Joz Posted 23April, 2022 Report Share Posted 23April, 2022 A penny for your thoughts. Does anyone wonder what may happen with these cars as the  situation changes đąaway from ICE powered cars. When possibly fuel as we know it Wonât be so readily available as we know it. We've all head about the greens and red ties which seem to be closely linked to some extent pushing clean running powered cars.  (Well in their eyes) .  If 98 disappears đł and is replaced by fast chargers  and possibly a smattering of diesel for long haul vehicles if not hydrogen for them. Will ice run parallel with battery power etc? ok I hope you get my drift. Whts your view and or fears of the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 23April, 2022 Report Share Posted 23April, 2022 No fear from me. Iâll be burning dinosaur bones for the foreseeable future.  We operate essentially as a one car household, still a way off being able to complete those duties with any of the current EVâs.  Enthusiast/hobby cars using petrol will be around for the rest of my lifetime at least. MFX, 3legs, Joz and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joz Posted 23April, 2022 Author Report Share Posted 23April, 2022 ^^ I hope so! I certainly hope those dinosaurs didnât die in vein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 23April, 2022 Report Share Posted 23April, 2022  Lets get it in first, and say the Greens don't give two shits about the planet, as they are just a bunch of self righteous politicians who couldn't hack it in the main game, so they started their own party to make themselves look like they care, and are only in it for personal gain.  Re the ICE v battery powered vehicles. They can run alongside each other no problem, yet it's the smallest people who have the loudest voice, and if the government's continue to bow to the pressure of a MINORITY (which they usually do), then there's bound to be changes made, though not in my lifetime I expect.  Remember when the Australian government were pushing everyone to buy diesel cars? Yeah well, they ran away real quick from their own words when it was proven diesel is a helluva lot more carcinogenic than unleaded powered cars. They were warned before they started pushing it, yet like normal politicians they don't give a shit about facts, and those experts comments were just pushed to the side because they said so.  Personally, I don't give a shit who drives what if it makes you happy, yet the evidence is there if you choose to read it with open eyes and mind, that to create the batteries for EV's, the mining and production processes are probably just as bad as what emissions ICE cars produce, so are they REALLY that good for the environment before they even hit the road?  There are always companies developing alternative fuels to power ICE vehicles (Porsche is for a start), and I'm sure there are some that are ready to go now, but the government's will/have put the big kibosh on them for whatever bullshit reasons they can come up with.  Yeah I'd own an EV for work if they made a van, yet for the buy in price and resale value, I'd say they're far from being affordable for someone like me, as they will be worthless in just a few years time.  In a nutshell, no, we won't see ICE vehicles disappear. End of rant đ  Joz, tomo and 3legs 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalai Posted 23April, 2022 Report Share Posted 23April, 2022 What I expect will happen is people interested in these cars will diminish though and people who bought as an investment are going to get burnt. Those of us who bought because we wanted to drive these cars will continue to do so. The more people who jump on the EV train means more of the remaining petrol supplies for us! There will be a push to reduce ICE cars but won't be in my lifetime. LeeM, Joz, tomo and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joz Posted 23April, 2022 Author Report Share Posted 23April, 2022 I can see EVs as a small suburban runaround/ shopping trolly for the missus making some sense if you have off street parking to charge the thing over night. Then some hardcore wanker wanting to virtue signal. But Iâm a little afraid of what our govmints may do while trying to keep the hysterical left under control or pleased. Troubleshooter and tomo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 23April, 2022 Report Share Posted 23April, 2022 Only makes sense if renewables are the main electricity provider and there is an adequate charging network. Neither of these are realistic within the short term, governments have got a lot of work to do before they can mandate uptake of EVâs as a result. tomo, Fishcop and Troubleshooter 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smit2100 Posted 23April, 2022 Report Share Posted 23April, 2022 3 hours ago, Joz said: I can see EVs as a small suburban runaround/ shopping trolly for the missus making some sense if you have off street parking to charge the thing over night. Then some hardcore wanker wanting to virtue signal. But Iâm a little afraid of what our govmints may do while trying to keep the hysterical left under control or pleased. At least 15  years away but I reckon, electric will become the norm for Monday to Saturday and for some, on Sunday's,  need to allow for $2.50 equivalent in todays nominal cost for  a litre of synthetic bio Ron 98 fuel sold by the 2 stacked 44 gallon drums that will be special delivery by Elon's suburban 15tonne fully autonomous electric delivery trucks (2x44 drum comes with a special electric trolley to run your weekend hooning weapon of choice  around the extended block.  But need to redesign the garage to meet new Aust standards and need to store the 2 x44 gallon fuel drums on the opposite site of the garage to your tesla solar battery storage unit ( at least 6 meters away and mount a chemical dosing fire system above your fuel drums.  Drum system has a pump that pumps from lower to upper and you have a plastic version of the current petrol station hose / nozzle  that has an in line hose pump that sucks from your 44 gallon drum setup. Think home delivery of the old school slades softdrink in bottles and when empty, leave the bottles in the crate for picked up and dropped off with replacement bottles once the accounts been paid.  All accounts strictly payment  via e-lonpay.  The 44 gallon fuel recyclable fuel drums with have internal gps tracker for those that may knock off this liquid gold after home delivery. The gps tracker will link to high speed processing camera's on the road system that can zoom in on the electronic digital chipped numberplates on the truck and cops can track the truck within 20 secs of the automatimed voice recognition call going through Police HQ 000 number and their  algo's  Then there will be a grey army movement of old fellows rocking up to e-cars and coffee with multi decade old and last century tech body styles that have gone contemporary that have opted for the electric drivetrain and battery conversion kits to replace the ICE based drive train setup and braking system and retro fit over the top of the existing dashboard is a new 16K super oled 2mm thick dashboard display and CPU box the size of a fag packet . Brakes are still on the car but non functional and the CPU comes with you level of OEM piped exhaust notes feed into the cabin via 14 x bose bluetooth  earbud sized 3M sticky tacked speakers mounted where ever you want them But I expect to be in retirement in 15 years time, but still rowing gears and giving the customary hello rev in my ICE car at e-cars and coffee before finding a park along with the customary few revs before leaving. (For that, Manual Audi V10 with tweaked switchable valve exhaust system from 2 decades ago  would be the goto) However some greenie will probably rockup to ecars and coffee and pull out their foldable iPhone XXX and do a sniff test on my exhaust and send the db reading to the EPA with my rego on their apple I- smart goggles. Come Monday morning a fine at 10.00am on my Apple iPhone XXX for noise pollution.  The cost of not being able to quiet down that little hoon bastard inside from last century that can't seem to be shaken off  even in retirement in the current century. Troubleshooter, Joz, luzzo and 4 others 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 23April, 2022 Report Share Posted 23April, 2022  Jeez @smit2100, you had a really good long think about that didn't you? đđđ đ  With the Bluetooth operated coffee machine I was told about yesterday, I reckon your post isn't too far off what will actually happen in 15 years time đ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidmarks Posted 23April, 2022 Report Share Posted 23April, 2022 EVâs are already dirty.  In Australia, youâre charging the car from predominantly coal fired sources.  Renewable sources that dominate supply are a fair way off given the current spend on that infrastructure. As for the metals and other parts of a battery are mined, processed and then turned into a battery, Google it.  Pretty confronting.  And then thereâs the disposal once theyâve reached the end of their usable life.  Not sure how that will work but Iâm concerned that before a sustainable solution is found, it will be messy for a while. Donât get me wrong, EVâs are a great thing.  Fast, quiet, donâtâ stink up the joint.  Iâve driven a couple of Taycanâs and they got it very right. Hydrogen is also very much in play and I suspect will be a big part of the long term solution.  EV will, comparatively, be more short term. Thereâs no doubt that we have to clean the joint up ICE cars are much cleaner than they ever were and cars going electric is not the only answer to the problem we have.  Promoting EVâs is conspicuous and makes those that set policy look like theyâre active and care. But to me , itâs a bit like me telling my teen son to clean up his room and him just picking up his jocks, leaving the rest and me thinking, âgreat those stinking jocks are gone. Good outcomeâ.  We both feel like something was done but one is just going through the motions and the other saying thatâs fine Overall change will take time so those living their lives (careers?) on a 3-4 year election cycle will not be brave enough to to be forward looking and take the time to communicate and bring everyone who has a stake in the game along for the journey in a way that supports the outcome we all want - a clean place to live now and for our kids and theirs. And itâs all very well for us here.  We have the access to capital and social wealth to act.  But much (most?) of the world is not so fortunate.  Me driving an EV is not going to make much difference to the air quality in a âdeveloping economyâ so the big task is also there.  And they canât do it and wonât do it without a good alternative . And fair enough too.  And certainly not whilst weâre talking a big game but playing a small one. And selling them coal ⊠Iâm no angel here so on an objective level,  talking the talk.  I have more cars than I can drive at one time and most have a prodigious thirst.  MFI anyone? The answer?  NFI.  Itâs Sunday morning, Iâm one coffee down and pontificating.  Should get into politics!  Skidmo.  Sounds catchy.  I even  have an off the cuff comment ready to go for the Forth Column that will make it past my empathy coach - âI donât hold the fuel hose mateâ.  Election slogan?  âStop Cows Fartingâ. LeeM, Troubleshooter, Redracn and 5 others 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbee Posted 23April, 2022 Report Share Posted 23April, 2022 If youâre in the market for a new Porsche though, I think Germany is on a big green push... to their own detriment having shutdown many nuclear power and now more reliant on Russian gas/oil!! Oops. so look out new 911 buyers, ev is coming for you. But the old ac cars as has been said and petrol although will be dearer* will remain even as a hobbyist weekender... Â *my gf is in NZ this week, reporting 98 petrol is at $3/L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joz Posted 23April, 2022 Author Report Share Posted 23April, 2022 Lots of good points. I suppose Iâm living in hope that synthetic fuel capable of keeping our passions and treasures alive for many years or even decades alive. Hoping that ice vehicles keep being produced as they seem that they are now at their most economical and cleanest and with further development would keep getting better. We have all the infrastructure in place and ready to go if we could have synthetic fuel to fill them. Having fuels that could keep existing vehicles on the road but running even cleaner would be a massive win. Australia still has a massive  used car market for the greater part of the population that canât afford a new car let alone a new EV. Even when and if EVs start to dominate future sales , a great deal of the population still doesnât  have access to off street parking to even plug in at home. Think of inner urban apartment living not to mention those in the great high rise. Even if they had parking thatâs a lot of GPOs draining  the grid. Regardless of how many 44 gallon drums đđ€Šââïž you may have at home youâll only be able to do a circle trip if you can only refuel at home. No more long distance road trips that we may have been used too. Then what of all the Land cruiser towed caravans and of the beaten track adventures? Like many I do want cleaner air but I still feel that in the current guise of EVs weâre barking up the wrong tree.   LeeM and 3legs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalai Posted 24April, 2022 Report Share Posted 24April, 2022 34 minutes ago, Joz said: Regardless of how many 44 gallon drums đđ€Šââïž you may have at home youâll only be able to do a circle trip if you can only refuel at home. No more long distance road trips that we may have been used too. adventures? Need a Leyland P76. Fitting a 44 gallon drum in the boot was one of their selling points. đ  GTP911, 3legs, Joz and 2 others 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joz Posted 24April, 2022 Author Report Share Posted 24April, 2022 5 minutes ago, Dalai said: Need a Leyland P76. Fitting a 44 gallon drum in the boot was one their selling points. đ Â I remember it well, car of the year too! Mad Max figured it out. Dalai, LeeM, Yeatesy and 1 other 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 24April, 2022 Report Share Posted 24April, 2022  If any government was serious about saving the planet via EV's, then every politician would be driving (driven) around in them, or at the very least use hybrid powered vehicles, or travel on electrically powered trains, not travelling interstate and overseas on avgas powered jets, yet that's not convenient for them. They're hypocrites  Ever been to a major city where diesel powered buses every 2 minutes are emanating big puffs of black smoke that's highly carcinogenic emissions? You only have to be a km away to smell it, yet that's ok by government standards, as its bringing people into the cbd. They cut bus routes to the suburbs under the veil of "Must save the planet", yet it's only about saving their ever increasing maintenance costs, not about global warming at all. Again, if they were serious, they would change every government vehicle to being eco friendly, a.k.a EV or hybrid, but they won't.  Going solely EV will never, ever happen, as there is too much money to be lost by a lack of fuel tax, private businesses and f..k knows what else associated with ICE vehicles to allow that to happen. Can you imagine someone driving an EV towing a massive caravan or boat wanting to escape into the middle of the outback where there are no powered sites to charge the batteries? Nope, neither can I, so ICE is here to stay...until Russia and China decide to push the buttons to win their game of world domination, then we won't need either đ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishcop Posted 24April, 2022 Report Share Posted 24April, 2022 5 minutes ago, LeeM said:  Ever been to a major city where diesel powered buses every 2 minutes are emanating big puffs of black smoke that's highly carcinogenic emissions? You only have to be a km away to smell it, yet that's ok by government standards, as its bringing people into the cbd. They cut bus routes to the suburbs under the veil of "Must save the planet", yet it's only about saving their ever increasing maintenance costs, not about global warming at all. Again, if they were serious, they would change every government vehicle to being eco friendly, a.k.a EV or hybrid, but they won't. Must only be Radelaide  Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne are all running various non-diesel powertrains for all network buses. Natural gas and EV mostly - and yes it's a bit of virtue signalling but it is keeping the particulate count down measurably. My theory is that in the cities, Apple/Amazon/Tesla/Google will have an autonomous net work of self-driving vehicles that we 'subscribe' to like Netflix. You just hail a vehicle as needed through your phone/watch/implant. The vehicles will be rolling about 24/7 and using your own car will be a rarity. The cost of road trauma will be nearly zero as all the vehicles will be networked, you can get drunk and still get home, your grandkids will laugh at you when you talk about operating a dino-powered Porsche. hugh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 24April, 2022 Report Share Posted 24April, 2022 Most people forget the reason evs are cheaper to run is because electricity doesnât have fuel excise.  Tax electricity at the rate fuel is taxed and the cost advantages slip away pretty quickly.  It does present a big challenge for governments - less fuel less tax.  EVs will become a much larger percent of sales going forward as urban commuters discover the benefits.   petrol and diesel come from different parts of the underlying crude so both will get produced.  As already noted huge parts of the world donât have a choice so production will continue.  Same goes for planes and military equipment - until those are not fossil fuel powered fossil fuel production will continue.  It might get a bit harder to find if 50% of fuel stations disappear, but that would start in urban areas and work outward.    Weâll be driving petrol run cars for a long time.  People are still using hay powered transport and those were obsolete 100 years ago.  Itâs right that green control-loving politicians are the biggest threat with their ban-hammers. But then it will start as a Melbourne city-centre ban and take decades to work outward from there,if it ever does.  The London city ban has been in place for a long time and hasnât spread outside.  Fishcop 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 24April, 2022 Report Share Posted 24April, 2022 14 minutes ago, Fishcop said: Must only be Radelaide  Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne are all running various non-diesel powertrains for all network buses. Natural gas and EV mostly  I'm probably wrong then đ Probably should do some research before gobbing off I s'pose Fishcop 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3legs Posted 24April, 2022 Report Share Posted 24April, 2022 It could be worse. We could be made to ride scooters everywhere. Couldn't imagine a Hells Angel riding one of these ( although to be fair this looks like fun and I hate scooters. They are not real bikes and are a menace on the roads  ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishcop Posted 24April, 2022 Report Share Posted 24April, 2022 8 minutes ago, LeeM said:  I'm probably wrong then đ Probably should do some research before gobbing off I s'pose Don't worry I'm guilty too  There is truth in the buses being operated by smaller municipalities still being diesel - you can't expect those small rate payer bases to pay for for the EV stuff. NSW is trying to establish a genuine experimental "hydrogen hub" in the Hunter area (to soften the blow of coal losing its social licence) so it'll be interesting to see if it gets traction. Like others have mentioned, I think full EV remains the domain of smaller urban networks in major cities. Hydrogen powered vehicles (or hydro-electric hybrids) I think offer the best long-term solutions to fossil fuel with the ability for existing fuel stations across the country to transition - it'll still feel 'familiar' to motorists. And why (oh god why) didn't we continue with a proper rail network in a country this size!? Heavy transport remains one of the big pollution emitters in Australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troubleshooter Posted 24April, 2022 Report Share Posted 24April, 2022 And it's not only our usual fuel that increases.....  Australia's largest electric car charging network hikes prices - Drive Australiaâs largest electric car charging network hikes prices From next month, topping up with Chargefox's fastest chargers will be 50 per cent more expensive. 05:00, 21 April 2022 Chargefox currently operates approximately 1400 plugs across 100 sites between Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney, and Brisbane. LeeM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeatesy Posted 24April, 2022 Report Share Posted 24April, 2022 3 hours ago, Skidmarks said: EVâs are already dirty.  In Australia, youâre charging the car from predominantly coal fired sources.  Renewable sources that dominate supply are a fair way off given the current spend on that infrastructure. As for the metals and other parts of a battery are mined, processed and then turned into a battery, Google it.  Pretty confronting.  And then thereâs the disposal once theyâve reached the end of their usable life.  Not sure how that will work but Iâm concerned that before a sustainable solution is found, it will be messy for a while. Donât get me wrong, EVâs are a great thing.  Fast, quiet, donâtâ stink up the joint.  Iâve driven a couple of Taycanâs and they got it very right. Hydrogen is also very much in play and I suspect will be a big part of the long term solution.  EV will, comparatively, be more short term. Thereâs no doubt that we have to clean the joint up ICE cars are much cleaner than they ever were and cars going electric is not the only answer to the problem we have.  Promoting EVâs is conspicuous and makes those that set policy look like theyâre active and care. But to me , itâs a bit like me telling my teen son to clean up his room and him just picking up his jocks, leaving the rest and me thinking, âgreat those stinking jocks are gone. Good outcomeâ.  We both feel like something was done but one is just going through the motions and the other saying thatâs fine Overall change will take time so those living their lives (careers?) on a 3-4 year election cycle will not be brave enough to to be forward looking and take the time to communicate and bring everyone who has a stake in the game along for the journey in a way that supports the outcome we all want - a clean place to live now and for our kids and theirs. And itâs all very well for us here.  We have the access to capital and social wealth to act.  But much (most?) of the world is not so fortunate.  Me driving an EV is not going to make much difference to the air quality in a âdeveloping economyâ so the big task is also there.  And they canât do it and wonât do it without a good alternative . And fair enough too.  And certainly not whilst weâre talking a big game but playing a small one. And selling them coal ⊠Iâm no angel here so on an objective level,  talking the talk.  I have more cars than I can drive at one time and most have a prodigious thirst.  MFI anyone? The answer?  NFI.  Itâs Sunday morning, Iâm one coffee down and pontificating.  Should get into politics!  Skidmo.  Sounds catchy.  I even  have an off the cuff comment ready to go for the Forth Column that will make it past my empathy coach - âI donât hold the fuel hose mateâ.  Election slogan?  âStop Cows Fartingâ. 100% spot on, summed it up perfectly and Iâd vote for Skidmo Skidmarks and Joz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalai Posted 24April, 2022 Report Share Posted 24April, 2022 Seconded. Skidmo for PM! Skidmarks, Yeatesy and Joz 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicxu1 Posted 24April, 2022 Report Share Posted 24April, 2022 Can't see Shell, Mobil, BP, Exxon etc etc pulling up stumps on fuel production. What about the Arab oil producing nations, don't think I'll see them selling batteries. Dominic. Troubleshooter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 24April, 2022 Report Share Posted 24April, 2022  I read that recently too @Troubleshooter  Suck them in with low prices, then when you have a steady clientele, whack the prices up! Not much the consumer can do about it either. Joz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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