What 911 to buy with a $180k-$200k budget

[911]

Hi all,

a good friend of mine has just offloaded his R34 GTR V-Spec and is looking to get into a 911. His R34 GTR was making around 450rwkw and he's not expecting anything similar with the 911 obviously.

We've spent the best part of the last few months test driving different variants and he's having a bit of trouble deciding and to be honest I'm not really sure what I'd go with being in his position at the moment with prices being the way they are. So I thought I'd see what everyone else thinks.

He's narrowed it down to 3 models a 964 C2 - UK variant (Aussie ones are over budget), 996 GT3 CS and a 911 3.2 G50. He might also look at an earlier 3.2, the one we test drove had a box that was rebuilt about 15 years ago, so probably wasn't the best thing to jump into after driving my G50 model.

Realistically he will not be doing any track days, it will be used as a weekend only car, no daily commuting to work, or anything like that, so he isn't too worried about suspension being too stiff, or if the cars too loud etc, as it's only going to be a Sunday driver to grab a coffee and the odd run up the Black Spur, or whatnot.

Serviceability and parts are another thing he is worried about, he doesn't want to be forking out big money for every service. I know my 3.2 isn't too bad with costs, but I couldn't really give him any feedback on the others.

[Peter John]

996 GT3. They do everything better. Personally wouldn’t touch a UK car. 

[Joz]

996 GT3!

[AndrewM]

If he is not planning on doing track days, and will really only be doing road driving, then he may actually prefer something like a 996C2 if you want that old school feeling and save some money, or even a 991 if he wants something more up-to-date. However the 996 GT3 is more likely to hold its value.

[Bugs77]

How about a 3.0lt Hot rod with 250hp (flywheel), no mechanical expense as all is new or in top condition, modern electric AC and LED lights all round to take the edge off classic woes and perfect for the uses outlined, and have some change left over from that budget.

 

[spiller]

I should think the aircooled stuff won’t satisfy if coming from a big power skyline. 996 GT3 ticks all the boxes. Modernish, still fast, reliable and won’t cost an arm and leg to keep on the road provided you buy a good example. 

[LeeM]

 GT3 👍

[tomk86]

I would personally avoid a UK import 964, even local cars are prone to rust. 
 

What about a 997.1 Turbo? 

[911]

Thanks everyone. 

The UK 964 we looked at doesn't have any rust, it was imported into Australia mid 90s as a personal import. Have had it checked thoroughly on a hoist, so rust isn't a concern. It is not the late model of its a 90' model and has had the engine rebuilt about 9 years ago (30kms) 

The 3.2 is a G50 Aussie car in Venetian blue, which suits the car really well and is very tidy aswell. 

The 996 GT3 seems to be the pick of the bunch on paper and it definately is miles ahead in terms of driving experience. He says it lacks the character of the earlier stuff and it feels like a waste for what he will use it for, because you can't really push the car to the limits without tracking it. 

So that's where he's at really. Going back to see the 964 with him this weekend though, so let's see. 

1 hour ago, spiller said:

I should think the aircooled stuff won’t satisfy if coming from a big power skyline. 996 GT3 ticks all the boxes. Modernish, still fast, reliable and won’t cost an arm and leg to keep on the road provided you buy a good example. 

GTR wasn't the most usable with the power it had. I think he's looking for more light weight, good handling drivers cars. 

[hugh]

You can enjoy a 996 GT3 on the road, no issues there. 

[flamingporsche]

996 or 997 Turbos should definitely be on the radar. 

[sjm]

Blue 3.2 sounds really nice!

[WOKA]

Don't buy a .6 GT3 - It makes them less available for those that KNOW they want one.!

[tomk86]

1 hour ago, flamingporsche said:

996 or 997 Turbos should definitely be on the radar. 

Agree, that speed yellow one on carsales for $150k would have been a perfect replacement.  

[Bugs77]

Seriously a GT3 is for the track to get the most from it, can't do that on the road in any way legally.
I built a slightly restomod SC hotrod and can safely say it's one of the ultimate drivers car for road use, coffee and cars etc, have had 981 Cayman S manual which was also in the usable drivers car corner but even that was pushing the limit when pressed to get what we want. I also have a 997.1 Turbo auto with ceramics,  insane to point, press and cover distances in and relaxing to head into town and get stuck in traffic with, almost has a calming effect on me, it doesn't make me drive hard.  In comparison the SC is far more involving to drive, lighter weight with 250hp and has a soundtrack second to none and can have 80-90% of it's performance without being too far outside the law, it takes you by the balls.

The SC is a new build and factory fresh with modern AC etc so only needs regular servicing, have been right through it. The 997 Turbo is low KM collector grade so also only needs regular servicing, both are in said budget but I think the SC fits the requirements. For me one of them must go, If I had a preference the SC should stay. 

[davidtran]

I had similar choices and went for 911 3.2. 

Timeless. For me 996 GT3 does not look good. As good as the car is and everyone been telling me to buy one for so many years. So rare, so cheap so underrated and they will boom. That was started 8 years ago. Then you see on collecting cars mint silver example can't sell for $150k and 911 3.2 and 964 $200k and much more readily available. 

I think there great to drives, but why they still not had they're big jump if they're so rare and so great? 

I think they just don't look good and people aren't as into them as the older stuff. The interior is dated and the exterior isn't too amazing when looking at 997 GT3. 

Who can say 996 gt3 look better than 997 GT3? That's why 996 150k and 997 250-300k 

[Bugs77]

And then there's the coffee and cars thing, everyone loves a real motor.

[davidtran]

You know if you looks at GT3 996 thread. In 2015 clean GT3 like the silver one that hit 150k on collecting cars was on carsales for $110k-$120k.

In 2015 clean 911 3.2 G50 was $50k tops. 

I'm not sure for 964. 

That's best case 36% gain for 996 GT3, say 40% round up in 9 years. 

For 911 3.2 G50, the blue one on carsales was maybe sold $170kish lowest. I think it was listed for $185k. Take 15k off. Let's call it even $160k sale price. 

That's 320% for car that is not as "rare" you know. I'm just thinking they are good car to drive, but if they were a good car to own they would closer to 997 money and not closer to what they sell for 9 years ago. 

I drive one and loved it before I bought 911 3.2, but they just aren't an attractive car inside and out. That being said though. I sell my car straight away for a 996 GT3 RS.

Just my opinions. I had same decisions. I feel like 964 has more issues that can happen with the 3.6 and alot more electronics, but as time gone on maybe that's fixed and also because of how rare 964 is. Parts premium was so much for OEM Porsche every time I bought parts they were more than 3.2. Very annoying 

 

Bottom line for me is I feels like I had to really convince myself to buy 996 GT3. Everything about the car was good on paper, but why do I have to convince myself. Maybe no character like it was said above. I know modern 911 built quality drop too after 964 I think. Alot of plastic. 

[davidtran]

14 minutes ago, mrar said:

The 996gt3 did have a jump, they have come back again.

Can't sell for $150k, what does that mean (or has one sold just now for $150k according to your last sentence)?

You got to pay to play in this market atm if you want to buy one would be my 5cents worth, looks like a buck fiddy ain't going to cut it with that car.

Stump up the cash the owner will accept or buy some other car.

I can say, "the 996 gt3 looks better than a 997Gt3 and has plenty of character 😛".

 

 

Sorry sometimes my English isn't the best. I'm just talking with where the market is sitting at the moments with my numbers. 

They are on collecting cars and not selling. Maybe $160k top for the silver one and that's what I base my numbers on? I think they are great car! I really wanted myself to want one, but couldn't love them. I'd have a 997 GT3, but too much money. 

I think if they were as good as everyone says they would be alot more money, because at the moment they are very cheap for what they are, but don't seem to be moving too fat up. 

 

[Bugs77]

I have gone modern a couple of times now and have been struck by the difference in build type, I won't say quality, between air cooled cars and later water cooled. The attraction of the more hand-built aircooled cars is very hard to ignore, it will always be more jewel-like compared to what had to be done later and is something you can feel and that has much to do with on going values as it can't be repeated. Personal taste is the other variable, is the look, noise and feel of something more important than the techno fest, for me I think I'm way more comfortable with a properly sorted older car I can look after than a modern one, I can see all the bits on the SC (many of them shiney) and that gives great pleasure, driving is sharp, responsive with feel and noise to almost overload, and that's just going down to the bottle shop. I think it's possibly those quality's that the topic of this thread is after.

An older GT3 could fit this bill but not so sure.

[LeeM]

 There's been so many owners I've spoken to and read about over the years that wish they'd never sold their air cooleds for more modern 996 and 997's including GT3's.

 They also say the 'modern' stuff are great cars, but they're just boring because they do everything so well, whereas anyone who has driven an air cooled 'spiritedly' will probably agree that there really isn't another car that possesses what an old 911 does. You drive one of these old bangers hard, and you know damn well you've had a helluva workout...and probably scared the shit out of yourself on occasion. I know I have! 🙄

 A more modern car like a 996 GT3 will better handling, power yadda yadda..., yet if they're anything to drive like a nicely sorted 996, then they're probably akin to a mental and very well sorted air cooled, as the old 911 architecture and DNA is still there, but they just don't have...'It' as far as I'm concerned.

 @911 Seeing as your mate has had a weapon of a car with the GTR and reading your other post, I will change my answer to get him into an air cooled. I've only driven a 450+hp turbo 964 (which was ridiculously unnecessary and scary fast) so I can't comment on what a standard one is like, yet as a weekender he'll use now n then, he'll love an air cooled

[911]

14 minutes ago, LeeM said:

 There's been so many owners I've spoken to and read about over the years that wish they'd never sold their air cooleds for more modern 996 and 997's including GT3's.

 They also say the 'modern' stuff are great cars, but they're just boring because they do everything so well, whereas anyone who has driven an air cooled 'spiritedly' will probably agree that there really isn't another car that possesses what an old 911 does. You drive one of these old bangers hard, and you know damn well you've had a helluva workout...and probably scared the shit out of yourself on occasion. I know I have! 🙄

 A more modern car like a 996 GT3 will better handling, power yadda yadda..., yet if they're anything to drive like a nicely sorted 996, then they're probably akin to a mental and very well sorted air cooled, as the old 911 architecture and DNA is still there, but they just don't have...'It' as far as I'm concerned.

 @911 Seeing as your mate has had a weapon of a car with the GTR and reading your other post, I will change my answer to get him into an air cooled. I've only driven a 450+hp turbo 964 (which was ridiculously unnecessary and scary fast) so I can't comment on what a standard one is like, yet as a weekender he'll use now n then, he'll love an air cooled

I think you perfectly summed up the way I feel! David said the same thing in other words. I'm trying not to be biased owning a 3.2, because I don't want to be held liable later on if he regrets the 996, but it seems most of us reading above have had to decide between 996 GT3 and aircooled and have gone aircooled. 

Makes me think the 996 GT3 is like a one night stand after a few too many drinks, you'd happily spend a night with her, but you'd be out of there the next day for a home cooked meal from your air cooled car 😂

[Bugs77]

53 minutes ago, mrar said:

Maybe follow up on the 964 if the gt3 is too much of an issue.

I had a conversation on Australia day with a guy who has plenty of great porsche cars in his custodianship.

He told me his two favourite cars are his 964rs and the mk1 gt3 (and if he was to have to have only one out of a big bunch, the 996 was it).

Was that based on use on the road or track?

[911]

25 minutes ago, mrar said:

I'd have to ask about the 964rs, but I know the gt3 has been well used on track. 

He's going to drive it down here once he gets the car back from having it resprayed. 

Hopefully get both our gt cars together for run.

 

 

 

GT3 on the track is absolutely no questions the pick of the 3. Thing is there will be 0 track time with this car. I think he's leaning towards the 964. The only reason I think he hasn't pulled the trigger is because it's silver. See how we go this weekend though. 

[Peter John]

So much 996 hate- I love it. I love it when folks pay too much for older cars that don’t do things as well as newer- cheaper for those that are in the know. 
 

Without getting into a game of chicken with a hair-cooled and a 996 we have to always remember there really isn’t a bad model, and they got better as they went. 
 

Some fall into the trap of paying high because the previous guy did, some are also so tight they say they are holding out, and often never get to buy as they are still holding out for the market to crap itself.
 

Your vintage (birth year) and interest will determine your taste most often. I didn’t see hair-cooled driving around back when I was younger, I saw 996’s so that’s my nostalgia. Just like traditional aussies (bogans) paying drug money for poor handling passenger cars (holdens) it’s the nostalgia that inflates the price. 
 

If you want bragging rights and love to pose and talk values at your local cars and lattes maybe jump on the band wagon. We all have a vision so I say go with that. But if you are Porsche Curious only way you can really do it is buy it and use it for 6 months and see how you feel. 
 

They’re all great.