively they have more to lose than gain if they get involved . 

[P0RKY]

1 minute ago, Raven said:

Sorry if this sounds insensitive but being a former Soldier who served in Afghanistan under a Nato lead coalition ISAF , I would have to say that there is nothing in it for them or alternatively they have more to lose than gain if they get involved . 

How sad, but how true. The soldiers aren’t the perpetrators - they are expected to follow orders. The politicians are the true perps. They always are. 
 

My thoughts are with the innocent Ukrainian people - as well as the common Russian folk - I’m willing to bet that if the citizenry had a say in how things were to unfold, NO ONE - absolutely NO ONE - would ever want war.

[sleazius]

9 minutes ago, sjm said:

Commiserations to you and all Ukrainians. What i don't understand is why NATO isn't helping with boots on the ground. 

Because that would mean full scale war with Russia. Their military might has waned, but they’re still holding the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons. Doesn’t help that the man holding the button pines for the restoration of the sovIet union, and is pushing 70. It’s simply too much of a risk because Putin is too unpredictable.

The best possible outcome is the oligarchs ‘retire’ him and install someone else. If this war doesn’t go his way it is highly likely that is the outcome. Never corner a wild animal and all that… especially one that can blow up the planet.

[P0RKY]

25 minutes ago, sleazius said:

Because that would mean full scale war with Russia. Their military might has waned, but they’re still holding the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons. Doesn’t help that the man holding the button pines for the restoration of the sovIet union, and is pushing 70. It’s simply too much of a risk because Putin is too unpredictable.

The best possible outcome is the oligarchs ‘retire’ him and install someone else. If this war doesn’t go his way it is highly likely that is the outcome. Never corner a wild animal and all that… especially one that can blow up the planet.

The oligarchs alone won't be able to do much without the express support of the siloviki. Essentially, if the economic sanctions hit hard enough, and if China doesn't end up being the wildcard in this, there's hope that both the oligarchs and the siloviki will feel the financial pain enough to want to do something about it.

 

Russia can preach all it wants about not targeting civilians - but, soldiers are people too, and no one needs to die for a madman's mission.

[LeeM]

 We've all known every Russian government have just been a pack of assholes for how long? Yet now all of a sudden people are surprised Putin invaded Ukraine? 

 It was bound to happen sooner or later, when you have an egomaniac dictator Nazi in power that brings in a new law so that he can not be challenged until 2032.

 Someone just needs to end his life, and the sooner the better. The US won't try it, as that will just be an all out war against them and their allies if they fail, so it needs to come from within. Same goes for China and their bunch of lunatics in power

[Mike D'Silva]

3 hours ago, LeeM said:

 

 Someone just needs to end his life, and the sooner the better. The US won't try it, as that will just be an all out war against them and their allies if they fail, so it needs to come from within. Same goes for China and their bunch of lunatics in power

agree

[Fishcop]

5 hours ago, sjm said:

Commiserations to you and all Ukrainians. What i don't understand is why NATO isn't helping with boots on the ground. 

Ukraine is not actually a signatory to NATO so there is no contract - though they had an opportunity which was foiled by their then pro Russia President in 2010.  It was a second approach to join NATO in 2014 that actually began what is going on now.  NATO won't put boots on ground unless Poland or maybe Moldova are at risk - or maybe if Germany exerts pressure.  There is only one man that that could have influenced this current event to a peaceful outcome, and he is observing with great interest as he ruminates over Taiwan.

[Cheshire Cat]

12 hours ago, Raven said:

Sorry if this sounds insensitive but being a former Soldier who served in Afghanistan under a Nato lead coalition ISAF , I would have to say that there is nothing in it for them or alternatively they have more to lose than gain if they get involved . 

If there is a chance to give me a hint, where I could take a military training here in Australia, prefer Melbourne. Regular army is no go, no citizenship yet and aged of 41. No kidding.

 

About the rest, last night pootin blamed western countries to treat russia badly, so, essentially he is planning on using nuclear weapon against the world. 

I could put a link on his fresh briefing or meeting or whatever you call it. But it`s in russian so not much help around here. 

A time for NATO yet? Yes, question this is a sarcasm.

[3legs]

I'm not so sure putin would use nukes. I doubt the military would allow it unless nukes were raining down on Russia. Putin might be mad but the military brass know what would happen if even one nuke was launched and so do china. 

They both know that both their countries would be obliterated and not just by the USA.

Here's me hoping like mad that I'm right.

[Dalai]

And here was I thinking after the last 2 years of Covid around the globe, things couldn't get worse...

I feel for the people of the Ukraine. All because of one lunatic despot!

I bet China is following closely how the West reacts. If a toothless Tiger response, I see Taiwan back under CCP rule shortly.

[LeeM]

23 minutes ago, Dalai said:

 

I bet China is following closely how the West reacts. If a toothless Tiger response, I see Taiwan back under CCP rule shortly.

 For sure they'll be watching, as they have the same intentions as Russia...world domination.

 Why the hell the west, or even their own people,  don't take them out is beyond me. It's clear that Putin and He Ping Ping are just nutjobs like Bin Laden etc, so it's hopeful that someone with a terminal disease or death wish rolls up and put a few rounds in their heads

[sleazius]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/s6g5un/want_to_support_ukraine_heres_a_list_of_charities/

 

[Fishcop]

6 hours ago, LeeM said:

 For sure they'll be watching, as they have the same intentions as Russia...world domination.

 Why the hell the west, or even their own people,  don't take them out is beyond me. It's clear that Putin and He Ping Ping are just nutjobs like Bin Laden etc, so it's hopeful that someone with a terminal disease or death wish rolls up and put a few rounds in their heads

Neither Putin or Xi want world domination as a primary exercise.  The are both deeply (and troublingly) nationalist.  Both want a return to their romanticised histories when the USSR and Chinese multi-generational dynasties held enormous power.  These were times when information was controlled and the concept of western politics and liberalism was squashed.  They see the erosion of State by their forbears as a grievous misstep.  Both countries keep the huge majority of their people very poor and reliant on the government and socialist state.  It's only been in recent times that access to information about the rest of the world has made it's way to their people (and the ability for an individual to independently seek and gain wealth).  North Korea is the last bastion of information lockdown and severe State oppression - and they've managed to keep the internet out of the peoples' reach.

Both Russia and China have been consistently embarrassed by the West both intentionally and accidentally - and the countries are led by 70 year old men with long memories, bent perspectives, and a deep hatred of western interference.  Both desire to 'undo the western malaise' in their countries within their lifetimes. 

Xi is untouchable.  Putin could be reined in by other oligarchs if he missteps - this is an endgame for him; it'll either see Russia become an emboldened powerhouse or he'll be internally removed.  I suspect if the latter occurs, it will be before a "button" is pushed.

[LeeM]

2 hours ago, Fishcop said:

Both countries keep the huge majority of their people very poor and reliant on the government and socialist state.

  Like Victoria/Andrews

  North Korea

  Another nutjob

Both Russia and China have been consistently embarrassed by the West 

  And continue to be, when most other countries think they're off their heads...which they are.

Thanks for the informed reply

[Fishcop]

@LeeM I guess the point I was making regarding the 'embarrassing' remark is that like all bullies - they don't like to be embarrassed.  They simmer and plot, and wait for their moment to get even with you - it consumes them.  Ukraine is on the end of that spite right now.  If this was schoolyard fight, now is the time to call out the bully and assist the smaller kid with a conjoined and decisive effort.  However it's not Hollywood and some of the West is unfortunately governed by less than the best - Boris the Buffoon, Slightly Senile Biden, and a few other bit players that don't actually matter such as our own Scummo. 

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Ok, an update.

26.02.2022-28.02.2022

Basically, nothing much has changed. 

Quite a few times fey places changed hands. Once russians got some place, then we take it back, than again and again. Russians moving really slow, all the strategy got ruined. 

We are loosing civils and, we are loosing troops. Official numbers of our military losses till today (as I know about) 139 people. Much more civils. 

Is that it? I`m quite sure it`s not. But the fog of war... 

Official losses for russians - 4300+ people, 146+ tanks 706 APCs, 27 planes, helicopters etc. These are an official numbers by Ukrainians.

Why and how?

Ukrainians are defending their own homes. Literally. Motivation is HUGE. President Zelensky is in Kyiv, he is alive, he is on spot, he shows he is there and no one doubts. He had a chance to be evacuated and he responded: "I need ammunition not a ride". This is something that pootin not capable of. 

Ukrainian civils do everything to help out the Army. People looking after soldiers, doing everything that could be done as surveillance. All the enemies marks of landing on sites got spotted and fixed, all the enemies movements are spotted and shared. All Ukrainian Forces movements are hidden, no one takes shots and no one posts them online. At least I haven`t seen any.

Literally the whole Ukrainian community basically works as one. Everything for the victory.

Ukrainian celebrities take arms and volunteer to Army. Boxers Lomachenko, Usik, Vlad Klitchko, front man of a well known and loved band "BoomBox" Andriy Hlyvnyuk are volunteered. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPg5YPub40w&ab_channel=ТелеканалІНТБ

Russian army disorganised, non motivated, not enough trained. 

Russian media claims this is not a war, this is a special operation. To say more - everyone that says it`s a war within Russian Federation - get fined and blocked. People who com out on the streets of russian cities with simple banners of "say no to war" get imprisoned. Immediately. 

Russian command finally claimed they have some losses. Not much, like a few? Ukrainians surrender in huge numbers, people are happy to see russian soldiers. Ukrainan army almost disappeared. Russians rely on lies. They don`t want to let go of propaganda. Russian parents and other relatives don`t know their kids, husbands, dads and brother either dead or in captivity. Ukrainians set up a hot line and web site for russians to find out information about their relatives and russian propaganda system aka rospotrebnadsor (russian consumer control) blocked that hot line and web side for russians.  

People in Ukraine live under a lot of stress. People in major cities sit in shelters a lot. Sometimes missiles get into apartment buildings. Not sure if that accidently or intentionally. 

Women and kids are fleeing the country, Poland, Moldova take refugees on simplified rules, helping with almost everything. 

Some amount of looting, in some towns there is an order to looters on spot. 

I`m on an emotional rollercoaster. I hear news of column of tanks and armoured vehicles coming toward my parents town - I get nervous. In 5-10 hours I hear that everything is fine. Mom and dad and the rest are safe. So far.

But they won`t go. They won`t live their home. 

[LeeM]

 It's not the size of the dog in the fight. It's the size of fight in the dog! 

Putin has underestimated the Ukranians hearts 

 Have seen some footage on Instagram that seems to have been fact checked and is legit. The Reds are getting ambushed a lot and getting smashed! 👍 

 

[Dalai]

Happy Ukraine is showing opposition. Unfortunately though it means young conscripted kids who are just following orders are getting killed whilst Putin sits safe at home in the Kremlin.

Note I am not a fan of Russia as my Latvian grandparents on my dads side were sent to Siberia after WW2. Took me a while, but realized it isn't the country that is to blame it's the people in power!

[sleazius]

36 minutes ago, Dalai said:

Happy Ukraine is showing opposition. Unfortunately though it means young conscripted kids who are just following orders are getting killed whilst Putin sits safe at home in the Kremlin.

Note I am not a fan of Russia as my Latvian grandparents on my dads side were sent to Siberia after WW2. Took me a while, but realized it isn't the country that is to blame it's the people in power!

There are bad apples in every bunch - Russians are no different. A lot of them are kids who were told they were on a training exercise and didn't realise they weren't until they started getting shot at. On the other hand there are plenty of spetsnaz there who will do whatever they're told, including murder anyone who gets in their way.

If this goes too far south, it won't matter which bunker Putin is sitting in, someone will take matters into their own hands.

If you've got 20 mins to spare, watch this - it is a great primer on rulers in general and how they stay in power, or don't.

 

[Dalai]

1 hour ago, sleazius said:

There are bad apples in every bunch - Russians are no different.

True. But didn't help visiting Latvia to meet my dads side of the family when I was 8 and the country still under Russian occupation. Mum was interrogated, our hotel room bugged (was Winter and mum mentioned that she was cold, next morning staff offered more blankets) and we were tailed when walking the streets of Riga (men in trench coats just like in the movies!)!

 Plus my mum and maternal grandparents had to drop everything and flee their farm near the now named Kaliningrad during WW2. 

Therefore the hate was strong as a child for what happened to both sides of my family. Mums having to leave everything with the approaching Russians only a few km away and how my dads relatives were living 3 families in a house with inside pit toilet in Riga and that I lost my paternal grandparents because of them!

I did go to the farm late 90's with my mum as she wanted to see it one last time having fled as a young girl. It was there meeting people on the ground where my opinions changed. These people had nothing (supermarket shelves in Kaliningrad were bare) and they would still invite you into their homes and provide tea and any food they had to complete strangers. 

[FAP911]

https://fb.watch/btQftd86Ns/

Let me stress totally opposed to the Russian invasion but can someone explain why Ukraine couldn't have maintained status quo! What am I missing! Putin raises some interesting analogies

Could all the unnecessary blood shed been averted?

[P0RKY]

1 hour ago, FAP911 said:

https://fb.watch/btQftd86Ns/

Let me stress totally opposed to the Russian invasion but can someone explain why Ukraine couldn't have maintained status quo! What am I missing! Putin raises some interesting analogies

Could all the unnecessary blood shed been averted?

That part about the US and NATO putting missiles on Russia’s doorstep is so similar to what the US did in Turkey that led to the Cuban missile crisis. The Americans do as they please and get away with it and when others try to do the same, it’s suddenly wrong. 
 

that’s why I said earlier - so much a case of pot calling the kettle. 
 

And when 2 large countries clash, the innocent, smaller ones get trampled underfoot.

[FAP911]

I'm 100% supportive of protecting a democratic world, and the West got into bed with a dictator, now innocent people are dying, displaced and the world remains divided again! Totally opposed to the Ukraine invasion, but could it have been avoided finding some middle ground! No winners in war particularly the innocent lives lost!