Whats for sale (in Australia ) and interesting Thread

[hugh]

Curious how quick it happens on cars like this...I saw it at 8:35am...I were about to call, stalled when I saw half the roof missing...then remembered my brother in law has a 69 shell in a paddock with roof intact...figured it be gone by now...looked back at the listing..."Not Available" 

What time did you speak to her? Bet granny would be stoked with the extra $$$!

spoke with her at around 9:30, she called me around 1 to confirm the car had been sold. Seems two guys got there and had a bit of a bidding war. 

[Rob]

Look what's back! - one of the 968 Turbo S clones that were on the market a year or so ago.  Now with full leather interior, but roll cage available on request.  Only $119K...

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/_/SSE-AD-2784279?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert;PCAA&sdmvc=1&utm_campaign=bau&utm_medium=email&utm_source=transact&utm_content=autoalert&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert

[turboT]

Agree ...... not the classiest place ...... but

Ebay and Gumtree have a huge reach (both national and international) ...... and it only takes one .....

for second hand Utes, dishwashers and the odd mistreated 911. This car is being marketed by a complete Dick with no idea. 

[tazzieman]

for second hand Utes, dishwashers and the odd mistreated 911. This car is being marketed by a complete Dick with no idea. 

It's the best place to locate a landshark. There really is nothing like a V8. Real man's car 

[turboT]

^^^now there's a collector that knows how to do it. go out and buy a bunnings store to house your collection. i feel inadequate.

I believe MASTERS might have a few sites available...

[Dreamr]

for second hand Utes, dishwashers and the odd mistreated 911. This car is being marketed by a complete Dick with no idea. 

Call me a dick ..... but I would do the same thing. Free advertising wherever I could.

Just for the record .... That "dick .... with no idea" needs a Bunnings warehouse to store his collection ..... I'd be happy to take his title .....

[tazzieman]

Just for the record .... That "dick .... with no idea" needs a Bunnings warehouse to store his collection ..... I'd be happy to take his title .....

Tools for real men

[JLD]

Tools for real men

...or tools for tools

[sandy468]

for second hand Utes, dishwashers and the odd mistreated 911. This car is being marketed by a complete Dick with no idea. 

The dick has enough idea to own a $1,000,000.00 to $2,000,000.00 car! Wish I had his no ideas!!

[tazzieman]

...or tools for tools

Good old English tools , tough as nails (not the imported ones) , they will be there for your grandkids. 

[Blue964]

The dick has enough idea to own a $1,000,000.00 to $2,000,000.00 car! Wish I had his no ideas!!

my wife is forever calling me a dick so now i have the proof i'm not. so next time she calls me a dick i'm simply going to tell her i'm not because i don't own a bunnings warehouse full of exotic cars. i think that will clear things up for her

Edited 28January, 2016 by Blue964

[Dreamr]

Oh ..... He also has us talking about him, his cars and his museum on an open forum on the internet .....

Clearly .... no idea .....

[JLD]

But if 'him'is a mining politician I won't be visiting the former Bunnings...

[GUT]

http://www.brw.com.au/p/lists/rich-200/2015/used_denny_salesman_tony_fortune_XDWoyxIZA3Qv3pVxYjUppI

[symsy]

who the fuck sells a $2,000,000 car on Gum tree??

all class

Im thinking of Putting My DB5 on there ..big audience 

Along with my set of spanners ...

[GUT]

It's called cheap viral advertising , and you were drawn in hook line & sinker 

Just think how many forums that is on right now...

Why go to a wallet-raping dealer?

He definitely knows what he's doing.

I think he is the wallet-raping dealer...

“We’ve got an algorithm-based program where we see the arbitrage pricing of cars up to five years old,” says Denny. “We source these cars in Europe and other countries that we are retailing in, and then sell them to dealers in those countries. It is a commodity and we are doing the arbitrage. We are downloading data every five minutes across many websites. As soon as these cars appear on the market we analyse it very quickly. Information is then given to the call centre who call or email the [sellers]. We have 50 mobile buyers spread around the country and we can take that car out of the market within one hour.”

http://www.brw.com.au/p/lists/rich-200/2015/used_denny_salesman_tony_fortune_XDWoyxIZA3Qv3pVxYjUppI

[LeeM]

Made me think of this: https://www.facebook.com/Thingsboganssell/?fref=photo

Sad and funny at the same time.

Similar to a Facebook page I often have a look at for a bloody good laugh. 'TRADE*LAIDE

Some crazy shit gets posted on there. One I distinctly remember was 'Wanted to trade. 3/4 of a bottle of red hair dye for some Avocado's, nuts, seeds etc' Legit too! 

 

 How many Porsche people look at Gumtree everyday? Quite a few I imagine. I should drop the 912 on there to see what bites I get at 6am!

[smit2100]

 

 

I wonder what happens to the 997tt in the midst of all this? If 996's are occupying the mid 100's, with gen 1 997's only 10-15% more, do they start to climb in price to? It's almost as if anything of the slightest merrit now has a base price of $100k upwards. It really is an amazing time to be buying second hand p-cars. Depreciation is dead people!

 

+1 to Steve's comment .  Yes 996tt advertised prices have gone mad.

I have stayed silent to date as a potential buyer of a 996tt on this thread generally having been monitoring 996 tt prices / advertised examples for 12 to 18 months.  Monitoring has turned into active pursuit since June15  last year.   So yes, off the bat,  I am obviously biased as a potential buyer and that needs to be considered in the following rant having considered packing up my bat and ball and playing back at my old ground (ala audi)

What evidence is their to suggest these 996tt's manual tt's are changing hands via actual eft transactions at these mad world advertised prices for you to arrive at 996's are occupying mid 100's  (Opps I forgot, no doubt those owners who aren't interested in converting dollars into cash when the need arises had already bumped up their net  assets on paper prior to advertising and or / may  have to fesh up and say to their ministers of finance,  its taking longer than I thought to sell and that O/S holiday I banked on paying for by the profit the 996tt sale may need to be put on the back burner)

Since July 2015 (when normal world not gone mad advertised prices was the norm, I don't recall seeing any new examples being advertised until  October15 .  Since then I can only recall seeing 3 and a half manual tt cars move off car sales if I use that as a reference point based on commentary below

0.5 example = the silver one referenced. Granted, very nice example and ticked all my boxes.    Its 0.5 of a sale, because I rang the owner, after 1 photo put up in car sales, I got in contact after a lot of messages left over the course of a day, and in the back of my mind my approach to go into the call was to say, like you car, ask a few standard questions and end the call with I  understand its just been advertised, and I long shot I know but , if you ever consider dropping the price and you would be willing to come down to circa to 100k (completely align with Steve's thinking here), let me know.  So I got though and  asked about the car etc and then asked how did you set your price.  Automatically the one owner of the car goes into the marketing spiel of how they are collectors, making reference to currrent advertised prices for watercooled, 996gt2 marks, the modified 996 tt in Perth advertised in Perth.  Ok,  so I am about to ask if the owner would onsider a drop the price, instead of the stock answer I just advertised it at that price, so I'm not prepared to move (perhaps 1 or 2k only),  I  get,   I have at least 10 messages I haven't answered yet regarding the car and when the add it goes up with the rest of the pictures on car sales next week, I think I am going to increase the price based on all this interest. So their goes my strategy along with the end of the call.  So  true to his word, I recall the price when the pics were  posted up a few days later and it sits at circa 137,500 .  So a week or so later, get an alert saying sold.  I thought $%^ me, someone was desparate / or has money to spend and paid one heck of premium for that (like these ridiculous advertised prices on all the 996 cabs / 996 cab s  that have not moved for months and months.  That black turbo s advertised at 137,500 the month before with 22,000 ( pretty good times at queensland raceway for a stocky) was a bargin. 

However I'll chalk that  up to half a sale as about the same time it went off car sales, a red one in Adelaide with a kit comes up on a 144,500.  Got a email alert a week or two later on a new  996tt 2003 silver / black combo and super keen to see the advertised price.  Disappointed to say the least and another  $%^ me, same car, same contact, and not to be outdone, bit of my cars better than yours so I'll raise your 144,500 and this time I whack another 10k and shall we go at  147,500. Since then it had been at 144,000,( below the 144,500 for the red one), back to 147,500 after the red one was taken off / sold?? and today I get a price alert say down to  139,500.   Welcome to the Porsche 996 tt la la land   

That all said, if that price alert had been circa 100,000 , I would of been on the phone, itching at the bit to hit the send button with an eft deposit and requesting it be dropped off for a PPI the next day.

2nd Car - 996tt Redish one in Adelaide  (not your run of the mill stock example, colour wise)  Taken off a couple of weeks ago (not what I would say was a quick  sale. , Was not sold straight away, but appears to have been.  At what  price, Call me a sceptic but not seeing 144,500????  Representative of the general 996tt's that come up =defintely not

3rd Car  Silver / black combo in Tassie, Initially advertised just under 130k, taken off car sales in about a week.  I would rate this as a genuine sale.  I didn't enquire because year of the  year, (after a post 2002 year build) . At guess I would say owner would advertised circa high 120's and would have taken circa 100k and happy with that

4th  Yellow 996tt at a dealer,   Put on at circa135ish, as I recall, then disappeared pretty quickly

I believe that these crazy world 996tt  advertised prices that have come about since Oct15 are driven by three outliers in chronological order

1) The 125k 996 tt heavily modified 996 tt has sat on car sales for probably over  a year   (was at 125k, down to 110k when everything was selling sub 90k , back to 125 when it was the last one that didn't sell (cabs  excluded) .  Any new example appears to use that as a sign post  / benchmark notwithstanding it a 40k rebuild per the add and 700hp pls (should of sold I would at thought at 110 or 125k given the mods. 

2) Word gets out / rumour has it theres a collector / buyer O/S who says I  cant land a GT2 here in the UK , and not fussed its AUD delivered, runs the  numbers and says whats the chance of selling at this price (probably a x2 banger on purchase price for the owner).  Sets an expectation, some lucky bugger says I'll sell circa 400k, I can get a 996gt3 (track)and 997.2tt (daily) for that  and still bank some cash and watch these go up at some point in time (would be sitting on another x 0.5 banger if brought a 996 gt3  at the time they  sold the gt2 based on prices  today.   But a a 996tt is not 996gt2 ot 996gt3

3)The silver one referenced in Steve's post is probabaly thinking the second time around , thinking one owner,  55,xxx km,  now a collectors and onlyheading up , serviced every 5k example, I raise it it 2.5k (opps  12,5k)over that heavily modified one and 3k over the red one.  And then for the onslaught, within days a couple of owners with cars they have held for 6 months to 12 months are saying,,I enjoy the car on the weekends, but if I can advertise  somewhere with a 13x that none is  at, I'll  may be able to get a min 40% plus percent return on a flip.  I'LL  hold out and I am in no rush to sell.  Then a couple more come on, all just under 130k.

Now just an opposite outlier, which is good for me if I ever do picked up one in a normal world scenario pricing, for tax purposes  I planned on doing a sale and lease back via novated lease for a 2003 / 2004 model . There are obviously benefits to getting the lowest vehicle value possible for leasing purposes eg  minimise lease interest payments, fbt and luxury car tax etc.  June last year I couldn't move the lease companies valuations from 70k beiing the the absolute lowest valuation they could  do to set the lease at for any 996tt an the later the year up was the value . Step forward to this year, 62,500, is what they offered me with no pushing

Also tried to get an insurance  quote for a 996tt very recently for say 95k agreed market, response was we will only insure at purchase price, unless you have an indepentant party verify the value.  So what is market value - Car sales current advertised price at Circa 130k  (lease company appears  62.5k at the low end (under glaases / redbook lowest trade in price)

In relation to 997.1 tt' manual 's lets talk actual sales.  Since Oct15 as I see it,  One red wrapped over black advertised for 148k and sold as I understood  circa 130s (sold in a couple of weeks).  One seal grey advertised for 143k and at a guess went for high 130's (circa one month) , and I missed out one two days before Christmas that was advertised for 129,995 (great blue / black combo 33km one owner recent uk import moved back to oz,  sold for mid to high 130's (sold within two hours of advertising at a higher price than advertised, I was in the queue with many others after my offer at the advertised  price in a text at 2,30am (5 hours after posting it up at advertised price )

So in summary, world has gone mad if asking prices / odd sale price (not convinced) /  price for 996tt's is circa 130k .  With actual current sale prices of some early 997.1 turbo's,  if you are patient , may get one for mid to high 130's.  Based on a comparison, surely someone is drinking some kool aide out of the 996 tt fridge  .  A 997.1tt deserves a 30k to 40k premium on a 996tt all day every day.  (Can't see one aspect of a 996 tt coming out in front  if price differential is taken off the table). 

One last note, this move upward in advertised 996tt prices and talk by some is analogous to me going into the share forum hotcopper.com.au whereby there is a gold stock with existing operations and tenements in Australia of high quality grade reserves (one of about 5) and based on their half hearted exploration efforts,  out of the blue they happen to stumble over a gem of a strike that has their share price going into double banger mode (ala 996GT2 -circa 15 odd examples and one owner managers to land a interested UK collector who is impartial to outlaying UK market prices for AUD delivered example and the AUS owner has one heck of a fx pickup and may have started a bididng war).  Then one broker sitting on a gold stock that is geographically related in area only(ala 996 tt) starts ramping up the virtues of their tenements because they are close by and begin trying to pump and dump their stock on the back of the x2 banger stock. Day traders come in who own the stockbrokers stock (996tt owners) and get caught up in what they are seeing a potential sell high quotes and put up their shares for sale.   Odd order sells, most do' don't , those that brought high wish they brought something else (ala 997.1tt for similar price) as the stock price decreases and reverts back to the value of its tenement prior to the x2 banger stock going up (ala sub 100k prices before the 996 GT2 sold).  A 996tt aint a 996 GT2 / gt3 and any direct / indirect extrapolations will be short lived as a I see it

So that was  just setting the scene (or blowing some steam) so lets get back to  your question posed, "I wonder what happens to the 997tt in the midst of all this? If 996's are occupying the mid 100's, with gen 1 997's only 10-15% more, do they start to climb in price to? It's almost as if anything of the slightest merrit now has a base price of $100k upwards. It really is an amazing time to be buying second hand p-car", that  will attempt to switch gears answer it in the form of  mathematic formulae

Based on a buyer of a 997.1 that lives in the real world (not mars or pluto)

X = Price of a 996tt ( good clean average  km)

Y = Price of a 997.1tt (normal condition  average kms 997.1)

Z = 40 (premium on normal condition  average kms 997.1 over a  996tt ( good clean average km)

Y = X + Z

Note 1) As a buyer, I am only interested in dealing with actual sale prices w here their is a 95% confidence level that cash changes hand at these prices, so ,90k<x<100k

Based on a 997.1 current  owner  in mars or pluto ( world gone mad scenario)  who would like to see an increase the net asset column based on unrealizable asset valuations:

X = Price of a 996tt ( my  996tt's with under 70k is concourse condition of coarse)

Z=40(premium on normal condition  average kms 997.1 over a  996tt ( good clean average km)

Y = X + 2Z

Note 1) World one mad scenario where the 996tt owner lists on car sales (modifies the add periodically to snag that one punter that arrives from Mars or pluto that has too much money and loves the thrill of an impulse  buy at a price , which correlates to a  5% confidence level of achieving  cash changing hand compared to to a mere earthlings appetite to buy , so 115k<X<135k

PS Someone also needs do something to get that modified  996 in Perth at 125k off carsales or change the price to 100k for a quick sale, would of made his money in two months they plowed it into  MOY shares (gold stock of coarse) at a recent capital raising two months (6.9 c before capital raising,  at 4 cents at capital raising , down 3.6ents not far after capital raising and time to sell today to  get his illusive extra 25k. Highsight, such a wonderful thing, if only I multiplied that buy order by a factor of 10, that said, hindsight has me thinking, I won't be  disappointed if I won't be forking out 130k to 150k for a 996tt.

Edited 28January, 2016 by smit2100

[1q2w3e4r]

World hasn't really gone that mad.

2 years ago they were the same price as a 993TT, which as outlined there were roughly the same amount of manual's delivered.

The 6 kept dropping in price and the 993TT went up.  Same with your 930 turbos and standard 993/964 Carrera's, there was no way that a 964 was going to stay worth more than a turbo long term.

Mine's insured with Shannon's along with my other cars, I've recently upped the insurance on the others and the increased the coverage on my 996 (at their suggestion,  without an adjustment in premium) due to the price increases they'd seen

997.1TT's will likely stay or go up in price, they are now hovering/asking around the $180k mark for a manual one and more with lower km.  8 months ago that was a $150k car.  You're not going to get one (a 997TT) in the $130ks that is a manual, the blue one was a UK import.  It also doesn't make sense that a good exampled, low km original 996 GT3 is trading at $100k more than a similar exampled turbo

But that is just my 2c

[symsy]

Smit pretty complex analysis

I think its funny , that their aint no register per say , shit there are enough people watching/tracking these numbers but I will say it again I reckon there are a lot of hyped sales , lots of bragging rights about whos flipped their car.

When you consider how many members we have and how many other Pcar drivers you might know , it would seem almost impossible for cars to dissapear outta the market without some indication of sales prices.

Who wants to create a RP style database for cars sales ..I will fund a corner , who wouldnt pay for good data?? Whos got the data

I do think this markets got some drop, after being in the trading years back you learn to get over the someones making a profit sydndrome and you also always want to do the deal of that day , most of these cars are being traded like commodities lets face it. No one however likes to wants to loose too much.

I cant find or seem to defne any indicators that make much sense on the market here , generally its a conservative australian market , in a healthyish economy , with a relatively large allocation of cars and apart from occasional Foreign Exchange diversity this market dont make much sense..

Buy cars ..burn fuel..make better looking traffic ..thats all I know 

Think I need a job

[turboT]

Call me a dick ..... but I would do the same thing. Free advertising wherever I could.

Just for the record .... That "dick .... with no idea" needs a Bunnings warehouse to store his collection ..... I'd be happy to take his title .....

Pretty sure if you own a collection of cars that need a Bunnings for storage, you aren't doing your own posts on Gumtree. Said gent probably has a bigger dick than most here, rather than being one

 

[tazzieman]

 

“We’ve got an algorithm-based program where we see the arbitrage pricing of cars up to five years old,” says Denny. “We source these cars in Europe and other countries that we are retailing in, and then sell them to dealers in those countries. It is a commodity and we are doing the arbitrage. We are downloading data every five minutes across many websites. As soon as these cars appear on the market we analyse it very quickly. Information is then given to the call centre who call or email the [sellers]. We have 50 mobile buyers spread around the country and we can take that car out of the market within one hour.”

http://www.brw.com.au/p/lists/rich-200/2015/used_denny_salesman_tony_fortune_XDWoyxIZA3Qv3pVxYjUppI

Sounds like the "fine art" world to me. What we see is the tip of the collector's iceberg. No matter ; as the doctor in Blackadder "Bells" said , it "Just leaves more rampant totty for us real men, eh?"

I think he was referring to V8 Porsches

 

[Pork Chops]

+1 to Steve's comment .  Yes 996tt advertised prices have gone mad.

I have stayed silent to date as a potential buyer of a 996tt on this thread generally having been monitoring 996 tt prices / advertised examples for 12 to 18 months.  Monitoring has turned into active pursuit since June15  last year.   So yes, off the bat,  I am obviously biased as a potential buyer and that needs to be considered in the following rant having considered packing up my bat and ball and playing back at my old ground (ala audi)

What evidence is their to suggest these 996tt's manual tt's are changing hands via actual eft transactions at these mad world advertised prices for you to arrive at 996's are occupying mid 100's  (Opps I forgot, no doubt those owners who aren't interested in converting dollars into cash when the need arises had already bumped up their net  assets on paper prior to advertising and or / may  have to fesh up and say to their ministers of finance,  its taking longer than I thought to sell and that O/S holiday I banked on paying for by the profit the 996tt sale may need to be put on the back burner)

Since July 2015 (when normal world not gone mad advertised prices was the norm, I don't recall seeing any new examples being advertised until  October15 .  Since then I can only recall seeing 3 and a half manual tt cars move off car sales if I use that as a reference point based on commentary below

0.5 example = the silver one referenced. Granted, very nice example and ticked all my boxes.    Its 0.5 of a sale, because I rang the owner, after 1 photo put up in car sales, I got in contact after a lot of messages left over the course of a day, and in the back of my mind my approach to go into the call was to say, like you car, ask a few standard questions and end the call with I  understand its just been advertised, and I long shot I know but , if you ever consider dropping the price and you would be willing to come down to circa to 100k (completely align with Steve's thinking here), let me know.  So I got though and  asked about the car etc and then asked how did you set your price.  Automatically the one owner of the car goes into the marketing spiel of how they are collectors, making reference to currrent advertised prices for watercooled, 996gt2 marks, the modified 996 tt in Perth advertised in Perth.  Ok,  so I am about to ask if the owner would onsider a drop the price, instead of the stock answer I just advertised it at that price, so I'm not prepared to move (perhaps 1 or 2k only),  I  get,   I have at least 10 messages I haven't answered yet regarding the car and when the add it goes up with the rest of the pictures on car sales next week, I think I am going to increase the price based on all this interest. So their goes my strategy along with the end of the call.  So  true to his word, I recall the price when the pics were  posted up a few days later and it sits at circa 137,500 .  So a week or so later, get an alert saying sold.  I thought $%^ me, someone was desparate / or has money to spend and paid one heck of premium for that (like these ridiculous advertised prices on all the 996 cabs / 996 cab s  that have not moved for months and months.  That black turbo s advertised at 137,500 the month before with 22,000 ( pretty good times at queensland raceway for a stocky) was a bargin. 

However I'll chalk that  up to half a sale as about the same time it went off car sales, a red one in Adelaide with a kit comes up on a 144,500.  Got a email alert a week or two later on a new  996tt 2003 silver / black combo and super keen to see the advertised price.  Disappointed to say the least and another  $%^ me, same car, same contact, and not to be outdone, bit of my cars better than yours so I'll raise your 144,500 and this time I whack another 10k and shall we go at  147,500. Since then it had been at 144,000,( below the 144,500 for the red one), back to 147,500 after the red one was taken off / sold?? and today I get a price alert say down to  139,500.   Welcome to the Porsche 996 tt la la land   

That all said, if that price alert had been circa 100,000 , I would of been on the phone, itching at the bit to hit the send button with an eft deposit and requesting it be dropped off for a PPI the next day.

2nd Car - 996tt Redish one in Adelaide  (not your run of the mill stock example, colour wise)  Taken off a couple of weeks ago (not what I would say was a quick  sale. , Was not sold straight away, but appears to have been.  At what  price, Call me a sceptic but not seeing 144,500????  Representative of the general 996tt's that come up =defintely not

3rd Car  Silver / black combo in Tassie, Initially advertised just under 130k, taken off car sales in about a week.  I would rate this as a genuine sale.  I didn't enquire because year of the  year, (after a post 2002 year build) . At guess I would say owner would advertised circa high 120's and would have taken circa 100k and happy with that

4th  Yellow 996tt at a dealer,   Put on at circa135ish, as I recall, then disappeared pretty quickly

I believe that these crazy world 996tt  advertised prices that have come about since Oct15 are driven by three outliers in chronological order

1) The 125k 996 tt heavily modified 996 tt has sat on car sales for probably over  a year   (was at 125k, down to 110k when everything was selling sub 90k , back to 125 when it was the last one that didn't sell (cabs  excluded) .  Any new example appears to use that as a sign post  / benchmark notwithstanding it a 40k rebuild per the add and 700hp pls (should of sold I would at thought at 110 or 125k given the mods. 

2) Word gets out / rumour has it theres a collector / buyer O/S who says I  cant land a GT2 here in the UK , and not fussed its AUD delivered, runs the  numbers and says whats the chance of selling at this price (probably a x2 banger on purchase price for the owner).  Sets an expectation, some lucky bugger says I'll sell circa 400k, I can get a 996gt3 (track)and 997.2tt (daily) for that  and still bank some cash and watch these go up at some point in time (would be sitting on another x 0.5 banger if brought a 996 gt3  at the time they  sold the gt2 based on prices  today.   But a a 996tt is not 996gt2 ot 996gt3

3)The silver one referenced in Steve's post is probabaly thinking the second time around , thinking one owner,  55,xxx km,  now a collectors and onlyheading up , serviced every 5k example, I raise it it 2.5k (opps  12,5k)over that heavily modified one and 3k over the red one.  And then for the onslaught, within days a couple of owners with cars they have held for 6 months to 12 months are saying,,I enjoy the car on the weekends, but if I can advertise  somewhere with a 13x that none is  at, I'll  may be able to get a min 40% plus percent return on a flip.  I'LL  hold out and I am in no rush to sell.  Then a couple more come on, all just under 130k.

Now just an opposite outlier, which is good for me if I ever do picked up one in a normal world scenario pricing, for tax purposes  I planned on doing a sale and lease back via novated lease for a 2003 / 2004 model . There are obviously benefits to getting the lowest vehicle value possible for leasing purposes eg  minimise lease interest payments, fbt and luxury car tax etc.  June last year I couldn't move the lease companies valuations from 70k beiing the the absolute lowest valuation they could  do to set the lease at for any 996tt an the later the year up was the value . Step forward to this year, 62,500, is what they offered me with no pushing

Also tried to get an insurance  quote for a 996tt very recently for say 95k agreed market, response was we will only insure at purchase price, unless you have an indepentant party verify the value.  So what is market value - Car sales current advertised price at Circa 130k  (lease company appears  62.5k at the low end (under glaases / redbook lowest trade in price)

In relation to 997.1 tt' manual 's lets talk actual sales.  Since Oct15 as I see it,  One red wrapped over black advertised for 148k and sold as I understood  circa 130s (sold in a couple of weeks).  One seal grey advertised for 143k and at a guess went for high 130's (circa one month) , and I missed out one two days before Christmas that was advertised for 129,995 (great blue / black combo 33km one owner recent uk import moved back to oz,  sold for mid to high 130's (sold within two hours of advertising at a higher price than advertised, I was in the queue with many others after my offer at the advertised  price in a text at 2,30am (5 hours after posting it up at advertised price )

So in summary, world has gone mad if asking prices / odd sale price (not convinced) /  price for 996tt's is circa 130k .  With actual current sale prices of some early 997.1 turbo's,  if you are patient , may get one for mid to high 130's.  Based on a comparison, surely someone is drinking some kool aide out of the 996 tt fridge  .  A 997.1tt deserves a 30k to 40k premium on a 996tt all day every day.  (Can't see one aspect of a 996 tt coming out in front  if price differential is taken off the table). 

One last note, this move upward in advertised 996tt prices and talk by some is analogous to me going into the share forum hotcopper.com.au whereby there is a gold stock with existing operations and tenements in Australia of high quality grade reserves (one of about 5) and based on their half hearted exploration efforts,  out of the blue they happen to stumble over a gem of a strike that has their share price going into double banger mode (ala 996GT2 -circa 15 odd examples and one owner managers to land a interested UK collector who is impartial to outlaying UK market prices for AUD delivered example and the AUS owner has one heck of a fx pickup and may have started a bididng war).  Then one broker sitting on a gold stock that is geographically related in area only(ala 996 tt) starts ramping up the virtues of their tenements because they are close by and begin trying to pump and dump their stock on the back of the x2 banger stock. Day traders come in who own the stockbrokers stock (996tt owners) and get caught up in what they are seeing a potential sell high quotes and put up their shares for sale.   Odd order sells, most do' don't , those that brought high wish they brought something else (ala 997.1tt for similar price) as the stock price decreases and reverts back to the value of its tenement prior to the x2 banger stock going up (ala sub 100k prices before the 996 GT2 sold).  A 996tt aint a 996 GT2 / gt3 and any direct / indirect extrapolations will be short lived as a I see it

So that was  just setting the scene (or blowing some steam) so lets get back to  your question posed, "I wonder what happens to the 997tt in the midst of all this? If 996's are occupying the mid 100's, with gen 1 997's only 10-15% more, do they start to climb in price to? It's almost as if anything of the slightest merrit now has a base price of $100k upwards. It really is an amazing time to be buying second hand p-car", that  will attempt to switch gears answer it in the form of  mathematic formulae

Based on a buyer of a 997.1 that lives in the real world (not mars or pluto)

X = Price of a 996tt ( good clean average  km)

Y = Price of a 997.1tt (normal condition  average kms 997.1)

Z = 40 (premium on normal condition  average kms 997.1 over a  996tt ( good clean average km)

Y = X + Z

Note 1) As a buyer, I am only interested in dealing with actual sale prices w here their is a 95% confidence level that cash changes hand at these prices, so ,90k<x<100k

Based on a 997.1 current  owner  in mars or pluto ( world gone mad scenario)  who would like to see an increase the net asset column based on unrealizable asset valuations:

X = Price of a 996tt ( my  996tt's with under 70k is concourse condition of coarse)

Z=40(premium on normal condition  average kms 997.1 over a  996tt ( good clean average km)

Y = X + 2Z

Note 1) World one mad scenario where the 996tt owner lists on car sales (modifies the add periodically to snag that one punter that arrives from Mars or pluto that has too much money and loves the thrill of an impulse  buy at a price , which correlates to a  5% confidence level of achieving  cash changing hand compared to to a mere earthlings appetite to buy , so 115k<X<135k

PS Someone also needs do something to get that modified  996 in Perth at 125k off carsales or change the price to 100k for a quick sale, would of made his money in two months they plowed it into  MOY shares (gold stock of coarse) at a recent capital raising two months (6.9 c before capital raising,  at 4 cents at capital raising , down 3.6ents not far after capital raising and time to sell today to  get his illusive extra 25k. Highsight, such a wonderful thing, if only I multiplied that buy order by a factor of 10, that said, hindsight has me thinking, I won't be  disappointed if I won't be forking out 130k to 150k for a 996tt.

Goodness me.  tl;dr.  Should have bought 1 a year ago is the quick summary.

[Blue964]

+1 to Steve's comment .  Yes 996tt advertised prices have gone mad.

I have stayed silent to date as a potential buyer of a 996tt on this thread generally having been monitoring 996 tt prices / advertised examples for 12 to 18 months.  Monitoring has turned into active pursuit since June15  last year.   So yes, off the bat,  I am obviously biased as a potential buyer and that needs to be considered in the following rant having considered packing up my bat and ball and playing back at my old ground (ala audi)

What evidence is their to suggest these 996tt's manual tt's are changing hands via actual eft transactions at these mad world advertised prices for you to arrive at 996's are occupying mid 100's  (Opps I forgot, no doubt those owners who aren't interested in converting dollars into cash when the need arises had already bumped up their net  assets on paper prior to advertising and or / may  have to fesh up and say to their ministers of finance,  its taking longer than I thought to sell and that O/S holiday I banked on paying for by the profit the 996tt sale may need to be put on the back burner)

Since July 2015 (when normal world not gone mad advertised prices was the norm, I don't recall seeing any new examples being advertised until  October15 .  Since then I can only recall seeing 3 and a half manual tt cars move off car sales if I use that as a reference point based on commentary below

0.5 example = the silver one referenced. Granted, very nice example and ticked all my boxes.    Its 0.5 of a sale, because I rang the owner, after 1 photo put up in car sales, I got in contact after a lot of messages left over the course of a day, and in the back of my mind my approach to go into the call was to say, like you car, ask a few standard questions and end the call with I  understand its just been advertised, and I long shot I know but , if you ever consider dropping the price and you would be willing to come down to circa to 100k (completely align with Steve's thinking here), let me know.  So I got though and  asked about the car etc and then asked how did you set your price.  Automatically the one owner of the car goes into the marketing spiel of how they are collectors, making reference to currrent advertised prices for watercooled, 996gt2 marks, the modified 996 tt in Perth advertised in Perth.  Ok,  so I am about to ask if the owner would onsider a drop the price, instead of the stock answer I just advertised it at that price, so I'm not prepared to move (perhaps 1 or 2k only),  I  get,   I have at least 10 messages I haven't answered yet regarding the car and when the add it goes up with the rest of the pictures on car sales next week, I think I am going to increase the price based on all this interest. So their goes my strategy along with the end of the call.  So  true to his word, I recall the price when the pics were  posted up a few days later and it sits at circa 137,500 .  So a week or so later, get an alert saying sold.  I thought $%^ me, someone was desparate / or has money to spend and paid one heck of premium for that (like these ridiculous advertised prices on all the 996 cabs / 996 cab s  that have not moved for months and months.  That black turbo s advertised at 137,500 the month before with 22,000 ( pretty good times at queensland raceway for a stocky) was a bargin. 

However I'll chalk that  up to half a sale as about the same time it went off car sales, a red one in Adelaide with a kit comes up on a 144,500.  Got a email alert a week or two later on a new  996tt 2003 silver / black combo and super keen to see the advertised price.  Disappointed to say the least and another  $%^ me, same car, same contact, and not to be outdone, bit of my cars better than yours so I'll raise your 144,500 and this time I whack another 10k and shall we go at  147,500. Since then it had been at 144,000,( below the 144,500 for the red one), back to 147,500 after the red one was taken off / sold?? and today I get a price alert say down to  139,500.   Welcome to the Porsche 996 tt la la land   

That all said, if that price alert had been circa 100,000 , I would of been on the phone, itching at the bit to hit the send button with an eft deposit and requesting it be dropped off for a PPI the next day.

2nd Car - 996tt Redish one in Adelaide  (not your run of the mill stock example, colour wise)  Taken off a couple of weeks ago (not what I would say was a quick  sale. , Was not sold straight away, but appears to have been.  At what  price, Call me a sceptic but not seeing 144,500????  Representative of the general 996tt's that come up =defintely not

3rd Car  Silver / black combo in Tassie, Initially advertised just under 130k, taken off car sales in about a week.  I would rate this as a genuine sale.  I didn't enquire because year of the  year, (after a post 2002 year build) . At guess I would say owner would advertised circa high 120's and would have taken circa 100k and happy with that

4th  Yellow 996tt at a dealer,   Put on at circa135ish, as I recall, then disappeared pretty quickly

I believe that these crazy world 996tt  advertised prices that have come about since Oct15 are driven by three outliers in chronological order

1) The 125k 996 tt heavily modified 996 tt has sat on car sales for probably over  a year   (was at 125k, down to 110k when everything was selling sub 90k , back to 125 when it was the last one that didn't sell (cabs  excluded) .  Any new example appears to use that as a sign post  / benchmark notwithstanding it a 40k rebuild per the add and 700hp pls (should of sold I would at thought at 110 or 125k given the mods. 

2) Word gets out / rumour has it theres a collector / buyer O/S who says I  cant land a GT2 here in the UK , and not fussed its AUD delivered, runs the  numbers and says whats the chance of selling at this price (probably a x2 banger on purchase price for the owner).  Sets an expectation, some lucky bugger says I'll sell circa 400k, I can get a 996gt3 (track)and 997.2tt (daily) for that  and still bank some cash and watch these go up at some point in time (would be sitting on another x 0.5 banger if brought a 996 gt3  at the time they  sold the gt2 based on prices  today.   But a a 996tt is not 996gt2 ot 996gt3

3)The silver one referenced in Steve's post is probabaly thinking the second time around , thinking one owner,  55,xxx km,  now a collectors and onlyheading up , serviced every 5k example, I raise it it 2.5k (opps  12,5k)over that heavily modified one and 3k over the red one.  And then for the onslaught, within days a couple of owners with cars they have held for 6 months to 12 months are saying,,I enjoy the car on the weekends, but if I can advertise  somewhere with a 13x that none is  at, I'll  may be able to get a min 40% plus percent return on a flip.  I'LL  hold out and I am in no rush to sell.  Then a couple more come on, all just under 130k.

Now just an opposite outlier, which is good for me if I ever do picked up one in a normal world scenario pricing, for tax purposes  I planned on doing a sale and lease back via novated lease for a 2003 / 2004 model . There are obviously benefits to getting the lowest vehicle value possible for leasing purposes eg  minimise lease interest payments, fbt and luxury car tax etc.  June last year I couldn't move the lease companies valuations from 70k beiing the the absolute lowest valuation they could  do to set the lease at for any 996tt an the later the year up was the value . Step forward to this year, 62,500, is what they offered me with no pushing

Also tried to get an insurance  quote for a 996tt very recently for say 95k agreed market, response was we will only insure at purchase price, unless you have an indepentant party verify the value.  So what is market value - Car sales current advertised price at Circa 130k  (lease company appears  62.5k at the low end (under glaases / redbook lowest trade in price)

In relation to 997.1 tt' manual 's lets talk actual sales.  Since Oct15 as I see it,  One red wrapped over black advertised for 148k and sold as I understood  circa 130s (sold in a couple of weeks).  One seal grey advertised for 143k and at a guess went for high 130's (circa one month) , and I missed out one two days before Christmas that was advertised for 129,995 (great blue / black combo 33km one owner recent uk import moved back to oz,  sold for mid to high 130's (sold within two hours of advertising at a higher price than advertised, I was in the queue with many others after my offer at the advertised  price in a text at 2,30am (5 hours after posting it up at advertised price )

So in summary, world has gone mad if asking prices / odd sale price (not convinced) /  price for 996tt's is circa 130k .  With actual current sale prices of some early 997.1 turbo's,  if you are patient , may get one for mid to high 130's.  Based on a comparison, surely someone is drinking some kool aide out of the 996 tt fridge  .  A 997.1tt deserves a 30k to 40k premium on a 996tt all day every day.  (Can't see one aspect of a 996 tt coming out in front  if price differential is taken off the table). 

One last note, this move upward in advertised 996tt prices and talk by some is analogous to me going into the share forum hotcopper.com.au whereby there is a gold stock with existing operations and tenements in Australia of high quality grade reserves (one of about 5) and based on their half hearted exploration efforts,  out of the blue they happen to stumble over a gem of a strike that has their share price going into double banger mode (ala 996GT2 -circa 15 odd examples and one owner managers to land a interested UK collector who is impartial to outlaying UK market prices for AUD delivered example and the AUS owner has one heck of a fx pickup and may have started a bididng war).  Then one broker sitting on a gold stock that is geographically related in area only(ala 996 tt) starts ramping up the virtues of their tenements because they are close by and begin trying to pump and dump their stock on the back of the x2 banger stock. Day traders come in who own the stockbrokers stock (996tt owners) and get caught up in what they are seeing a potential sell high quotes and put up their shares for sale.   Odd order sells, most do' don't , those that brought high wish they brought something else (ala 997.1tt for similar price) as the stock price decreases and reverts back to the value of its tenement prior to the x2 banger stock going up (ala sub 100k prices before the 996 GT2 sold).  A 996tt aint a 996 GT2 / gt3 and any direct / indirect extrapolations will be short lived as a I see it

So that was  just setting the scene (or blowing some steam) so lets get back to  your question posed, "I wonder what happens to the 997tt in the midst of all this? If 996's are occupying the mid 100's, with gen 1 997's only 10-15% more, do they start to climb in price to? It's almost as if anything of the slightest merrit now has a base price of $100k upwards. It really is an amazing time to be buying second hand p-car", that  will attempt to switch gears answer it in the form of  mathematic formulae

Based on a buyer of a 997.1 that lives in the real world (not mars or pluto)

X = Price of a 996tt ( good clean average  km)

Y = Price of a 997.1tt (normal condition  average kms 997.1)

Z = 40 (premium on normal condition  average kms 997.1 over a  996tt ( good clean average km)

Y = X + Z

Note 1) As a buyer, I am only interested in dealing with actual sale prices w here their is a 95% confidence level that cash changes hand at these prices, so ,90k<x<100k

Based on a 997.1 current  owner  in mars or pluto ( world gone mad scenario)  who would like to see an increase the net asset column based on unrealizable asset valuations:

X = Price of a 996tt ( my  996tt's with under 70k is concourse condition of coarse)

Z=40(premium on normal condition  average kms 997.1 over a  996tt ( good clean average km)

Y = X + 2Z

Note 1) World one mad scenario where the 996tt owner lists on car sales (modifies the add periodically to snag that one punter that arrives from Mars or pluto that has too much money and loves the thrill of an impulse  buy at a price , which correlates to a  5% confidence level of achieving  cash changing hand compared to to a mere earthlings appetite to buy , so 115k<X<135k

PS Someone also needs do something to get that modified  996 in Perth at 125k off carsales or change the price to 100k for a quick sale, would of made his money in two months they plowed it into  MOY shares (gold stock of coarse) at a recent capital raising two months (6.9 c before capital raising,  at 4 cents at capital raising , down 3.6ents not far after capital raising and time to sell today to  get his illusive extra 25k. Highsight, such a wonderful thing, if only I multiplied that buy order by a factor of 10, that said, hindsight has me thinking, I won't be  disappointed if I won't be forking out 130k to 150k for a 996tt.

Boy, that is some analysis. This just shows that their isn't a lot of rational logic driving buyers decisions. If buyers were applying this logic I don't see how the current mad world prices would be sustained. It's all emotion that is driving these prices (I'm still trying to work out how the insane $200k plus asking prices for 996GT3s came about )

 

[turboT]

Boy, that is some analysis. This just shows that their isn't a lot of rational logic driving buyers decisions. If buyers were applying this logic I don't see how the current mad world prices would be sustained. It's all emotion that is driving these prices (I'm still trying to work out how the insane $200k plus asking prices for 996GT3s came about )

 

the other school of thought would be if you spend too much time procrastinating (analysing) you are just going to miss out as many on PFA will attest to. Accept the new reality and go buy a car. Who cares if it loses 20% in the short term because of some global  blip. 

1. you will have a great car 

2. all normal cars depreciate, but if you have chosen well you might get lucky and avoid this phenomenon. 

3. You will have a great car