MFX Posted 6October, 2020 Report Share Posted 6October, 2020 This week I go back and have another go at replacing the IMS bearing on Archie my 996. Those of you who haven't seen my IMS bearing removal fail video, make sure you get the proper removal tools before you start. If you don't believe me go back and watch my first attempt Thankfully this time is much more successful. DT, Stepo, GTP911 and 9 others 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911CSR Posted 6October, 2020 Report Share Posted 6October, 2020 How much easier is it with the right tools!!! These vids are some of my fav on You Tube mate....Love ya work. MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstone Posted 6October, 2020 Report Share Posted 6October, 2020 If you still have the puller can you take a pic so we can see how it's special? MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 6October, 2020 Author Report Share Posted 6October, 2020 34 minutes ago, firstone said: If you still have the puller can you take a pic so we can see how it's special? It is not that it is overly special. It is just a simple aluminium tube with a threaded rod going through it. It is just the fact that it is made for the job, so it fits perfectly into the hole in the case and sits on the end of the intermediate shaft. The internal size is the exact size for the bearing to still be pulled into. Nothing complicated, but it attaches to the bearing and pulls it out nice and square, making a job that I tried multiple different pullers with and failed at for a day and a half, an easy 5 mins job ;) firstone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st3ve Posted 7October, 2020 Report Share Posted 7October, 2020 Interested also. There's nothing super amazing is there? Just crank and cam locks and a typical tubular threaded puller but everything is sized just right and of suitable robustness to do the job. I made something similar (more elaborate in fact) for replacing the rear subframe bushes in my e39 Touring. As with this, it made the job quite easy. In this case, coming from LN you have some degree of technical/emotional support and the confidence that it's going to work as designed. Makes a big difference when DIY'ing something that can go expensively wrong. michel and MFX 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 7October, 2020 Report Share Posted 7October, 2020 Nice one Jeff. Curious, how does the old dual row bearing feel now it's out? Assuming it was the original, how many k's on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 7October, 2020 Author Report Share Posted 7October, 2020 2 minutes ago, DT said: Nice one Jeff. Curious, how does the old dual row bearing feel now it's out? Assuming it was the original, how many k's on it? It has 160k on it and it feels completely fine. DT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomo Posted 8October, 2020 Report Share Posted 8October, 2020 21 hours ago, MFX said: It has 160k on it and it feels completely fine. Giday Jeff what was you thinking in going with the ceramic bearing retrofit instead of the ims solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 8October, 2020 Author Report Share Posted 8October, 2020 1 hour ago, tomo said: Giday Jeff what was you thinking in going with the ceramic bearing retrofit instead of the ims solution? I think the IMS solution is something for the super paranoid. If you are petrified every time you drive your car that it might blow up, then that is probably for you. I was honestly happy to just drive the car with the original bearing. As I mentioned the early cars with dual row bearings had around a 1% failure rate and mostly on cars that weren't driven. The single row bearing cars had around an 8% failure rate (by far the highest). Replacing the bearing for me was more because I could make a video about it and it also increases the value of the car by around $5k or so, which is why I did it. tomo and GTP911 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel Posted 8October, 2020 Report Share Posted 8October, 2020 23 hours ago, MFX said: It has 160k on it and it feels completely fine. One taken out of my 2002.2 at around 175,000 kms was also completely fine sir, what was total elapsed tool time - go to woe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 8October, 2020 Author Report Share Posted 8October, 2020 4 minutes ago, michel said: One taken out of my 2002.2 at around 175,000 kms was also completely fine sir, what was total elapsed tool time - go to woe Including filming it was about 2 days in the garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoHeadsTas Posted 8October, 2020 Report Share Posted 8October, 2020 59 minutes ago, MFX said: I think the IMS solution is something for the super paranoid. If you are petrified every time you drive your car that it might blow up, then that is probably for you. I was honestly happy to just drive the car with the original bearing. As I mentioned the early cars with dual row bearings had around a 1% failure rate and mostly on cars that weren't driven. The single row bearing cars had around an 8% failure rate (by far the highest). Replacing the bearing for me was more because I could make a video about it and it also increases the value of the car by around $5k or so, which is why I did it. I think LN have built up a great market on that paranoid fear..... GTP911, MFX and DT 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel Posted 8October, 2020 Report Share Posted 8October, 2020 1 hour ago, TwoHeadsTas said: I think LN have built up a great market on that paranoid fear..... RABY, then is the Queen 1 hour ago, MFX said: Including filming it was about 2 days in the garage. On the tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakroo Posted 8October, 2020 Report Share Posted 8October, 2020 4 hours ago, MFX said: I think the IMS solution is something for the super paranoid. If you are petrified every time you drive your car that it might blow up, then that is probably for you. I was honestly happy to just drive the car with the original bearing. As I mentioned the early cars with dual row bearings had around a 1% failure rate and mostly on cars that weren't driven. The single row bearing cars had around an 8% failure rate (by far the highest). Replacing the bearing for me was more because I could make a video about it and it also increases the value of the car by around $5k or so, which is why I did it. I'm not so sure that something that had a chance of 1 in 100 (1%) or 1 in 12 (8%) would be classed as paranoia. These values are significant proportions of the population. 1 in 10,000,000 or 1 in 50,000,000 is very rare and therefore to worry about them would be heading towards paranoia. I suspect that the paranoia is more likely associated with the cost of repair when it fails ie people might see it as a lowish risk of actually happening but very high repair bill or cost to exit - that is either pay for a rebuild (big bucks), or sell it as a none going item and it'll sell for a significantly reduced value (big bucks written off). At no point in calculation is the failure repair bill a small item. Even at brand new price, it'd be a significant % of purchase price, and it'd be an increasing factor as time goes on and the inherent value of the car reduces with that passing of time. LeeM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 8October, 2020 Author Report Share Posted 8October, 2020 30 minutes ago, jakroo said: I'm not so sure that something that had a chance of 1 in 100 (1%) or 1 in 12 (8%) would be classed as paranoia. These values are significant proportions of the population. 1 in 10,000,000 or 1 in 50,000,000 is very rare and therefore to worry about them would be heading towards paranoia. I suspect that the paranoia is more likely associated with the cost of repair when it fails ie people might see it as a lowish risk of actually happening but very high repair bill or cost to exit - that is either pay for a rebuild (big bucks), or sell it as a none going item and it'll sell for a significantly reduced value (big bucks written off). At no point in calculation is the failure repair bill a small item. Even at brand new price, it'd be a significant % of purchase price, and it'd be an increasing factor as time goes on and the inherent value of the car reduces with that passing of time. I understand the fear of it failing, which is why the 'retrofit' bearing is so popular. The 'solution' is the very expensive, complicated, oil fed bearing set up which is what I was referring to for the paranoid, where the ceramic bearing is still not enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
550Spyder Posted 8October, 2020 Report Share Posted 8October, 2020 I find it really interesting from a human dynamics perspective. i fall into category 1. I could not own a IMS fitted 996/7. Every time I turned the ignition a part of me would be tensing up waiting for the ‘click boom’ and would totally ruin my ownership experience to the point I despised the car. No matter what you said to me about odds or retrofits I just couldn’t get that issue / risk out of my mind to let me enjoy otherwise great cars. Happy to have tons of other risk positions and activities in my life but just can’t rationalise / compartmentalise the IMS issue. many IMS owners are in category 2. They have either never heard of the IMS or they can programme their brain to accept it is a high magnitude, low probability event and never give it another thought. They get in and drive and never give it another thought. pretty odd bunch us humans... firstone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomo Posted 8October, 2020 Report Share Posted 8October, 2020 52 minutes ago, MFX said: I understand the fear of it failing, which is why the 'retrofit' bearing is so popular. The 'solution' is the very expensive, complicated, oil fed bearing set up which is what I was referring to for the paranoid, where the ceramic bearing is still not enough. "The 'solution' is the very expensive, complicated, oil fed bearing" I think complicated is a bit strong Jeff it only has 1 moving part , an oil filter adapter and oil line . Expensive maybe . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 8October, 2020 Author Report Share Posted 8October, 2020 52 minutes ago, tomo said: "The 'solution' is the very expensive, complicated, oil fed bearing" I think complicated is a bit strong Jeff it only has 1 moving part , an oil filter adapter and oil line . Expensive maybe . True. 53 minutes ago, 550Spyder said: I find it really interesting from a human dynamics perspective. i fall into category 1. I could not own a IMS fitted 996/7. Every time I turned the ignition a part of me would be tensing up waiting for the ‘click boom’ and would totally ruin my ownership experience to the point I despised the car. No matter what you said to me about odds or retrofits I just couldn’t get that issue / risk out of my mind to let me enjoy otherwise great cars. Happy to have tons of other risk positions and activities in my life but just can’t rationalise / compartmentalise the IMS issue. many IMS owners are in category 2. They have either never heard of the IMS or they can programme their brain to accept it is a high magnitude, low probability event and never give it another thought. They get in and drive and never give it another thought. pretty odd bunch us humans... I am blissfully in camp 2 with my 996, but I was in camp 1 with my old Cayman S. I never confirmed it, but I am 99% certain by the chewing of oil, new AOS, and clouds of smoke it would blow when it was cold that it had scored bores. It definitely tainted my experience to the extent that I had to get rid of the car (even though I loved it) and I couldn't swallow selling it privately so I traded it in instead taking a hit in the process. tomo and 550Spyder 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 8October, 2020 Report Share Posted 8October, 2020 On 06/10/2020 at 17:08, st3ve said: Interested also. There's nothing super amazing is there? Just crank and cam locks and a typical tubular threaded puller but everything is sized just right and of suitable robustness to do the job. I made something similar (more elaborate in fact) for replacing the rear subframe bushes in my e39 Touring. As with this, it made the job quite easy. In this case, coming from LN you have some degree of technical/emotional support and the confidence that it's going to work as designed. Makes a big difference when DIY'ing something that can go expensively wrong. I have the special tool for the e39 touring subframe bushings. I’ve been hanging onto it forever hoping I would find someone who needed it. If only I knew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st3ve Posted 8October, 2020 Report Share Posted 8October, 2020 👍 My tools are safely tucked away in my beemer cupboard for the next time and/or anyone I find who needs them too. I did mine (530iT M-Sport) at around 250k, so will replace promptly again when it hits half a mil. 😀 Coming up on 310 now and still a joy to drive, great cars. Peter M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelrik911 Posted 9October, 2020 Report Share Posted 9October, 2020 17 hours ago, 550Spyder said: I find it really interesting from a human dynamics perspective. i fall into category 1. I could not own a IMS fitted 996/7. Every time I turned the ignition a part of me would be tensing up waiting for the ‘click boom’ I have had 3 close friends whose IMS's have collapsed in the last 20 years. Two of these were when the 911/Boxts were near new & Porsche replaced/traded-in the blow ups. So that was fortunate for the owners. But in the case of an older car, the repairs cost nearly as much as the car. So I dont trust those 1% ??? "statistics" at all. My friends drive quickly but carefully. Two still have Porsches in their families - but not for 'sports car' reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howe Posted 13October, 2020 Report Share Posted 13October, 2020 TDC on compression stroke Jeff, reasonable important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnHyaku Posted 25October, 2020 Report Share Posted 25October, 2020 I'm not sure if this has been widely seen, but it is from Feb this year and appears to capture the condition of a double-row bearing just prior to failure: luzzo, Peter M and CarreraG50 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantmr Posted 25October, 2020 Report Share Posted 25October, 2020 IMS option 1 has a shorter life time than the option 2. I was told 5-7 years for the ceramic bearing, 10+ for the Solution. Something to consider when weighing up cost. I just did mine (opt 1) on a 170k 986s, while I was replacing the clutch. No observable damage on the old bearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tips Posted 13January, 2021 Report Share Posted 13January, 2021 just watched your Video Jeff, loved the detail, many others don't talk to the crank and cam locking. Looked a little more work than what I could possibly attempt. Having just purchased the 996.1 I wasn't fussed that it did not have the IMS done based on my purchase price there was room to absorb some long term maintenance requirements and not be underwater in its value. I have reached out to 2 Syd independents and both recommend the retrofit. By the time you do the 'while your in there' activities of clutch, oil separator, main seal and flywheel its now a circa $6k job. Being an early car with the dual row bearing (supposed low risk) I am really struggling to justify the $6k spend vs $5k improvement in resale (probably sell in the next year or so) but maybe it would help it sell faster. I am wanting to do a suspension refresh shortly so its a real catch 22 on peace of mind vs better driving experience, real conundrum for me right now 🤔 MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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