Redracn Posted 20March, 2018 Report Share Posted 20March, 2018 And so the carnage begins. Uber autonomous car kills pedestrian while operating in autonomous mode. https://www.9news.com.au/world/2018/03/20/05/16/uber-self-driving-car-kills-us-pedestrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian718 Posted 20March, 2018 Report Share Posted 20March, 2018 7 hours ago, Redracn said: And so the carnage begins. Uber autonomous car kills pedestrian while operating in autonomous mode. https://www.9news.com.au/world/2018/03/20/05/16/uber-self-driving-car-kills-us-pedestrian Yeah, it is going to be very interesting to see what the fallout from this is going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airhead Posted 20March, 2018 Report Share Posted 20March, 2018 We all knew it would happen at some point. The question really is 'How many deaths are acceptable for self driving cars?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian718 Posted 20March, 2018 Report Share Posted 20March, 2018 26 minutes ago, Airhead said: We all knew it would happen at some point. The question really is 'How many deaths are acceptable for self driving cars?' Yep. Obviously the number has to be less than the current human-driven car death rate. It was also obvious that the number could never reach zero. But where the acceptable value falls inbetween these two parameters is going to be an exercise in marketing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redracn Posted 20March, 2018 Report Share Posted 20March, 2018 This will cost Uber. Will get very interesting if programmers/execs do jail time for negligence. Without a government issued licence to kill do autonomous cars really have a future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 20March, 2018 Report Share Posted 20March, 2018 42 minutes ago, Redracn said: This will cost Uber. Will get very interesting if programmers/execs do jail time for negligence. Without a government issued licence to kill do autonomous cars really have a future? Yes it will cost Uber, and no they don't have a future unless they have a kerbed lane that they can't deviate from to cause accidents or kill people. Do people trust technology 101%? Is technology failsafe? When it comes down to the brass tax, humans invent, maintain and upgrade this stuff, so any accidents or deaths due to 'a technological anomoly' is the sole responsibility of the human that programmed it, and they should be held accountable. If you kill yourself or someone in your car by using the cruise control, is it the cars fault? Computers CANNOT be failsafe to ensure public safety EVER, just like humans, so why bother with it? Now someone is dead because some asshats want driverless cars. Bravo, that worked well didn't it? Idiots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsaps Posted 20March, 2018 Report Share Posted 20March, 2018 Turns out it may have been the pedestrians fault and would have been unavoidable even if it was a normal vehicle but the driverless car will always get the blame and be pre judged I guess so damage done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redracn Posted 20March, 2018 Report Share Posted 20March, 2018 1 hour ago, Gsaps said: Turns out it may have been the pedestrians fault and would have been unavoidable even if it was a normal vehicle but the driverless car will always get the blame and be pre judged I guess so damage done We are told the autonomous car can detect stationary and moving objects Identify them and predict any conflicts way in advance and take avoiding action. The car did not even brake and its human minder was probably texting or asleep. So how is the pedestrian to blame for a failure of the car to perform as advertised. Sounds like blame shifting to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsaps Posted 20March, 2018 Report Share Posted 20March, 2018 If someone steps out (from between 2 parked cars) right in front of a car doing 60kph is it possible to stop in time... its driverless not magic all I’m saying is until all the facts are known it’s everone’s knee-jerk reaction to blame the driverless vehicle (and I’m not saying the above facts are 100% correct) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troubleshooter Posted 20March, 2018 Report Share Posted 20March, 2018 It was a Volvo - you think it'd know better!! Driver who had multiple convictions etc so not the best character, (whatever that's got to do with it) of course couldn't get to the controls in time and it was instantaneous anyway coz the homeless cyclist loaded up with 4 shopping bags of posessions came straight out in front. Still, in my book, no place fro them on our roads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redracn Posted 21March, 2018 Report Share Posted 21March, 2018 3 hours ago, Gsaps said: If someone steps out (from between 2 parked cars) right in front of a car doing 60kph is it possible to stop in time... its driverless not magic all I’m saying is until all the facts are known it’s everone’s knee-jerk reaction to blame the driverless vehicle (and I’m not saying the above facts are 100% correct) Did the driverless vehicle stop and render assistance or was that the job of its minder. What is clear in this case is that it lacked the foresight to avoid or even negate this collision. So what were they saying about autonomous vehicles reducing the pedestrian toll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsaps Posted 21March, 2018 Report Share Posted 21March, 2018 All that’s really clear in this case is it shows peoples interpretations are tainted by their being for or against the whole idea of driverless vehicles. If you look at it objectively it neither proves nor disproves any claim of being safer than cars with drivers.. any more than a driverless car having stopped in time proves its safer than normal cars. i would assume there have been controlled studies to compare reaction times etc this was just a very unfortunate road traffic accident as they all are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 21March, 2018 Report Share Posted 21March, 2018 I need to read the facts somewhere other than channel nine trash reporting, but if she did step out in front of a moving vehicle, nothing that can be done. If it was avoidable (detectable and with enough time to swerve or stop) then that is another story. I'm sure there were other accidents even in phoenix on the same day with pedestrians and cyclists getting hit by cars. Computers are not magic. Still, the investigation needs to proceed carefully and publicly and learn lots from it. Deaths are inevitable just like the early days of aviation. As already said, a zero death toll is not possible. If it can be reduced below the current rate that is progress, even when someone gets splatted. There are enough cars around with emergency stop systems now that the numbers show they reduce the crash rate - the computers are always paying attention while the driver is not. Negligence doesn't come into it - drivers already are given a free pass on negligence unless they are really speeding, drunk or otherwise doing a serious violation. Look the wrong way at an intersection and run over a person and you're still not held negligent, and won't even have to pay for their injuries or death because the insurance on the car will handle it all. So the same things can be sorted out for autonomous vehicles - a registration fee would pay into an insurance pool which would pay out in case of injuries caused by normal operation. I think someone made mention of a licence to kill - interestingly enough the 'crime' of jaywalking was invented because motorists didn't like having to stop for pedestrians. A 'jay' was the word of the times for 'vagrant' or 'bum'. Imagine trying to pass a law preventing 'vagrantwalking' to allow adoption of autonomous cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINGY Posted 21March, 2018 Report Share Posted 21March, 2018 18 minutes ago, Gsaps said: this was just a very unfortunate road traffic accident as they all are There are reasons or an explanation for every incident, usually accidents are unexplainable, but i am sure there would have to be an explanation for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 21March, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 21March, 2018 Getting nervous? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5071359/Driverless-cars-real-risk-hacked.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 21March, 2018 Report Share Posted 21March, 2018 Daily Mail? Really? Listen to Clarkson on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANF Posted 21March, 2018 Report Share Posted 21March, 2018 21 minutes ago, Coastr said: I think someone made mention of a licence to kill - interestingly enough the 'crime' of jaywalking was invented because motorists didn't like having to stop for pedestrians. A 'jay' was the word of the times for 'vagrant' or 'bum'. Imagine trying to pass a law preventing 'vagrantwalking' to allow adoption of autonomous cars. Nah, you got that one wrong https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/why-is-it-called-jaywalking "For the first few years that it was in use jaywalker had little, if anything, to do with pedestrians crossing the street, and was used solely to scold those who lacked sidewalk etiquette." Anyone belittling the jaywalking law has obviously never spoken to anyone to have a pedestrian walk out in front if them. Unfortunately jaywalking laws are hardly ever, if at all, enforced in this country! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsaps Posted 21March, 2018 Report Share Posted 21March, 2018 Driverless transport has an air of inevitability to it, people will object but this sort of progress is unstoppable, may as well embrace it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 21March, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 21March, 2018 28 minutes ago, Gsaps said: this sort of progress is unstoppable, may as well embrace it Literally it would appear Lawyers are going to have a field day. Trust no-one , especially geeks. They never clean up messes. firstone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 21March, 2018 Report Share Posted 21March, 2018 The term for jaywalking is older than the law, for sure. Jaydrivers was once a term as well, for people who couldn't drive properly. The jaywalking laws were passed after pressure from motoring groups and a lot of effort was made to make the term derogatory. It's not universal though - from my understanding the UK has never had jaywalking laws which is why people tend to walk on the roads a bit. Australia has laws against it and I remember the police occasionally having a blitz in Brisbane from time to time. Ironically in Tempe there is a $118 fine for jaywalking, or so says wikipedia on the topic. But in many US states pedestrians have right of way at all times. In California it is hilarious to watch people slow down if you even veer slightly towards the road. A sign of times to come when adolescent pranks will involve jumping out in front of autonomous cars to make them emergency brake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvs11 Posted 21March, 2018 Report Share Posted 21March, 2018 3 hours ago, ANF said: Unfortunately jaywalking laws are hardly ever, if at all, enforced in this country! Melbourne CBD often has a blitz on pedestrians crossing illegally. I know of one instance where 15 y.o. kid was charged when he illegally crossed the S.Gippsland highway and got hit. Insurance company chased him for the damage to the car too! Even more strife from his old man when it was discovered he should have been at school at the time. Robot or human driven...there's not much you can do if a pedestrian steps out inside your braking distance. I still don't think fully autonomous cars will be on our roads for at least 10-15 years. There's just so many variables and legalities to overcome. PTINS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 21March, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 21March, 2018 2 hours ago, Coastr said: A sign of times to come when adolescent pranks will involve jumping out in front of autonomous cars to make them emergency brake. I was waiting for someone to say the obvious...some people are inclined to mischief. There will be a new Foxtel channel dedicated to autonomous car hilarious fails. You do not have to be this old bag to see this happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redracn Posted 21March, 2018 Report Share Posted 21March, 2018 You wont even need to jump out as the sensors will be easily spoofed into braking/swerving etc. Problem with autonomous cars is they can not make eye contact and have a good go at determining/anticipating the actions of those around it. They have so far to go it is really not funny. But lets not let reality get in the way of virtue signaling. Can fully autonomous cars be better than the best assisted human/machine cars? I doubt it as the human is in addition to all the same tech to avoid accidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 21March, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 21March, 2018 Hey , what about autonomous car racing as a couch potato sport? Any traction for that idea? Sounds geeky enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 21March, 2018 Report Share Posted 21March, 2018 28 minutes ago, tazzieman said: Hey , what about autonomous car racing as a couch potato sport? Any traction for that idea? Sounds geeky enough. Nearly there with those bloody Formula E things ? tazzieman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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