itsujack Posted 6July, 2015 Report Share Posted 6July, 2015 Having been on the hunt for a 964 (or two) the past few years, I thought a dedicated thread on the 964 market was worth starting. Whilst it’s difficult to stay up to date on actual values it has been easier to track the relative values, model v model. To be clear, this has nothing to do with personal preference. These are the relative values based on sales. So, having assumed like for like history, mileage, originality, colour combo, options, year model, overall condition etc I’ve ordered the relative model values of all the 964 variants that were available in Australia. There might be one or two out of place and happy to amend if anyone wants to contribute info. Firstly for reference here are the list prices when new: 1 $295k Turbo 3.6 2 $279k Turbo 3.3 3 $245k C2 Tiptronic Conv. WB 4 $237k C2 Manual Conv. WB 5 $225k C4 Jubi 6 $216k C4 Manual Convertible 7 $205k C2 Tiptronic Convertible 8 $202k C4 Manual Targa 9 $196k C2 Manual Convertible =10 $195k C4 Manual Coupe =10 $195k Speedster 12 $192k C2 Tiptronic Targa 13 $191k RS 14 $184k C2 Tiptronic Coupe 15 $183k C2 Manual Targa 16 $175k C2 Manual Coupe UPDATE for reference $230k 928 GTS Manual or Auto $220k 928 S4/GT $157k 968 Cab Auto $150k 968 Cab Manual $142k 968 Coupe Auto $135k 968 Coupe Manual And now here is where I think we are today. Note the top 4 are well out on their own. The Jubi is a bit of an unknown here as not many around. Then there is a bit of daylight to the C2 Manual Coupe, which itself sits out on its own, before the rest of the model range follows. 1 Turbo 3.6 2 Turbo 3.3 3 RS 4 Speedster 5 C4 Jubi 6 C2 Manual Coupe 7 C2 Manual Conv. WB 8 C4 Manual Coupe 9 C2 Tiptronic Coupe 10 C2 Tiptronic Conv. WB 11 C2 Manual Targa 12 C2 Manual Convertible 13 C2 Tiptronic Targa 14 C2 Tiptronic Convertible 15 C4 Manual Targa 16 C4 Manual Convertible I’d say the only cars demanding equivalent or more than their new car price would be the top 4. The 964 is nearly 30 years old now. I don’t have any data on where all these cars were 15 years ago but my guess is that was the time to buy an RS, Turbo, Speedster or Jubi. boslapet and Claywong 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue964 Posted 6July, 2015 Report Share Posted 6July, 2015 (edited) not sure how true this is, but i'm told that when the 964rs came out it wasn't particularly well received as it was considered a bit too hardcore. Makes me laugh to think the the 964 cabs were more expensive than the rs:) Edited 6July, 2015 by Blue964 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 6July, 2015 Report Share Posted 6July, 2015 ^^^ both are peanuts compared to 928's of the era! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claywong Posted 6July, 2015 Report Share Posted 6July, 2015 Great info Jack! Pretty amazing how much the tables have turned... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboT Posted 6July, 2015 Report Share Posted 6July, 2015 Interesting how much new cars cost in the 90's. If a C2 Coupe cost $195k in 1990, that's $360K in todays money. Makes today's new cars look cheap in comparison. Claywong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f40-r Posted 6July, 2015 Report Share Posted 6July, 2015 Hmm what can someone tell me about the C2 Cab that's at CTS? Worth me buying ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claywong Posted 6July, 2015 Report Share Posted 6July, 2015 Hmm what can someone tell me about the C2 Cab that's at CTS? Worth me buying ?What about the black C2 Cab on Carsales mate? That is a serious steal IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue964 Posted 6July, 2015 Report Share Posted 6July, 2015 Hmm what can someone tell me about the C2 Cab that's at CTS? Worth me buying ?I looked at that car yesterday and it is very nice indeed. I really love the colour. I'm actually very surprised CTS aren't asking more given their history of asking premium prices so I am wondering what the catch is although the guys in CTS tell me there is no catch--it's a great colour, manual, C2 and low k's. The one thing I didn't ask was whether it is Aust delivered. edgy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twood Posted 6July, 2015 Report Share Posted 6July, 2015 Being an owner of a 964 C2 you are making me happy. this was taken last Saturday at the C&C Brisbane. Mike D'Silva, Fraz, MB911 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgy Posted 6July, 2015 Report Share Posted 6July, 2015 I looked at that car yesterday and it is very nice indeed. I really love the colour. I'm actually very surprised CTS aren't asking more given their history of asking premium prices so I am wondering what the catch is although the guys in CTS tell me there is no catch--it's a great colour, manual, C2 and low k's. The one thing I didn't ask was whether it is Aust delivered.Beleive it is mate! Residing in since new, this well presented 911 964 Carrera 2 cabriolet was delivered new by York Motors Porsche, Rushcutters in February of 1994. I have a very generalised observation, but quite often collectable classics eclipse their original sale price when new at some point.... that is a scary thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted 7July, 2015 Report Share Posted 7July, 2015 ^^^ both are peanuts compared to 928's of the era! ^^^ Any chance you'd consider translating? ^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 7July, 2015 Report Share Posted 7July, 2015 + 20k than an RS?These were taken out of the delivery books I have for my 964. I have the carrera 4's listed at sub 180k so the 928's were 30k+ on top, not quite peanuts but you get the idea.................still a lot of money when comparing current values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted 7July, 2015 Report Share Posted 7July, 2015 Ahh, so it's obviously like, ahhm, that Why-Gen thing where tenses and plurals don't exist? Peter M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 7July, 2015 Report Share Posted 7July, 2015 Ahh, so it's obviously like, ahhm, that Why-Gen thing where tenses and plurals don't exist?Not sure what you mean by that? I've just taken the time to go and dig out the service book information, scan them and post specifically for your reference. I thought you may appreciate this, obviously not. Hopefully others will................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airhead Posted 7July, 2015 Report Share Posted 7July, 2015 Interesting the GT was the same price as the S4Know which one I'd rather have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted 7July, 2015 Report Share Posted 7July, 2015 Huge, just playing, but I still don't understand your point? I know I'm a bit thick.In my best Pauline Hanson, please explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsujack Posted 7July, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 7July, 2015 These were taken out of the delivery books I have for my 964. I have the carrera 4's listed at sub 180k so the 928's were 30k+ on top, not quite peanuts but you get the idea.................still a lot of money when comparing current values. Great info Hugh. Do you have these for the 964 also? I've updated the original post to include the price of the rest of the range from my source. My numbers are slightly different to yours but the relative values are what is of interest.If there's one lesson to take away it's don't buy a cab new. Unless you're looking for max. depreciation (which I know some are...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboT Posted 7July, 2015 Report Share Posted 7July, 2015 Great info Hugh. Do you have these for the 964 also? I've updated the original post to include the price of the rest of the range from my source. My numbers are slightly different to yours but the relative values are what is of interest.If there's one lesson to take away it's don't buy a cab new. Unless you're looking for max. depreciation (which I know some are...)carsales would go out of business without cabs ;) ByronBayChris, itsujack and asgraham 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asgraham Posted 11July, 2015 Report Share Posted 11July, 2015 A very interesting thread indeed.I know I have a 'massively depreciated' C4 Cab but I have been thinking about selling (and upgrading of course) recently..so would be interesting to see what she would be worth in the current market. But on the other hand, might be worth keeping if prices are continuing to rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 11July, 2015 Report Share Posted 11July, 2015 Huge, just playing, but I still don't understand your point? I know I'm a bit thick.In my best Pauline Hanson, please explain.So in today's money (inflation as per 2014 data) you would be up for an additional 32k to buy a 928S4 (@ 384k) over a 964 RS. When you look at this against the current day relative values a 928 is worth approx. 14% of its original purchase price whilst a 964RS has appreciated by almost double their initial purchase price. All I was highlighting is that they were an expensive model in comparison to the N/A 911's of the era and I don't believe many people understand this when they look at the relative values of them today. As most of us know they were a very advanced car and well ahead of their time - it just came at a relatively large cost at the time, a relative bargain now in comparison. Great info Hugh. Do you have these for the 964 also? I've updated the original post to include the price of the rest of the range from my source. My numbers are slightly different to yours but the relative values are what is of interest.If there's one lesson to take away it's don't buy a cab new. Unless you're looking for max. depreciation (which I know some are...)Yes, I do have the numbers for the 964 & the 944's - I'll scan them and add them for anyone interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 11July, 2015 Report Share Posted 11July, 2015 Do the above prices come with Keatings little gift to the nation of the LCT, or are they from prior LCT days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsujack Posted 12July, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 12July, 2015 Do the above prices come with Keatings little gift to the nation of the LCT, or are they from prior LCT days?LCT wasn't around in the early nineties but Wholesale Sales Tax was and I understand it was a similar tax, but I'm no accountant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-p Posted 12July, 2015 Report Share Posted 12July, 2015 Yep, LCT was introduced in 2000 as part of the changes to the tax system inconjuction with the GST and at the time was set at 25%. In 2008 it increased to 33%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 12July, 2015 Report Share Posted 12July, 2015 Yep, LCT was introduced in 2000 as part of the changes to the tax system inconjuction with the GST and at the time was set at 25%. In 2008 it increased to 33%. No - Howard/Costello were in by then and it was definitely a Keating thing.Funnily enough I can't find a reference on the internet for when it was introduced. That's because there's a thousand pages in Google of people saying 'let's get rid of this stupid tax'My mum drives a 1994 180E which was a Benz stripper special with cloth, manual windows, clock instead of tach and the smallest motor they made. These were introduced to get under the LCT at the time. So I'm guessing it came in around 1994.Funnily enough both parties have done a tax review and both found the LCT should go.And yet it's still with us. Fingers crossed the government scraps it as an election ploy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 12July, 2015 Report Share Posted 12July, 2015 Having said all that, even without LCT a 964 buyer has felt the sting of depreciation, especially after inflation.While many are amazed at the price rises of recent times, it's only regaining a fraction of what was lost. Especially for those c4 cabs!And says for those who bought a 928 new....sport of kings!Mind you an s-class from the early nineties has probably fared worse. I'm glad there are rich guys stil out there taking the hit for everyone else. Please keep going, your fellow enthusiasts need you. itsujack, StevepGT3 and turboT 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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