996 3.6 Engine Rebuild

[philipk]

I had a previous post where I was going to get the 4.0 upgrade but costs have blown out for the upgrade by more than 50% out for that in the last 12 months so not an option now.

My 3.6 needs a rebuild and I would prefer to give it a bit more power in the bottom end.

I thought about buying a 996 twin turbo motor but my mechanic said there wil be cooling issues.

Anyone had any experience in upgrading a 3.6? 

It will become Haunted Hills/Sandown track car and weekend toy.

Thanks for any thoughts.

[Merv]

Were you looking at the Hartech 3.9 Philip?

[JV911]

Have a look at a few vids in this thread: 

Granted it's a 997 but I imagine the same applies i.e. the engine is optimised from factory and bolt on mods will only lighten your wallet. Anything else will cost big bucks, but if I was rebuilding I'd go 3.8 P&Cs, balanced rotating assembly, cams and valve springs, and exhaust. More bang for you buck upgrading suspension, brakes etc. than sinking a significant sum into a 4.0.

 

[philipk]

End of last year I was quoted $25k for the 4.0 upgrade.

Went back this week to sy ok lets do it and they said it was now approx $40K.

The 3.6 pulls like all hell above 2500-3000rpm, I would like more oomph in the low ramge.

It already has sport exhaust and K&N intake air sustem.

[GTP911]

Sell your car and buy the 996 GT3 @ Autohaus: then add recaros/harness bar enjoy and sell in the future for hopefully little loss or possible profit.

[luzzo]

1 hour ago, philipk said:

End of last year I was quoted $25k for the 4.0 upgrade.

Went back this week to sy ok lets do it and they said it was now approx $40K.

 

Big jump in price. Maybe time to be looking for a new engine builder quote? 

 

[philipk]

As far as upgrading to a GT3, house to renovate{again] so not in the budget.

My thoughts are I have to rebuild the engine anyhow so why not spend a little  extra to give it a bit more power.

 

47 minutes ago, Merv said:

Were you looking at the Hartec 3.9 Philip?

No, my mechanic was organising the rebuid and the motor was going to be sent to the States.

I was going to send it in one of my containers but Coronavirus put an end to that side of my business.

 

[Merv]

The Hartech 3.9 with its innovative strengthening 'skirt' has outstanding reviews on the UK 996 Forum. They have done 1000/s, but they are over there. I don't believe anyone in Australia has the same experience, but I may be quite wrong. I agree with one response above about looking for a decent Mezger-engined 996Turbo, but family costs come first.

[JV911]

32 minutes ago, philipk said:

End of last year I was quoted $25k for the 4.0 upgrade.

That seems extraordinarily cheap (standard rebuilds are usually similar money) and even 40k sounds cheap for a 4.0, what was involved?

[philipk]

Strip the engine here and send the bare block.

Rebore and new pistins.

They said the US component was approx $10k usd, ADD shipping of engine, bring it back do other work that may be needed then send to Sydney to get it remapped?

Do we all think a normal rebuild should be $25k? I do not have any idea.

 

I have had 10 years of fun, and low costs on this car. Everything else is great on the car just needs a new power plant with a bit more power

[LeeM]

 Get onto @Mike D'Silva in Brisbane for a chat

[550Spyder]

~$25k seems to be the going rate to re -commission a 996 that has consumed its IMS and sprayed it to every part of the engine, that seems reasonable that you could procure barrels and pistons in an over bore size for ballpark same money given you are addressing wear not scraphnel. It makes no financial sense to do it but you obviously plan to keep the car so the value is in your enjoyment not in the resale.

ive got to say I have driven a good few 911s the past 20 years and I can’t recall ever getting out and saying I need more power to have more fun / go quicker. If you need to rebuild then rebuild, but if you have spare change I think you would be better spending on front shocks/springs, grippy rubber and some professional lessons to get the most out of what you have. 996 with decent exhaust has plenty of punch for most.

And while I am giving free advice (for a change) you may want to think about Phillip island instead of Sandown. Sandown is essentially a multiple 90 degree corner track dominated by two long straights that doesn’t play to the strengths of a 911, and it has a lot of close Armco and concrete. The more you do track days, the less fear you have and Sandown is a place that can really bite hard. I have 2 friends that have destroyed single seaters there. Phillip island while higher speed is much more open corners where you balance the car on the throttle and really play with the cars balance and has significant run off areas where you are unlikely to brick a car.

IMHO...

[philipk]

6 minutes ago, 550Spyder said:

~$25k seems to be the going rate to re -commission a 996 that has consumed its IMS and sprayed it to every part of the engine, that seems reasonable that you could procure barrels and pistons in an over bore size for ballpark same money given you are addressing wear not scraphnel. It makes no financial sense to do it but you obviously plan to keep the car so the value is in your enjoyment not in the resale.

ive got to say I have driven a good few 911s the past 20 years and I can’t recall ever getting out and saying I need more power to have more fun / go quicker. If you need to rebuild then rebuild, but if you have spare change I think you would be better spending on front shocks/springs, grippy rubber and some professional lessons to get the most out of what you have. 996 with decent exhaust has plenty of punch for most.

And while I am giving free advice (for a change) you may want to think about Phillip island instead of Sandown. Sandown is essentially a multiple 90 degree corner track dominated by two long straights that doesn’t play to the strengths of a 911, and it has a lot of close Armco and concrete. The more you do track days, the less fear you have and Sandown is a place that can really bite hard. I have 2 friends that have destroyed single seaters there. Phillip island while higher speed is much more open corners where you balance the car on the throttle and really play with the cars balance and has significant run off areas where you are unlikely to brick a car.

IMHO...

Car still drives. Blows a bit of smoke on start up but still drives well and pulls hard. 240,000KM.

Not worried about resale.

 My daughter and I love drive days at Phillip Island!!

 

[Jim45]

I always think I'd like more power - then think about trading to a Turbo - then think $40k+ to upgrade and on road costs...

then a little devil voice says Supercharger and I have to stop looking at the internet....what could possibly go wrong?

Has anyone here done this to a 996?

Jim.

[Troubleshooter]

I may be wrong but I have a faint memory of a WA company doing superchargers for 996's, manufacturing or fitting from oseas supplier or something...

[reso18]

I recently rebuilt my 996 3.6L into a 3.9L. Purchased the car needing a rebuild so I cannot help with the torque comparison. It seems to have a great amount of torque down low/mid though! 

I stripped the engine myself and sent the block to Hartech to have there oversize nickasil cylinders installed and oversized pistons supplied along with a full engine rebuild kit/IMS shaft the lot. You could have a local mechanic overhaul the engine and ship it to Hartech or the state's to have nickasil liners installed. Hartech was way more reasonably priced. 

[philipk]

41 minutes ago, reso18 said:

I recently rebuilt my 996 3.6L into a 3.9L. Purchased the car needing a rebuild so I cannot help with the torque comparison. It seems to have a great amount of torque down low/mid though! 

I stripped the engine myself and sent the block to Hartech to have there oversize nickasil cylinders installed and oversized pistons supplied along with a full engine rebuild kit/IMS shaft the lot. You could have a local mechanic overhaul the engine and ship it to Hartech or the state's to have nickasil liners installed. Hartech was way more reasonably priced. 

Thanks I will look into this.

I thought about supercharging but at the time going to 4.0 was easier.

[hugh]

Keep it simple. Rebuild maybe with a few shinier bits but don’t go nuts. 
 

Look at maybe changing up some of the gear ratios. 
 

Spend any savings on a brake and suspension upgrade. Second set of wheels with some R rubber would be worthwhile as well. 
 

That would be my top tip, don’t waste $$$ chasing the HP. Improving the handling will make it more fun to drive than the HP. 
 

My 2 cents. 

[Mike D'Silva]

8 hours ago, philipk said:

I had a previous post where I was going to get the 4.0 upgrade but costs have blown out for the upgrade by more than 50% out for that in the last 12 months so not an option now.

My 3.6 needs a rebuild and I would prefer to give it a bit more power in the bottom end.

I thought about buying a 996 twin turbo motor but my mechanic said there wil be cooling issues.

Anyone had any experience in upgrading a 3.6? 

It will become Haunted Hills/Sandown track car and weekend toy.

Thanks for any thoughts.

https://baileyspecialprojects.com.au/

[Steve996]

14 hours ago, reso18 said:

Hartech was way more reasonably priced. 

Interested in this thread.  Are you able to share indicative pricing?  LN Engineering list their bottom end 3.8 upgrade for the 996.2 3.6 at ~$5k USD.  Is Hartech cheaper than that?

An interesting comparo on some different approaches to making the 6.1 more fun (probably equally as applicable to the 6.2): https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/mag06_compressed.pdf

 

[philipk]

18 hours ago, Mike D'Silva said:

https://baileyspecialprojects.com.au/

Thanks Mike,I will follow them up Monday morning.

19 hours ago, hugh said:

Keep it simple. Rebuild maybe with a few shinier bits but don’t go nuts. 
 

Look at maybe changing up some of the gear ratios. 
 

Spend any savings on a brake and suspension upgrade. Second set of wheels with some R rubber would be worthwhile as well. 
 

That would be my top tip, don’t waste $$$ chasing the HP. Improving the handling will make it more fun to drive than the HP. 
 

My 2 cents. 

 

19 hours ago, hugh said:

Keep it simple. Rebuild maybe with a few shinier bits but don’t go nuts. 
 

Look at maybe changing up some of the gear ratios. 
 

Spend any savings on a brake and suspension upgrade. Second set of wheels with some R rubber would be worthwhile as well. 
 

That would be my top tip, don’t waste $$$ chasing the HP. Improving the handling will make it more fun to drive than the HP. 
 

My 2 cents. 

After you giving Greta track lessons who do you think is saying "Dad, make it go harder".

I should not have let her go on the track with you!😂😂

 

[st3ve]

On 30/07/2020 at 20:32, reso18 said:

I stripped the engine myself and sent the block to Hartech to have there oversize nickasil cylinders installed and oversized pistons supplied along with a full engine rebuild kit/IMS shaft the lot. You could have a local mechanic overhaul the engine and ship it to Hartech or the state's to have nickasil liners installed. Hartech was way more reasonably priced. 

As the owner of an apparently healthy but high mileage 3.6, this is an interesting thread.  Perusing Rennlist can make one paranoid to say the least!  I'm visiting there less and less, although it remains a fantastic resource to google for specific resolutions to issues.

I'm realistic though that an engine refresh is most likely a sensible thing to do if I'm to keep the car for a while.  Even if only to do the chains and guides etc, plus main bearings seem to have a comparatively short lifetime (not surprising given the daft cantilevered crank!).  It would have been nice to hear there was someone in Oz doing the full liner replacement as per the two well known shops in the US/UK but I guess the market is just too small to have anyone specialising in such work.  If requiring or simply desiring that, sending the case halves to Hartec seems like the best option.

[Mike D'Silva]

49 minutes ago, st3ve said:

As the owner of an apparently healthy but high mileage 3.6, this is an interesting thread.  Perusing Rennlist can make one paranoid to say the least!  I'm visiting there less and less, although it remains a fantastic resource to google for specific resolutions to issues.

I'm realistic though that an engine refresh is most likely a sensible thing to do if I'm to keep the car for a while.  Even if only to do the chains and guides etc, plus main bearings seem to have a comparatively short lifetime (not surprising given the daft cantilevered crank!).  It would have been nice to hear there was someone in Oz doing the full liner replacement as per the two well known shops in the US/UK but I guess the market is just too small to have anyone specialising in such work.  If requiring or simply desiring that, sending the case halves to Hartec seems like the best option.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think Greg Bailey at Bailey Special Products might be doing the full thing.

https://baileyspecialprojects.com.au/

[philipk]

1 hour ago, Mike D'Silva said:

I'm not 100% sure, but I think Greg Bailey at Baile Special Products might be doing the full thinghttps://baileyspecialprojects.com.au/

 

 

I will be ringing Greg Bailey in the morning about the upgrade /rebuild.and I will put an update onto the forum.

Any other questions anyone wants me to ask?

[st3ve]

Great info.  Even though (knock on wood) I'm not in the market at this time, I'll be interested to hear about it.