968 bought in Australia or overseas (UK)

[MARTY]

Stupid question probably been asked a thousand times but here goes.968’s are thin on the ground here we have 3 currently on Carsales one a Clubsport uk import,one a nice white manual for $76000 (me thinks this is a bit much)and a blue tip again brought over from Japan I think.For the same money ish that the white one is advertised for 76k is it worth buying a Clubsport version from the UK? Ok luxury tax has to be paid on that and shipping.

I know a lot of owners are put off by UK cars because of salt issues and the dreaded rust issues,But if a very good Clubsport could be sourced for roughly the same price which would be the best option? I’m not overly concerned about resale values down the line I know most Aussies would only buy a locally delivered car and I get that.

[tomo]

3 hours ago, MARTY said:

 

I know a lot of owners are put off by UK cars because of salt issues and the dreaded rust issues,But if a very good Clubsport could be sourced for roughly the same price which would be the best option? I’m not overly concerned about resale values down the line I know most Aussies would only buy a locally delivered car and I get that.

 If resale is not an issue get the one in the best condition, Drive the wheels of it and enjoy.

[reedminor]

I’m not concerned where it was delivered.

if it’s thoroughly checked and it checks out the CS is a no brainer. And you and vendor agree on fair price for both of you. They are a sublime car to drive, on road or on track.

yes the car might rust, but you also might get hit by a bus. Don’t die wondering.

justin

[bear924]

I also like to have a look at the UK market.  I find some cars are priced significantly different ... others less so.  What is hard to know is the quality of the lower priced cars.  

In regards to 968 club sports, a glance at that market in the UK suggest one could be picked up for 35k pounds.  A rough rule of thumb for cost to land it Australia is x2 + $15k.  So that would get you a club sport landed for $85k.  The +$15k is rough and doesn't include any PPI or moving the car within the UK .. purely shipping, taxes and a small allowance for incidentals. 

Suppose the question is how much is all the hassle (and risk) or importing from the UK worth to you?  I haven't imported before, it would certainly be an interesting exercise. I think if you buy knowing that when you sell the market will price differently to an Australian delivered car then you're good to go.  Advantage of a non Aus delivered car is that the interiors don't tend to be a damaged from the sun.

For fun I also had a look at the white 968.  Seems like a very sorted car and presumably a buy if someone wanted a sorted 968.  I'm not sure if the CS model is worth the premium (when comparing similar delivered cars).  That said, don't buy a non CS if your heart really wants a CS.  I truly believe that the buy in price of any Pcar is in many ways just an ownership deposit, therefore you don't want to buy something and always regret not buying what you really wanted, regardless of what is sensible.  At the end of the day, as long as you know what you are buying and price it accordingly, most models will tend to go up and down on the same tide. 

I'm only a very casual observer of the 968 market and also have now interest in any of the cars mention so my comments should be taken with this context. 

[PomBstard]

I’ve said many times on this forum that, from experience, buy on condition not origin. I’ve also investigated in some detail, to the point of PPI and lining up resources, importing a transaxle from the UK.

I’d agree with others that if you want a CS and agree a price with the vendor then there’s no reason to fear the one being advertised - usual caveats of getting it checked remain.

If you want to import, there are numerous resources both here and in the UK to help, some better than others but the market there does have much more choice and many specialists that can right all sorts of wrongs to an astonishingly good end.

Finally, the white regular car is, IMO, still a little over priced, based on a couple of recent sales, one of which was the black 968 that sold at Shannon’s last month for $55k, and the other is my own recent purchase of a pretty good example for a sum in the same ballpark. However I didn’t look at this one, and scarcity does odd things to the market!

[Foibles]

So here we go again (sigh). Firstly Marty, I'm the vendor of that red 968cs. Secondly, it's been much discussed here on this forum already, yet nobody has bothered to actually go and look at it. Thirdly, it had a full PPI in the UK, but more importantly, I've put it through one of those very expensive but meticulous Porsche centre Melbourne inspections, where it got an extremely positive outcome. The service manager seemed thoroughly convinced it was a great car that should move with no problems. But the market does what the market wants. 

I agree with most others re the comment of buy on condition. However there are the usual caveats....if you're comparing apples and apples, the Aus delivered always attracts a premium simply for being that...hence a c16 UK model must offer itself at a discount to the Aus delivered... is it c23? Normally I'd consider a 20% discount fair and realistic. My guess is a well sorted c23 968cs is about a 140k proposition, hence a 20% discount is 112k. If you expect a 25% discount...then make the c16 a 105k car.

In terms of importing....having done more than 300 before...which I can readily demonstrate... I'd say I have a good handle on it. Not just the process and the costs, but also the reality and the risks.

A 35k GBP car will run you to about 63k just to buy. Add sales tax to get you to 66200. Add shipping to get you to 76000. Add gst to get you to 83600. Add lct to get you to about 88000. Compliance...Inland Freight...Yada Yada...about 93k all up.

There you go...a 35k GBP car will cost you about 93k AUD to land and comply at the minute.

For those who ask why 10k shipping...I guess you don't have experience with international vehicle freight during a pandemic and European war. Good luck with the logistics. Good luck with the reduced and forever altering shipping schedules. Good luck with the increased fuel fees. Good luck with your asbestos and BMSB procedures. Do you really want to send your car RORO? I doubt you will if it's your pride and joy. So are you across the costs of your own 20' shipping container? Why not contact some shipping companies and get a quote for such right now. Aside from the costs...you have protracted sailing times right now..likely vessel interchange at the Singapore hub...etc. expect the end to end from buying in UK to landing on your door to take 9 months. All the while whilst you wear risks of something going wrong. So you'll obviously want insurance on your shipping too. After all, mine sailed on OPUS one which lost much of its cargo overboard after dropping mine into Singapore and heading on to Japan.

That is assuming you find one at 35k GBP. I doubt you will. Slim pickings over there at the moment. From memory, the white one at 35k is rubbish, and likely the one I inspected 3 years ago at 20k, which had a solid smattering of'ginger'. Right now you'd have to do your ppi over there and hope it was good enough not to have blown 1k AUD on the costs of getting that PPI done over there.

I imagine the two at Porsche centre Glasgow are both fine cars. They don't negotiate on price much. And your Inland freight from Glasgow to the correct shipping port will cost an arm and a leg right now.

So there you have it on UK imports.

Sorry Marty, I don't think you raised the notion of importing...others did...but I'm enlightening some of the 'chancing of the process' that may be being discussed. 

Get your 968 ....or most cars.... Here in Oz if you can.

Talk to me about my car and let's haggle a price that you can use to P*ss off the rest of them who should have gotten off their ar*es and acted rather than speculating. You won't be disappointed. 

Pm me if you wish.

 

 

 

[Foibles]

Sorry....early in the morning. I forgot to add local port fees and customs brokerage etc etc.

For 35k GBP right now you might find yourself coughing up close to 100k.

And for anyone who knows better...you only have to tell us which UK truckies, customs handlers, which container shipping lines, Aus brokerage companies, FX companies and most importantly which compliance agents here in Aus will actually stand behind the prices which you claim they'll provide you right now. I doubt you'll get local compliance under 3k for instance. On a really bad day if you have the wrong exhaust etc you might be closer to 7k. Importing is extremely easy till you do it, and for those who do it once off 9r rarely...it's not worth chancing.

The white one looks very nice and a Buchanan's service history is as good as you could wish for. Mine also had the sebro brakes to accompany the car, alongside kW V3 suspension which I believe is fantastic, I surely enjoyed my drive through country Vic in it. As well as what appears to be a reasonably expensive full sports exhaust, cat delete, which I had to swap out with a cat zorst for compliance. Hence the comment above about on road costs.

I'd give the white one a close look. Make sure that a 'full' service history means a 'regular' history. Mine has 26 stamps in the book for instance.

[Frank]

That pretty much sums up importing at this stage and what a thorough generously detailed outline of the headache and risks associated with it.

 

Cheers

[Foibles]

Cheers Frank. I hasten to add, it is a great time to buy a car right now....at least from an AUD perspective... But it is a highly undesirable to freight a car right now, especially containerised freight from Northern Hemisphere. Straight RORO shipping ex Japan is not awful right now, but the auction prices for JDM cars however is quite stratospheric. My friend bought a TVR Cerbera from Wales last month... he's storing it near Southampton for 18 months till it's clear for export after which time things may have settled, so it seemed an astute purchase.

 

[crsedge]

For what it is worth, I would be happy to buy @Foibles 968.

I had an Aussie standard 968 previously and gave some serious consideration to the red CS, as owning a CS is an itch I have always wanted to scratch (and still do...).

In the end I purchased a UK 996 which has been great (and no dreaded rust other than mufflers which I have since replaced), but have no qualms buying  a UK car that has undergone a PPI.

[Foibles]

On reading the carsales as for the white 968, I note the seller states it will soon be eligible for historic plates. I should add that it is already eligible in Vic, and for those not across this, the real benefit of club plates is the savings on stamp duty. Of course, this is irrelevant if you already own the car. But if you're buying it first time, the saving can be considerable. A 100k used car can save close to 5k in stamp duty 'avoided'. 

And for those wondering 'if I have a car on Vic club plates...can I drive that in other states?'...the answer is yes. So import your 1997 car through Vic, comply it and rwc it there, put it on Vic plates IF YOU CAN, then ship it interstate where you live.

[Carrot01]

wow, looking at those costs/risks for UK importing makes me think I got a pretty good deal on my Turbo last month

[MARTY]

9 hours ago, Foibles said:

So here we go again (sigh). Firstly Marty, I'm the vendor of that red 968cs. Secondly, it's been much discussed here on this forum already, yet nobody has bothered to actually go and look at it. Thirdly, it had a full PPI in the UK, but more importantly, I've put it through one of those very expensive but meticulous Porsche centre Melbourne inspections, where it got an extremely positive outcome. The service manager seemed thoroughly convinced it was a great car that should move with no problems. But the market does what the market wants. 

I agree with most others re the comment of buy on condition. However there are the usual caveats....if you're comparing apples and apples, the Aus delivered always attracts a premium simply for being that...hence a c16 UK model must offer itself at a discount to the Aus delivered... is it c23? Normally I'd consider a 20% discount fair and realistic. My guess is a well sorted c23 968cs is about a 140k proposition, hence a 20% discount is 112k. If you expect a 25% discount...then make the c16 a 105k car.

In terms of importing....having done more than 300 before...which I can readily demonstrate... I'd say I have a good handle on it. Not just the process and the costs, but also the reality and the risks.

A 35k GBP car will run you to about 63k just to buy. Add sales tax to get you to 66200. Add shipping to get you to 76000. Add gst to get you to 83600. Add lct to get you to about 88000. Compliance...Inland Freight...Yada Yada...about 93k all up.

There you go...a 35k GBP car will cost you about 93k AUD to land and comply at the minute.

For those who ask why 10k shipping...I guess you don't have experience with international vehicle freight during a pandemic and European war. Good luck with the logistics. Good luck with the reduced and forever altering shipping schedules. Good luck with the increased fuel fees. Good luck with your asbestos and BMSB procedures. Do you really want to send your car RORO? I doubt you will if it's your pride and joy. So are you across the costs of your own 20' shipping container? Why not contact some shipping companies and get a quote for such right now. Aside from the costs...you have protracted sailing times right now..likely vessel interchange at the Singapore hub...etc. expect the end to end from buying in UK to landing on your door to take 9 months. All the while whilst you wear risks of something going wrong. So you'll obviously want insurance on your shipping too. After all, mine sailed on OPUS one which lost much of its cargo overboard after dropping mine into Singapore and heading on to Japan.

That is assuming you find one at 35k GBP. I doubt you will. Slim pickings over there at the moment. From memory, the white one at 35k is rubbish, and likely the one I inspected 3 years ago at 20k, which had a solid smattering of'ginger'. Right now you'd have to do your ppi over there and hope it was good enough not to have blown 1k AUD on the costs of getting that PPI done over there.

I imagine the two at Porsche centre Glasgow are both fine cars. They don't negotiate on price much. And your Inland freight from Glasgow to the correct shipping port will cost an arm and a leg right now.

So there you have it on UK imports.

Sorry Marty, I don't think you raised the notion of importing...others did...but I'm enlightening some of the 'chancing of the process' that may be being discussed. 

Get your 968 ....or most cars.... Here in Oz if you can.

Talk to me about my car and let's haggle a price that you can use to P*ss off the rest of them who should have gotten off their ar*es and acted rather than speculating. You won't be disappointed. 

Pm me if you wish.

 

 

 

I did comment about your car @Foibles on the other 968 post it’s a great looking car as is the white one in Sydney I just think that one is overpriced.

[Jedly]

Forget container at moment it’s just not doable there simply aren’t any ….  but roro really is fine … my oz delivered 964 c2 just left Southampton , sat amongst several RR ….if it’s good enough for rolls Royce , Range Rover , Bentley then it’s good enough for me … this will be my 13th car Brought that way to melbourne with two more in wings …

 

the advantage of roro to my mind is that the crew are down there every single day inspecting lashings and tie downs … if a car breaks free in a container , it’s a pinball for the entire journey ….and if it falls overboard or the stack collapses well …..

 

Just for comparison …My figures on a £35k car ( not the 964 obviously ) ..under 30 years old 

Purchase $61500

shipping cost roro $4500

( includes transport to asbestos report lab , shipping to dock ) 

lct … 0

duty $ 3650

import permit $50

gst $6600

handling / customs brokerage / clean / reclean  $3500

compliance $3k .

 

total $83 —- call it $85k for some f@@k up factor 😜

 

 

 

[MARTY]

Looks really good @Jedly and costs are within reason.It sounds like your garage is way bigger than mine😆

[Foibles]

1 hour ago, Jedly said:

Forget container at moment it’s just not doable there simply aren’t any ….  but roro really is fine … my oz delivered 964 c2 just left Southampton , sat amongst several RR ….if it’s good enough for rolls Royce , Range Rover , Bentley then it’s good enough for me … this will be my 13th car Brought that way to melbourne with two more in wings …

 

the advantage of roro to my mind is that the crew are down there every single day inspecting lashings and tie downs … if a car breaks free in a container , it’s a pinball for the entire journey ….and if it falls overboard or the stack collapses well …..

 

Just for comparison …My figures on a £35k car ( not the 964 obviously ) ..under 30 years old 

Purchase $61500

shipping cost roro $4500

( includes transport to asbestos report lab , shipping to dock ) 

lct … 0

duty $ 3650

import permit $50

gst $6600

handling / customs brokerage / clean / reclean  $3500

compliance $3k .

 

total $83 —- call it $85k for some f@@k up factor 😜

 

 

 

@Jedly...does your broker invoice actually reflect those figures? As you know....duty is 5%. Should be 3075 not 3650. GST is levied on all costs including shipping, local Wharf handling, cleaning and even compounding on your duty component, so would be closer to 7500. LCT kicks in at app 69k at the rate of 33%. How do you get that as $0?

Who does your engineering and what do they charge? Most engineers I know are charging around 800 for their work excluding whatever mods they advise. For a 968, this will include multiple items such as rear brake light, odometer cluster change so that kmh is in larger font than mph etc. Each of these runs to over four figures. Did your engineer not require these? And like I said earlier... want to hope you don't have a cat delete. Did you run an HPI or did you hope that the car wasn't accident damaged in UK? What are your freight costs to the UK docks....I usually pay 3 to 4 GBP per mile, so if the car is near London and not shipped by Felix but via Newcastle or Southampton, that costs me 1k just for that trip. And that's not considering costs of the asbestos tests, costs of the UK side inspection... You're very lucky with what you land! Ever had a second key go missing...a flat battery upon landing in Australia after 45 days sailing (resulting in forklift removal and fee off the boat)...service books go missing, spare parts or stereos stolen, etc? 3 more scratches on the LHS front guard you never saw in the PPI you didn't do? I've probably suffered each of these many times over. And as you know, don't bother hitting up the shipping company, as that gets you nowhere! I'm not saying don't import or don't RORO....but right now you'd want one hell of an inducement to do this... relative to driving or flying to an Aus based car and haggling with cash on the spot. 

And given we're using the 35k GBP figure, and the op is using this in context of a 968cs....first stumbling block is simply finding that cs for 35k GBP. I don't see it.

[Jedly]

The Roro fee includes transport inside Uk and asbestos report . The guy who does the asbestos reports for us ( drop me a pm if you want his details , he’s fantastic ) is now transporting the cars himself on a single flatbed from seller to his workshop and on to Southampton and he doesn’t charge anything like £1k or £3-4 a mile .

 

yes I hpi , and research the arse out of anything I looK at , and it’s amazing how many things I’ve looked at here and over there that I’ve rejected … ( no comment about a certain 996 gt3RS ) … if it’s sold by someone I don’t know It'll be ppi’d unless I know it’s a project …. But it’s not a dear exercise to do that in Uk and I'm lucky to have a couple people I can ask to help out on that front .

 

engineering maybe I’ve been lucky , I’ve used enklemans amongst others , agreed about $800 for fee , but I’ve never had to spend more than a couple grand to get a car to comply … I’ve checked on cat deletes and side intrusion bar status prior to buying as they’d be a f**cker to put right 

 

just to be clear , im not having a pop at your car or it’s value …my figures aren’t a million miles off yours and they don’t include a margin for your time and effort on top of base cost .  …. I’m just saying Roro is the only affordable alternative still running at the moment ….. I just got quoted $13kusd for container space only ( 40ft ) and 3-6 mth wait … if you did it containerised at the moment you’d be up at your numbers I'm sure …..
 

 

[Carrot01]

just had another look at that white 968 on CS (not in person), beautiful car by the looks, as for being overpriced, yeah I tend to agree - but to the right person that must have a 968 probably by 5 or 10k. - Personally, for that kind of $$ or more I would much rather a aussie 89 or 90 944T & 968CS dont do much for me either.

The red CS is awesome and priced well I thought, someone will buy them both I'm sure

[MARTY]

1 hour ago, Carrot01 said:

just had another look at that white 968 on CS (not in person), beautiful car by the looks, as for being overpriced, yeah I tend to agree - but to the right person that must have a 968 probably by 5 or 10k. - Personally, for that kind of $$ or more I would much rather a aussie 89 or 90 944T & 968CS dont do much for me either.

The red CS is awesome and priced well I thought, someone will buy them both I'm sure

The problem would be can a 944 turbo be bought for the price of the white 968? And if we say the white one is overpriced I’m guessing that would make it even harder to find a good 944 turbo.Cars in general that sit around on carsales are doing that for a reason because they are overpriced??

[Carrot01]

2 hours ago, MARTY said:

The problem would be can a 944 turbo be bought for the price of the white 968? And if we say the white one is overpriced I’m guessing that would make it even harder to find a good 944 turbo.Cars in general that sit around on carsales are doing that for a reason because they are overpriced??

well I bought mine for $78 recently which i THINK was a good deal so thats comparable to the white 968. Yeah there are definitely overpriced 944's on Carsales, I think 968 base models are a tough sell at comparable late 944T numbers. I could be way off, been away from these cars a very long time.

But what the hell, its only money buy what you want and enjoy it how you like 🙂 

 

For me though, after reading this thread with its great input - Importing a 944/968 from the UK for the common joe would definitely not be an option I would consider at all now.

[Crawf56]

After getting hooked on my 944, I'm now in the market for a good 968 (CS preferred). I'd pay about 60 for the white one but only if it was any other colour but white! I think most buyers have their own peculiarities, and it's just a matter of waiting for the right buyer to come along. 

[Carrot01]

On 13/04/2022 at 19:09, Crawf56 said:

After getting hooked on my 944, I'm now in the market for a good 968 (CS preferred). I'd pay about 60 for the white one but only if it was any other colour but white! I think most buyers have their own peculiarities, and it's just a matter of waiting for the right buyer to come along. 

patience is not something I've had a lot of when looking for cars I want but more often than not I get lucky (part of that is making my own 'luck' lol).

Good on you for being able to wait, did you not see the black 968 that went to auction a few weeks ago?  I hate black cars, would rather a white one any day.  What about the blue 968 on CS - yes its a tipo (not sure if that an issue for you)

[MARTY]

11 minutes ago, Carrot01 said:

patience is not something I've had a lot of when looking for cars I want but more often than not I get lucky (part of that is making my own 'luck' lol).

Good on you for being able to wait, did you not see the black 968 that went to auction a few weeks ago?  I hate black cars, would rather a white one any day.  What about the blue 968 on CS - yes its a tipo (not sure if that an issue for you)

I’d like to think that by waiting the market might cool slightly and as interest rates start to go up will that impact the car market? I’m in no rush and my Minister for finance definitely isn’t 😆 but if people look further afield good cars can be bought and reading this post the costs aren’t too bad.

[Carrot01]

I dunno, my take on it is that generally people that buy ancient expensive cars like these wont be effected by interest rate rises, so I cant see the prices dropping.  

[Foibles]

Here ya go @MARTY.....Riviera blue certainly is striking to and at 35k GBP it's in your budget. It looks good, seemingly well serviced, and low miles.

If you do go for it, I'm eager to see what it ultimately costs and how long it takes, as things are very different than pre Covid days!

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13247659

On 15/04/2022 at 15:17, MARTY said:

I’d like to think that by waiting the market might cool slightly and as interest rates start to go up will that impact the car market? I’m in no rush and my Minister for finance definitely isn’t 😆 but if people look further afield good cars can be bought and reading this post the costs aren’t too bad.

It would certainly impact the car market, but the 968 market is pretty illiquid as you already know. Sure...if you're talking something far more common, say like a 997 911, you'd expect one seller to drop, then another, then a few more rush to the door. But there's not much 968 stock out there to begin with. A private sale 968cs is something you see once a year, twice at best, so nobody would be forcing such a capitulation. Most of my front engined are held in my super fund, so I can sit on them for decades before I care what happens. And as for importing from the UK...you would likely see the price come down a fair few pegs....only to find AUD depreciation completely negates any benefit.