3.2 Carrera Market Watch

[red clubbie]

 

Was yours the Red one at Rennsport that was like new?

No, mine was a Zinc Metallic car that sold through the CTS.

 

Cheers,

Geoff.

[FAP911]

 

Of course he is entitled to ask what he wants for the car, but the reality is, if he wants to sell it, then he would have to reduce the asking price substantially.

I recently sold my Concours winning 3.2 Carrera prior to the "dip", but should I be selling it now, I would have had to reduce the asking price.

 

Cheers,

Geoff.

Is it the one currently 'Under Offer" now

[GusTV]

 

Was yours the Red one at Rennsport that was like new?

the one at Rennsport that won an award was my old car that I sold back in 2008.Very low mileage 88 red carrera. Current owner has taken very good care of it. I thought i was very clever selling it for 70k!  

No, mine was a Zinc Metallic car that sold through the CTS.

 

Cheers,

Geoff.

that one was a beauty. ?

[FAP911]

the one at Rennsport that won an award was my old car that I sold back in 2008.Very low mileage 88 red carrera. Current owner has taken very good care of it. I thought i was very clever selling it for 70k!  

that one was a beauty. ?

Stunning example - Now too good to drive I'd say

But each to their own as to how they enjoy their cars 

[hugh]

I hope i don't need to sell for a long time, but when I do, i don't want ine of those cars that takes months (or longer) to sell.

You will get way more value out of the car if you do want you want and making it yours - make a decision to keep it forever and free your mind. 

[red clubbie]

 

Is it the one currently 'Under Offer" now

No, I sold mine in September 2016.

 

Cheers,

Geoff.

[Peter M]

Is it the one currently 'Under Offer" now

That's mine!

[FAP911]

That's mine!

Nice! Great colour

[SimonN]

i sometimes notice some people big up their own cars yet nit pick on anything else that appears

In the fresh light of day, i certainly seem guilty of that comment, but that is not what i was trying to do or say. I have no need to talk my car up. As anybody who knows me, I am very happy with it and the price I paid and I have no intention of selling it any time soon. the point I clearly so badly made is that people have a tendency to tar all cars with the same brush. It happens with imports in general, UK cars and converted cars. My point is that within those groups of cars, there are good ones and they are great value.

There are a lot of people out there who really want to by a 911 but do not have the crazy money we are now seeing for Oz delivered cars. They read the forums and what they see is so many people being so negative about anything not Oz delivered. Imports are all suspect because you cannot prove the history, UK cars rust away, converted cars are all done badly etc. So the dream becomes even further away. (BTW, aren't people writing that shit simply bigging up their Oz cars and trying to justify their own buying behavior)

My story is about one thing, the "hope" that comes from somebody proving you can buy a great car for far less than everybody says you need to pay. If you do all the right things, research the car properly and get it inspected by somebody who really knows these cars, you too can be driving around in a car that is as good as any Oz delivered car, for a significant discount. So if you can't afford an Oz delivered car, you can have exactly the same experience with no risk at all for far less money. It is a message that seems to resonate with a fair number of people, but they are nervous because if they make the wrong choice, it will bite them. That's why people contact me - they want to understand what got me comfortable with the car so I could make the decision to buy.

Talking specifically about RHD converted cars, they are more problematic to buy than most. There are a fair number out there that have been done anywhere between average and really badly. Luckily, it is even easier to check how well it has been done than it is to thoroughly check for rust and we have all seen pictures of the horror stories. But there are also ones that have been converted to very high standards and there is absolutely nothing wrong with those cars. they drive the same, they look the same and unless you happen to be very well versed in such matters, you are hard pressed to tell the difference.

When good converted cars do come up, they actually sell very quickly. When average to poor one show up, they don't sell and have to be given away. The funny thing is, talking to a fair number about it, people will actually pay a bit over the odds for a good one, because they realise it is that, or no 911 ownership. Their risk is that if they have to sell quickly, there might not be somebody with the same mindset around at that point. But over a 5 year view, I don't see how you can go wrong. I took that view. I started looking for the right car about a year ago, found it after 4 months of looking and in the time since then, I have not seen any other car I would rather have bought. Very occasionally, having read stuff on thus forum, I get the "regrets" at buying a converted car, but then I go and wash it, have a good look at it and go for a drive and realise that I have a car as good as most, that gives me exactly the same experience as all others and I have managed to get it for a substantial discount. I have a car that will appreciate at the same percentage rate as any other 3.2.

So i am sorry if it came over as talking up my car when what I was doing was trying to show an alternative viewpoint that brings ownership opportunities to people who otherwise wouldn't buy.

 

[Arnage]

Hi Simon, have you posted any pictures of your car?

If not, please post as I would love to see it. This could even extend the queue of buyers!

Back to "Market watch" I was looking at all the 3.2's on Carsales at the asks of the sellers & this question came to me:

Who out of all the 3.2 owners on this forum would pay north of $100k never mind getting upto $180k for one of these cars & if you would, why? & if you wouldn't, why?

[Al]

Imports are the best because I have one. Pot stirred.

I bet if you cracked open the battery tray panel on some oz ones you'd find some rust. Battery gas and leaks still happen in oz ones.

I'm personally fascinated by chasing history so my UK car is providing me with years of fun and information is flowing in. I'd probably be bored with an Aus one with perfect history by now and looking at something else. I've managed to save a 911 with rust repairs and piece together a decent amount of its history and its giving me a good feeling.

Who knows.. one day I might be thanked for saving a UK example and they'll want it back over there.

(btw SC owner here.. not a 3.2.. too expensive for me)

Edited 21January, 2017 by Al

[FAP911]

Hi Simon, have you posted any pictures of your car?

If not, please post as I would love to see it. This could even extend the queue of buyers!

Back to "Market watch" I was looking at all the 3.2's on Carsales at the asks of the sellers & this question came to me:

Who out of all the 3.2 owners on this forum would pay north of $100k never mind getting upto $180k for one of these cars & if you would, why? & if you wouldn't, why?

I'm biased but I still think the G series offers a great package of looks, enough performance, and relatively cheap to maintain. My first real sports car was an 84 Carrera which I then sold. Having then had a Ferrari 355 and a 328 I soon came to realise they didn't offer me double the fun for double the cost in purchase and maintenance. ( Although 355 sounded insane ) 

So full circle back to another Carrera and I'm happy. Last year Total 911 magazine had a panel of UK Porsche Specialists pick the most collectible 911 - Needless to say the 3.2 rated very highly across the group.

The only cars that I've recently had that I enjoy as much as the 3.2 were my Healey 100/4's believe it or not

Edited 21January, 2017 by FAP911
add word

[npvpositive]

 

Who out of all the 3.2 owners on this forum would pay north of $100k never mind getting up to $180k for one of these cars & if you would, why? & if you wouldn't, why?

The same thing happened to the long-hood Porsches over a 5 year period . . . at first owners couldn't believe that their old cars could be worth $100,000 . . . and then $150,000 and so on.  Ten years ago you could have picked up a 73RS for $100k  . . . now it's a million dollar car.  

It really does just come down to supply and demand.  Remember when everyone turned up their noses at the 964?  They were literally $40k cars, and then as time passed and tastes changed it became one of the more desirable Porsche models . . . and a clean low km C2 is now a $120k-$150k proposition.   

 To me the question is whether demand for the 3.2 is likely to stay flat (relative to other cars that the same buyers might choose), grow, or decline. If a person who wants a good 73 long-hood or a good 964 C2 is happy to pay more than $100,000 then I don't see why there should be any issue or raised eyebrows at paying over $100,000 for a good 3.2.

[AL911]

I saw it in March last year.

Originally an Irish car.

No service history after 5,000 miles (as the ad said) so impossible to tell what the mileage really was.

To me it just looked tired and like it had been driven but not really cared for.

hasn't been cared for at all. they stated a re-spray but that doesn't stack up and the rubbers are still original and poorly fitted

[AL911]

Without wishing to discuss exact figures, as I said above, the sort of level we are talking about is something like $40k less than it would sell for as an Oz delivered car, or about a 3rd less. Besides it being a really good spec and people liking the modifications done (suspension, ride height etc), you also need to know the back story, which is why people like the car. First there is the conversion, done by the Porsche factory which is rare (actually the only one I can find out about). Then, for the last 14 years, it has been maintained by PR Technology and had a lot spent on it. PR then bought it for themselves and one of the directors used it. It's had the gearbox rebuilt, good leak down numbers and nothing to worry about on the PPI. The funny thing is that it has a certain level of patina which people seem to like, because they feel they can actually use it without worrying about anything. overall, there is a degree of honesty about the car you don't always see in cars like this.

Every time I mention I am thinking about buying another car, I get offers. I also get regular pm's and phone calls from people asking advice on car because they are looking for 3.2's for around $80k, which they realise means an import or converted car, but that is their budget and they don't want earlier cars (even SC's). The problem is that many imports and converted cars have rather dodgy histories, so price alone isn't enough to sell them.

I also disagree that engine and gearbox rebuilds add very much value to any car. I haven't spotted any difference in price between a good car with low leak down numbers and one with a rebuilt engine. Same with the gearbox, although an average 915 will drag the value down. i would suggest that most of the cars that have sold for top end money by tghe likes of CTS and Duttons haven't had rebuilds.

But what really determines the price is the market and it rarely gets it that wrong. We can have our views and prejudices and these infuence what we think of the market. If you are in the Oz delivered camp and are suspicious of converted cars, you probably aren't in a good position to say what somebody who is OK with imports and converted cars will pay. Same the other way around. I am probably not the best person to be valuing top end Oz delivered cars.

ok I'm tired of the carrot-dangling around "I might sell" etc. So you and I agree on a price, go and do what you want to it including a SF delete, and if it's in bad-taste (very unlikely) we can agree on a discount for that mod - but you don't need to spend all the money taking the rest of it back to original. How is this not a sensible approach? 

[SimonN]

I love your tensity, AL911. You don't know how close i came to calling you a few weeks ago when I thought my dream car was on the market. I was discussing it with the Sydney Crew over an early coffee at the tramsheds, they said go for it and Jad said you would be delighted. Turned out the car was not what i hoped and it was removed from the market! Aren't I a bastard for telling you that  Since then, I have actually come to love my car even more. My lusting for a long hood backdate has eased, particularly when you work out what tasty mods you can do for that money that would make the car really special.

Which leads me to the real point of my post, which isn't just to tease Al! I think of all the cars, the 3.2 is the ideal base for a hot rod. besides being the last car before "nanny interference", it is easy to increase the power by a number of routes and can be taken to 3.5l easily. It's got enough other features, such as the bigger disks, that puts it ahead of the SC for this purpose, while the 3.0C's are too valuable and the 2.7's need a different engine if you are going for power. It's pretty easy to put the cars on a diet. When you go to long hoods, for many, they are now too valuable to hot rod. 964's are also good for hot rodding, but that's a different type of car and i believe appeals to a different crowd.

This is another reason people like the 3.2's and it adds another group of potential buyers. Other groups include those who want the last of the IB's and/or last without driver aids. Then there are those (misguided ) who want the G50. Some even prefer the bigger air vents! So, despite there probably not being a lot of difference between the 3.2 and SC when driving, other factors mean that the 3.2's are in bigger demand.

[SC 3.2]

What is the better buy then...a 1982- 204 hp SC or an  86 -207 hp 3.2 Carrera ? The hi-po SC has a zingier top end whilst the 3.2 has stronger bottom end torque but both look identical and both, in my humble opinion, have the nicer 915 box  

According to some reports the SC is up to 50kg lighter.

The catch 22 is the Carrera is $20k more. which would you prefer?

[Arnage]

Only Al has given an answer to the question.

If you would, why?

If you wouldn't, why?

Personally for a stock 3.2 driver (most that are for sale at this time fit that catorgory ) I would not put that much coin into one. Firstly, at that price point your car choices increase massively, and for half that you can be into a good Boxster,Cayman,996, even a 997 all of which will muller a  3.2. They may have a bit more to drop but not much & that will be made up by maint savings. Some might say this is missing the point of the "Air Cooled magic" & I get that, but there is a point where average Joe (who used to buy these) has to look at the dollars & think is this the best use of my hard earned, for what will be in most cases a weekend toy. I don't think they are rare enough or good enough to be that kind of money. Don't get me wrong, I love them, it's just my view that they are asking too much money at present, for sure they should get to that price point & probably more but not now. 

So, that's my answer. Not "the" answer, just an answer.

 

 

[MR901]

Both are fantastic. If I had to chose one for a Sunday drive I'd take the SC. To my taste they are more engaging to drive & feel lighter....if however I was driving to work every day I'd take the 3.2 & let the torque make it an easier drive. I think it depends on your intended use....

[Al]

3.2's are computerised aren't they (?) SC's last of the mechanicals.

Maybe this thread is going off track.

 

[Tit]

There must be enough data and sheer volume of conversation in these Porsche forums to write a weighty thesis about market psychology.

It's astonishing how much this topic is talked about.

[Al]

Steering this one back..

Why isn't someone loving this one? Needs a good home and looks a good price. Hey I could afford that but would prefer my SC triple black and better the devil you know I guess being UK.

still think it deserves an inspection and not an instant dismissal.

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-Carrera-1984/SSE-AD-4426529

[SimonN]

Steering this one back..

Why isn't someone loving this one? Needs a good home and looks a good price. Hey I could afford that but would prefer my SC triple black and better the devil you know I guess being UK.

still think it deserves an inspection and not an instant dismissal.

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-Carrera-1984/SSE-AD-4426529

At the risk of being told I nit pick with others but not my own.........

For me, its the colour and in particular, the matching wheels. I don't know why, it just doesn't sit well with me. When you flick through a set of photos, you get a "feeling" and in each photo, there is something that puts doubt in my mind. So, besides the colour, I don't like the taco conversion and am suspicious about the miles/kms. The seats look a little too worn for me and I don't like light coloured dash pads. I also have a thing about engine bay sound pads. It's probably unfair, but ones that are in that state make me wonder about how well the car ha been maintained and what other minor, non essential things haven't been done.

All of that might be very unfair, but when I first saw the car, my immediate reaction is that it wouldn't sell quickly. Yes, it might be worth a cll to find out more about teh sevicing and who has looked after it. That can change opinions pretty quickly.

[scashin]

Steering this one back..

Why isn't someone loving this one? Needs a good home and looks a good price. Hey I could afford that but would prefer my SC triple black and better the devil you know I guess being UK.

still think it deserves an inspection and not an instant dismissal.

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-Carrera-1984/SSE-AD-4426529

Interesting question.  It has dropped price three times.  If I was in the market I'd probably get a PPI done on it.

[Peter M]

Anyway back to the market!

Autohaus have just listed two that are worth a look:  '88 with 241,000km that will need engine work eventually for $89k and a '89 UK import for $99k.

Both present very nicely.

http://autohaushamilton.com.au/porsche-sales/porsches-for-sale

 

 

Edited 22January, 2017 by Peter M