Over Charging !

[9fan]

 SUBJECT: FWD: FW: INTERESTING TAKE ON ELECTRIC CARS

> Independent Business Owner: PAT
>
> Interesting Take on Electric Cars
>
> From an American engineer...........
>
> AS AN ENGINEER, I LOVE THE ELECTRIC VEHICLE TECHNOLOGY.  HOWEVER, I
> HAVE BEEN TROUBLED FOR A LONG TIME BY THE FACT THAT THE ELECTRICAL
> ENERGY TO KEEP THE BATTERIES CHARGED HAS TO COME FROM THE GRID AND
> THAT MEANS MORE POWER GENERATION AND A HUGE INCREASE IN THE
> DISTRIBUTION INFRASTRUCTURE.  WHETHER GENERATED FROM COAL, GAS, OIL,
> WIND OR SUN, INSTALLED GENERATION CAPACITY IS LIMITED.  A FRIEND SENT
> ME THE FOLLOWING THAT SAYS IT VERY WELL.  YOU SHOULD ALL TAKE A LOOK
> AT THIS SHORT ARTICLE.
>
> IN CASE YOU WERE THINKING OF BUYING A HYBRID OR AN ELECTRIC CAR:
>
> Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile of
> those things has never been discussed. All you ever heard was the mpg
> in terms of gasoline, with NARY A MENTION OF THE COST OF ELECTRICITY
> TO RUN IT . This is the first article I've ever seen and tells the
> story pretty much as I expected it to.
>
> Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things
> yet they're being shoved down our throats. Glad somebody finally put
> ENGINEERING AND MATH to paper.
>
> At a neighborhood BBQ, I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro
> executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed,
> then got serious. If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he
> pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home
> charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp services. The average
> house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street
> (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be
> unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla, each. For
> even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be
> wildly over-loaded.
>
> This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our
> residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius
> elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged
> to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems
> with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but WE WILL ALSO HAVE
> TO RENOVATE OUR ENTIRE DELIVERY SYSTEM!  This latter "investment" will
> not be revealed until we're so far down this dead-end road that it
> will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a shrug.
>
> If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are
> eco-friendly, just read the following.  Note: If you ARE a green
> person, read it anyway. It's enlightening.
>
> Eric test drove the CHEVY VOLT at the invitation of General Motors and
> he writes, "For four days in a row, the FULLY CHARGED BATTERY LASTED
> ONLY 25 MILES BEFORE THE VOLT SWITCHED TO THE RESERVE GASOLINE
> ENGINE."  Eric calculated the car got 30 MPG   including the 25 miles
> it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank
> and the 16 kwh batteries, is approximately 270 miles.
>
> It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10
> HOURS TO CHARGE THE BATTERY and you have a total trip time of 14.5
> hours. In a typical road trip, your average speed (including charging
> time) would be 20 mph. According to General Motors, the Volt battery
> holds 16 kWh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a
> drained battery.
>
> THE COST FOR THE ELECTRICITY TO CHARGE THE VOLT IS NEVER MENTIONED, so
> I looked up what I pay for electricity. I pay approximately (it varies
> with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kWh.
>
> 16 kWh x $1.16 per kWh = $18.56 TO CHARGE THE BATTERY .
>
> $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 PER MILE TO OPERATE THE
> VOLT USING THE BATTERY.  Compare this to a similar size car with a
> gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg.  $3.19 per gallon divided by 32
> mpg = $0.10 PER MILE .
>
> The gasoline-powered car costs about $20,000 while the Volt costs
> $46,000-plus. So the American Government wants loyal Americans not to
> do the math, but simply pay three times as much for a car, that COSTS
> MORE THAN SEVEN TIMES AS MUCH TO RUN, and takes three times longer to
> drive across the country.
>
> HANS HERMANN ENGINEERING
>
> 3510 [1]  Bahia Blanca W 3g [1]
>
> Laguna Woods [1]
>
> CA 92637 [1]
 

Think I'll keep my 968 for a bit longer.

 

[OZ930]

This is doing the rounds as well

 

 Hi all,

 Please find below an analysis of the long term costs to purchase, run and maintain an ecar.

 This was carried out by an ex neighbour of ours who has moved to an “over 55’s complex”. (He was an engineer at BHP, Newcastle), and was contemplating purchasing a new Hyundai Kona Electric Car.

 If his numbers are correct, I won’t be converting to electric in a hurry ????

Enjoy the read.

 Regards.

Dennis...

 *****************************************************************************************

Hi Dennis,

 Robyn’s car is due for renewal this year. This is only driven by the fact that I always renew cars after 6 years – no other reason.

It was always my intention to buy her an al-electric car, and the most favoured was the Hyundai Kona Electric with its amazing 420km range. It was the right size and I suppose I was a bit of an eco-nut.

This month, Hyundai released the Kona Electric and its price, which a jaw dropping $65,400 Drive Away, against its petrol equivalent of $33,500 D/A. That is a differential of about $32k. Wow!

As Robyn’s car never leaves the city, it had always been my intention of only recharge the electric vehicle at home. I currently have 8 solar panels, but planned to increase that to a max of 24 with a bigger inverter. We would top the car up each day during daylight hours. It would not be zero cost, but fairly close to it. However, the additional panels etc would cost me an additional $4k, thereby we now have a total differential of $36k.

So, how much E10 fuel would $36k buy? Assume a mean cost over the years of $2.50 a litre (and I believe that that is conservative) we could buy 14,400 litres of fuel.

If the petrol Kona runs at 7L/100kms, that fuel would allow us to run the petrol car 205,000 kms before we broke even. Robyn on average travels 6,500 kms per year, so we would have to keep that electric car 31.5 years before we were to reap some financial benefit. Since we only keep cars for 6 years, this is starting to become a bit of nonsense.

An additional dampener of course is the replacement of the battery pack. Based on figures seen from the USA, lithium battery packs would need to be replaced every 7 to 8 years. That cost in AU$ will be in the order of $5,000. In 31.5 years the battery pack would need to be replaced 3 times. No quantitive figures are out on the motor itself, but I suspect that it would have to be replaced well before the 205,000 kms came up.

As you can see, I am rapidly losing interest in the whole scheme, and of course, the data you sent me has not helped.

Hydrogen cars did look attractive until I realised that it took a whole big bunch of power to break down water into its 2 elements. Sure, you get water coming out of the exhaust, but you pay in the order of 6 times the cost for the hydrogen when compared to fossil fuel because of the overall poor efficiency of the manufacturing process. Another issue that needs to be addressed is that a hydrogen leak always results in an explosion and not a fire. It is odourless so we really cannot determine if there is a leak or not by standard means.

I suggest that we will not see a total commitment to alternate fuels in our lifetime.

Barry Collin

 

[ANF]

I have been asking these questions for a while now....

There is also the energy and resources needed to construct the batteries!

All of this is over looked by our Grubments rush to get us all to convert.....

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-21/new-study-shocks-electric-cars-considerably-worse-climate-diesel-cars?fbclid=IwAR1D_ckW6jjJSuY2CaLlwMAxwk25otsT3_jZvZlaKPw_3b36sVD7RbcB3EU

Overall we are much better off just keeping what we have and running it longer, imagine the saving in resources…..

[Philbee]

I’ve been sceptical of the real cost of battery cars for awhile so interesting read to see some details....

I’m met an Aussie at the Shanghai motor show a week ago and he was flogging hydrogen fuel cell cars there and plans to bring them here next year some time (he said). In China they’re all electric/hybrid presently. Will try and find his details....

[JV911]

So the ALP is stating a target of 50% for electric cars by 2030. Where the F are people going to charge them? Fair enough if you have a garage and can leave the car to charge overnight, but a % of cars (probably the majority) are parked on the street. The logistics alone is staggering.

[ANF]

How come mugs like us can see gaping holes in going full scale EV, but our so called "leaders" cannot..... hmmmm 🤨

[Zelrik911]

I reckon these figures for 'having' a full electric car are why all the Tesla owners around here have leased them. I havent heard of anybody who has outright bought one new and paid the full whack. Next door guy is now driving an odd looking BMW electric, he has lots of solar panels on his roof but he & his car are at work when his solar system is charging!.

Buying a hybrid jap car is as far as I would dare go, if I caved into wifeys current eco craze, but then it would have to be charged in the garage and my toys would have to live outside - hmmmmm that aint gunna happen!

[sleazius]

There is a significant amount of BS in that first email - and I'm not a fan of electric cars, far from it.

One thing that is absolutely true, there is no possible way we can charge all these cars with our current grid. Given that network upgrades are the number one cost when it comes to increasing prices, guess what is going to happen to the price of electricity.

[tazzieman]

5 hours ago, ANF said:

How come mugs like us can see gaping holes in going full scale EV, but our so called "leaders" cannot..... hmmmm 🤨

...because intelligence is not a prerequisite for entry into the hallowed halls of power.

What about an L and P plate system for pollies? A gaffe , and they lose their licence to govern.
Tribunal of ordinary taxpayers...

[GC9911]

13 minutes ago, tazzieman said:

...because intelligence is not a prerequisite for entry into the hallowed halls of power.

What about an L and P plate system for pollies? A gaffe , and they lose their licence to govern.
Tribunal of ordinary taxpayers...

Geez, going to be an empty house under those guidelines!!!!

[Airhead]

All Porsches (except the 911) will be electric by 2025 apparently.

[tazzieman]

3 hours ago, GC9911 said:

Geez, going to be an empty house under those guidelines!!!!

No , they just need to sit and pass a grade 6 English comprehension and maths test before nominating. 
And be taught that winning an argument is like dividing 1 by zero. Infinitely stupid and not possible.

[OZ930]

8 hours ago, tazzieman said:

No , they just need to sit and pass a grade 6 English comprehension and maths test before nominating. 
And be taught that winning an argument is like dividing 1 by zero. Infinitely stupid and not possible.

they couldn't stay within the guidelines of a colouring book !

[tazzieman]

36 minutes ago, OZ930 said:

they couldn't stay within the guidelines of a colouring book !

I've tried to explain that to our Exalted Leaders , but I couldn't find my crayons.

[OZ930]

32 minutes ago, tazzieman said:

I've tried to explain that to our Exalted Leaders , but I couldn't find my crayons.

Too many colours for them to choose from.  

Choose red you get red,

Green you get red,

Blue you get a rainbow,

Yellow you get blue,

but if Blue and Yellow mix together you will get green ... then we get red.

So it doesn't matter what you pick you get red

 

[tazzieman]

3 hours ago, OZ930 said:

Too many colours for them to choose from.  

Choose red you get red,

Green you get red,

Blue you get a rainbow,

Yellow you get blue,

but if Blue and Yellow mix together you will get green ... then we get red.

So it doesn't matter what you pick you get red

 

Mix them all you get the colour of shite!
Somewhat ironic they inhabit a chamber.

[OZ930]

2 hours ago, tazzieman said:

Mix them all you get the colour of shite!
Somewhat ironic they inhabit a chamber.

If only we could flush it.

[tazzieman]

2 hours ago, OZ930 said:

If only we could flush it.

A double dissolution , plus a brand new chamber!

[Howe]

The interesting thing w.r.t .range quoted on the pure electric vehicles is not one manufacturer EVER states the range up gradients. So we all know that the greatest CONTINUOUS  FORCE required is up the incline. Not the acceleration, not the drag, not the rolling resistance, these are pittance compared to the resolved slope force. So the range could halve if you have a mountain range to head up, range anxiety will become real serious. I will wait with interest and not sell the flat 6 yet.

[Redracn]

43 minutes ago, Howe said:

The interesting thing w.r.t .range quoted on the pure electric vehicles is not one manufacturer EVER states the range up gradients. So we all know that the greatest CONTINUOUS  FORCE required is up the incline. Not the acceleration, not the drag, not the rolling resistance, these are pittance compared to the resolved slope force. So the range could halve if you have a mountain range to head up, range anxiety will become real serious. I will wait with interest and not sell the flat 6 yet.

You have to laugh at anyone who quotes up to numbers as they are never achieved in the real world. Add in air con or heating or battery ageing or a head wind or cold conditions that dramatically reduce battery capacity. The roads will littered with abandoned  EV’s.

The next big thing will be  diesel generators mounted on utes or trailers coming to the aid of the stranded EV suckers.

[DJM]

You lot sound like all the New Yorkers who said they’d never give up their horse for a car in early 1900s.  Any horses in New York now?  Whether you like them or not EV are inevitable.

[Coastr]

The first email is full of BS.  It’s obviously from the us as it talks about the volt - nobody pays 1.12 kWh.  More like 20-40c.

i know several people with Teslas (s,x and 3) and they all love them and have had zero problems.  They dont even charge them every night because mostly the charge lasts a week of normal driving.  All paid extra to get the charger in house.  The supercharger network in the US makes it easy to get between cities without an issue.  Even small towns usually have one tucked away, often in hotel chain car parks.

they are a luxury item that make no sense like a Porsche but you do save on running costs - no question.

yes if everyone had one it would require upgrades to transmission lines but it’s really no different to everyone basically having air con on their house now, which had required upgrades to handle the draw.   Upgrading the network is constantly ongoing anyway as the thing is falling apart.

i don’t agree with the subsidies being handed out and it’s inevitable that electricity will be taxed even higher to make  up for falling fuel tax and higher transmission costs.  I absolutely despise what politicians have done to Australias energy supply.  Electric cars are not a net environmental saviour but they do make urban environments better with less noise and pollution.

Ive never been mistaken for a greenie in my life - the tech is interesting and works, and they are a hoot to drive.  I wouldnt hate on them just to avoid being lumped in with ecomentalists.