jman1974 Posted 22November, 2022 Report Share Posted 22November, 2022 44 minutes ago, mystro said: This is a UK import. Yes! it is a UK import - and maybe it will just sit there at that price.... BUT I can right now, trade or sell my very high mileage 4 GTS Cab and instead buy a very similar (to the one listed) 997.2 Manual S coupe same age, lower mileage at 98,000km right now - for £38,000 (of course i will get it fully inspected and reported on by a Porsche Pro and make sure all the service records are in order) - but there are a handful of cars in the UK like this at around this price so its not a one-off dog car - so shipped with all GST, Duties and taxes paid - total landed cost would be AUD$79,000! - so lets say this persons ask at $160k for their UK import is too much....and so I have to come down a further circa 20% and call it $130k - theres still a $50k profit in the car!......and yeah maybe I would be waiting for a while (Id be ok with that) - or maybe not at that price!? Maybe I still cant sell it and have to drop to sub $100k (worst case) - to try and sell it quick ? Point is i'd have to sell it for less than AUD$80k to be losing money and I cant see that happening. Maybe I will be proved wrong.... And can I say...thats the point with the garden variety of 997, 911's - anything more 'desirable' such as GT2, GT3, Turbo commands a very premium price tag in the UK too....so when you convert the purchase price to AUD and try to export those cars the LCT kills a big chunk of the profit....but at a purchase price such as above at the equivalent of about AUD$60,000 there is little to no LCT to pay....so I have no doubt that there is a sweet spot of the right 911 bought at the right price - where it will return a decent profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC9911 Posted 22November, 2022 Report Share Posted 22November, 2022 1 hour ago, jman1974 said: Yes! it is a UK import - and maybe it will just sit there at that price.... BUT I can right now, trade or sell my very high mileage 4 GTS Cab and instead buy a very similar (to the one listed) 997.2 Manual S coupe same age, lower mileage at 98,000km right now - for £38,000 (of course i will get it fully inspected and reported on by a Porsche Pro and make sure all the service records are in order) - but there are a handful of cars in the UK like this at around this price so its not a one-off dog car - so shipped with all GST, Duties and taxes paid - total landed cost would be AUD$79,000! - so lets say this persons ask at $160k for their UK import is too much....and so I have to come down a further circa 20% and call it $130k - theres still a $50k profit in the car!......and yeah maybe I would be waiting for a while (Id be ok with that) - or maybe not at that price!? Maybe I still cant sell it and have to drop to sub $100k (worst case) - to try and sell it quick ? Point is i'd have to sell it for less than AUD$80k to be losing money and I cant see that happening. Maybe I will be proved wrong.... And can I say...thats the point with the garden variety of 997, 911's - anything more 'desirable' such as GT2, GT3, Turbo commands a very premium price tag in the UK too....so when you convert the purchase price to AUD and try to export those cars the LCT kills a big chunk of the profit....but at a purchase price such as above at the equivalent of about AUD$60,000 there is little to no LCT to pay....so I have no doubt that there is a sweet spot of the right 911 bought at the right price - where it will return a decent profit. This my opinion only, please feel free to disregard but I think you are being really, really optimistic. I agree they all came out of the same factory etc, etc, but you need to deal with the perception in the local market (wether it’s true or not) UK import= unknown history, high mileage is not your friend, car is not unique, we are in a rising interest rate position, toys go first in high inflation. IMHO sell in the UK & bring your cash here. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleazius Posted 22November, 2022 Report Share Posted 22November, 2022 Pricing online is still inflated because of the amount of money that was pumped into the economy during covid, and the lack of new cars that were available here. Sellers aren't yet ready to accept the new reality but buyers are thin on the ground. We just went past 400 x 911s listed on carsales alone for the first time in years. Supply keeps going up, not a lot sells. Personally I'd wait for the share market to bottom in 6-12 months, put the cash that you wanted to spend on the car into VAS or something similar (low risk), by that point take a 10% yield and who knows how much capital growth over the following 2-3 years. You'll be miles ahead. In the mean time find a car that you love to drive that might be difficult to find here, and bring that back with you. If you end up doing your arse, at least it is a car you can keep and enjoy. JWM and t888 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman1974 Posted 22November, 2022 Report Share Posted 22November, 2022 thanks for your thoughts and opinions all - will keep it all in mind as I make a decision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffy Posted 22November, 2022 Report Share Posted 22November, 2022 11 hours ago, jman1974 said: For instance I can buy a nicely spec'd 2011, 997.2 Coupe C2S PDK - with good providence, good service and maintenance history with equivalent of 79,000 kilometres on the clock for £43,000. £ is pretty weak at present, so to ship that and land it paying all duties, GST, LCT it will cost a total of about AUD$98,000 equivalent....that seams to me to be a pretty cheap 911...and I'm thinking there must be a reasonable profit in that - even if I do have to price it very very well and it takes me a while to move. .... yes thanks sjm, I know that...hence why I have just bought the 981 GTS I want to bring back in a years time and will sell / trade my 4 GTS for something more broadly desirable ASAP (next few weeks) Just did the personal import from the UK, not to flip (i put some 25k kms in a year on it in the UK and went end to end, goodwood, etc) but as i had redone the cars interior and other updates which if i tried to do here would be scary $. My purchase price was way lower then that, off the dock set me back A$17K and then another $3K at vic roads after they took the import value for duties etc as it not actually worth anything until its in the system here. You can only import 1 car in your name every 5 years. As noted must own for 12 months, show use, garaged near you, etc etc. Use an importer as the paperwork is a nightmare. If you import for your own use and you intended to buy you could be way ahead, its possible to make a profit - i expect i could as my purchase price was rock bottom but most car options i looked at struggled to make sense. From my calcs when i ran the numbers a year or so back a car at 43K GBP will set you back $105K landed. For that to work at what i consider money to make it worth it, ie 10% ROI it needs to be selling at $140K+ for Aus delivered cars (assumed a 15% clip for a UK car). So it might work, but for a safety net get a manual, i have a pdk and enjoy the car as its damn faster then me but its not the rare one. sjm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman1974 Posted 22November, 2022 Report Share Posted 22November, 2022 8 hours ago, Taffy said: Just did the personal import from the UK, not to flip (i put some 25k kms in a year on it in the UK and went end to end, goodwood, etc) but as i had redone the cars interior and other updates which if i tried to do here would be scary $. My purchase price was way lower then that, off the dock set me back A$17K and then another $3K at vic roads after they took the import value for duties etc as it not actually worth anything until its in the system here. You can only import 1 car in your name every 5 years. As noted must own for 12 months, show use, garaged near you, etc etc. Use an importer as the paperwork is a nightmare. If you import for your own use and you intended to buy you could be way ahead, its possible to make a profit - i expect i could as my purchase price was rock bottom but most car options i looked at struggled to make sense. From my calcs when i ran the numbers a year or so back a car at 43K GBP will set you back $105K landed. For that to work at what i consider money to make it worth it, ie 10% ROI it needs to be selling at $140K+ for Aus delivered cars (assumed a 15% clip for a UK car). So it might work, but for a safety net get a manual, i have a pdk and enjoy the car as its damn faster then me but its not the rare one. Thanks Taffy - good info and tips yes have got my importer lined up and already advising me... And I understand that I can only bring one each five years...but will prob bring one out in my wifes name and one in mine. I agree on your landed cost from a year of so back...I have it at $98k at today's exchange rate for a $43k car but the pound was prob a bit stronger against the Aussie dollar 12 months or so ago Have got my eye on a 2009 997.2 C2S manual Coupe that I looked at today and it is immaculate - still got to get it fully inspected but I suspect it will fair well - it has a wad of detailed service history - not just service book stamps and has some nice options too - I can buy at £32,500! and will only put weekend miles on it over next 12 months. My calcs at current exchange rate (which of course may change in next 12 months - but I only see the pound getting a bit weaker if anything) is that this car at that purchase price will cost AUD$70k landed - plus state stamp duty for rego - so even if I am really conservative on sale value there has to be some decent profit in it - its worth a shot I think - and hey, whatever the outcome - I get to enjoy a manual 911 for a year or two alongside by 981 GTS Boxster - which is PDK and yes I love the PDK too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Kay Posted 22November, 2022 Report Share Posted 22November, 2022 Something I've noticed on the last 2 cars shown. Are sunroofs not standard in UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t888 Posted 22November, 2022 Report Share Posted 22November, 2022 41 minutes ago, P-Kay said: Something I've noticed on the last 2 cars shown. Are sunroofs not standard in UK? Correct, at least for 996 997. While a sunroof delete can be optioned here it is usually a sign of an import. UK imports usually seem to have extended leather interiors which I think is a nice touch. P-Kay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Kay Posted 22November, 2022 Report Share Posted 22November, 2022 1 minute ago, t888 said: extended leather interiors agreed....much better than the standard plastic we seem to spec/leave std?!! t888 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleazius Posted 22November, 2022 Report Share Posted 22November, 2022 Options prices here are double what they are in the UK in general. Extended leather at least in a GT3 usually requires as many as 4-5 individual options that will set you back 20k. Leather seats alone on the 991.2 was almost 8k. I winced ticking that box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smit2100 Posted 22November, 2022 Report Share Posted 22November, 2022 1 hour ago, jman1974 said: Thanks Taffy - good info and tips yes have got my importer lined up and already advising me... And I understand that I can only bring one each five years...but will prob bring one out in my wifes name and one in mine. I agree on your landed cost from a year of so back...I have it at $98k at today's exchange rate for a $43k car but the pound was prob a bit stronger against the Aussie dollar 12 months or so ago Have got my eye on a 2009 997.2 C2S manual Coupe that I looked at today and it is immaculate - still got to get it fully inspected but I suspect it will fair well - it has a wad of detailed service history - not just service book stamps and has some nice options too - I can buy at £32,500! and will only put weekend miles on it over next 12 months. My calcs at current exchange rate (which of course may change in next 12 months - but I only see the pound getting a bit weaker if anything) is that this car at that purchase price will cost AUD$70k landed - plus state stamp duty for rego - so even if I am really conservative on sale value there has to be some decent profit in it - its worth a shot I think - and hey, whatever the outcome - I get to enjoy a manual 911 for a year or two alongside by 981 GTS Boxster - which is PDK and yes I love the PDK too! Hi Help me understand the Base cost number for duties you have allowed for in arriving at your ROM cost calculation to land a 32k gbp documented purchase buy in the UK is Aud 70k landed before its parked up pending oz number plates. One of the most engaging discussions I have had at a car meet was a with a young bloke who was based in the UK circa start of last decade and home for Chrissy. The stair case summary speech was I have one of the cheapest outlays of any car here to today ( my opinion and one of the rarest on the day). The Rs2 audi was purchased for 4000gbp and landed it for 11000 aud in Melbourne. His import takeaway message was very easy to base the oz customs duties value on his written purchase agreement. Good luck finding a local/ even OS market value to use other than his written purchase agreement when it came to duties base value. He then proceeded to say another 2 rs2'sare back in the UK. One registered and one destined for a seacontainer after a far bit of wrenching and pallet packing. What about this one every 5 years limit. But its already gazetted on the sevs list and just in case, my partner technically owns / brought the second one back in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffy Posted 23November, 2022 Report Share Posted 23November, 2022 $7.5K Shipping Vat 4% Duty 5% VAT 4% Pound to AUD 1.82 Discount factor for import 80% GBP UK purchase price Purchase price in AUD AUD imported cost AUD Regoed Cost Min Carsales AUD LCT Rego AU$ Import Costs $AU £ 16,000 $ 29,091 $ 41,164 $ 43,727 $ 51,455 $ - $ 2,563 $ 12,073 £ 17,000 $ 30,909 $ 43,336 $ 45,990 $ 54,170 $ - $ 2,654 $ 12,427 £ 18,000 $ 32,727 $ 45,509 $ 48,254 $ 56,886 $ - $ 2,745 $ 12,782 £ 19,000 $ 34,545 $ 47,682 $ 50,518 $ 59,602 $ - $ 2,837 $ 13,136 £ 20,000 $ 36,364 $ 49,855 $ 52,782 $ 62,318 $ - $ 2,928 $ 13,491 £ 21,000 $ 38,182 $ 52,027 $ 55,046 $ 65,034 $ - $ 3,019 $ 13,845 £ 22,000 $ 40,000 $ 54,200 $ 57,310 $ 67,750 $ - $ 3,110 $ 14,200 £ 23,000 $ 41,818 $ 56,373 $ 59,574 $ 70,466 $ - $ 3,202 $ 14,555 £ 24,000 $ 43,636 $ 58,545 $ 61,838 $ 73,182 $ - $ 3,293 $ 14,909 £ 25,000 $ 45,455 $ 60,718 $ 64,102 $ 75,898 $ - $ 3,384 $ 15,264 £ 26,000 $ 47,273 $ 62,891 $ 66,366 $ 78,614 $ - $ 3,475 $ 15,618 £ 27,000 $ 49,091 $ 65,064 $ 68,630 $ 81,330 $ - $ 3,567 $ 15,973 £ 28,000 $ 50,909 $ 67,236 $ 70,894 $ 84,045 $ - $ 3,658 $ 16,327 £ 29,000 $ 52,727 $ 69,525 $ 73,215 $ 86,906 $ 116 $ 3,691 $ 16,797 £ 30,000 $ 54,545 $ 72,346 $ 75,858 $ 90,433 $ 765 $ 3,512 $ 17,801 £ 31,000 $ 56,364 $ 75,168 $ 78,560 $ 93,960 $ 1,413 $ 3,392 $ 18,804 £ 32,000 $ 58,182 $ 77,990 $ 81,680 $ 97,487 $ 2,062 $ 3,691 $ 19,808 £ 33,000 $ 60,000 $ 80,811 $ 86,045 $ 101,014 $ 2,711 $ 5,234 $ 20,811 £ 34,000 $ 61,818 $ 83,633 $ 87,623 $ 104,541 $ 3,360 $ 3,990 $ 21,815 £ 35,000 $ 63,636 $ 86,454 $ 90,863 $ 108,068 $ 4,009 $ 4,409 $ 22,818 £ 36,000 $ 65,455 $ 89,276 $ 94,043 $ 111,595 $ 4,658 $ 4,767 $ 23,821 £ 37,000 $ 67,273 $ 92,098 $ 96,447 $ 115,122 $ 5,307 $ 4,349 $ 24,825 £ 38,000 $ 69,091 $ 94,919 $ 97,474 $ 118,649 $ 5,956 $ 2,555 $ 25,828 £ 39,000 $ 70,909 $ 97,741 $ 101,910 $ 122,176 $ 6,605 $ 4,169 $ 26,832 £ 40,000 $ 72,727 $ 100,562 $ 105,533 $ 125,703 $ 7,253 $ 4,971 $ 27,835 £ 41,000 $ 74,545 $ 103,384 $ 105,969 $ 129,230 $ 7,902 $ 2,585 $ 28,839 £ 42,000 $ 76,364 $ 106,206 $ 109,478 $ 132,757 $ 8,551 $ 3,273 $ 29,842 £ 43,000 $ 78,182 $ 109,027 $ 113,065 $ 136,284 $ 9,200 $ 4,038 $ 30,846 £ 44,000 $ 80,000 $ 111,849 $ 115,474 $ 139,811 $ 9,849 $ 3,625 $ 31,849 £ 45,000 $ 81,818 $ 114,671 $ 119,317 $ 143,338 $ 10,498 $ 4,646 $ 32,852 £ 46,000 $ 83,636 $ 117,492 $ 121,901 $ 146,865 $ 11,147 $ 4,409 $ 33,856 £ 47,000 $ 85,455 $ 120,314 $ 125,200 $ 150,392 $ 11,796 $ 4,887 $ 34,859 £ 48,000 $ 87,273 $ 123,135 $ 127,990 $ 153,919 $ 12,444 $ 4,854 $ 35,863 £ 49,000 $ 89,091 $ 125,957 $ 130,963 $ 157,446 $ 13,093 $ 5,006 $ 36,866 £ 50,000 $ 90,909 $ 128,779 $ 133,128 $ 160,973 $ 13,742 $ 4,349 $ 37,870 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman1974 Posted 23November, 2022 Report Share Posted 23November, 2022 9 hours ago, smit2100 said: Hi Help me understand the Base cost number for duties you have allowed for in arriving at your ROM cost calculation to land a 32k gbp documented purchase buy in the UK is Aud 70k landed before its parked up pending oz number plates. One of the most engaging discussions I have had at a car meet was a with a young bloke who was based in the UK circa start of last decade and home for Chrissy. The stair case summary speech was I have one of the cheapest outlays of any car here to today ( my opinion and one of the rarest on the day). The Rs2 audi was purchased for 4000gbp and landed it for 11000 aud in Melbourne. His import takeaway message was very easy to base the oz customs duties value on his written purchase agreement. Good luck finding a local/ even OS market value to use other than his written purchase agreement when it came to duties base value. He then proceeded to say another 2 rs2'sare back in the UK. One registered and one destined for a seacontainer after a far bit of wrenching and pallet packing. What about this one every 5 years limit. But its already gazetted on the sevs list and just in case, my partner technically owns / brought the second one back in the UK. Taffy's sheet above is good.... The rules basically are that if you are an Oz citizen returning to Australia to live after an extended period living overseas that you can bring in one car per person as personal effects - each person will only be given Vehicle Import approval for one car in any 5 year period. you must have owned that car and used it for 12 months prior to applying for import approval and then shipping - but as I am returning with my family - my wife is entitled to bring a car back as is my 23 year old daughter as well - if we wanted to do that I'm working off the exchange rate of $1.76 to the £ So for customs valuation purposes you need to be able to show your purchase docs verifying what you paid for the car and potentially bank transactions to back that up (if you cant show that then customs will bring in their own valuer who will value the car on the Aust market value and then of course the applied taxes in the case of a car like this would explode) But having bought the car for £32,500 in the UK - this equates to $57,200 purchase value (which I will have full documentation for) - so I have been told by the importer that this is what will be what is used for valuation I've been quoted $4000 for the shipping of the car (thats transport from the UK to Port Kembla and includes port costs in Australia) 5% Duty on $57,200 = $2860 GST = $6406 (purchase price in AUD, plus duty, plus shipping) x 10% Landed cost = $70,466 plus state stamp duty for rego etc You would then pay LCT based on the LANDED cost of the car - but as the above landed cost is below the LCT threshold - there is no LCT to pay on this 997. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 23November, 2022 Report Share Posted 23November, 2022 So you buy a car in the UK, yet you have to pay GST on the purchase price when it gets here? 😳 What a fkn rort that is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-S Posted 23November, 2022 Report Share Posted 23November, 2022 9 hours ago, LeeM said: So you buy a car in the UK, yet you have to pay GST on the purchase price when it gets here? 😳 What a fkn rort that is! I may have shouted about that when we brought our cars over, especially as we’d owned one for 15 years at that point. My other car had been mine for 3 years, so I essentially paid tax for it twice. Still cheaper than buying here though. Also if the car’s being brought over as the personal import owned for over a year, it’s perfectly acceptable to ignore what was paid for it originally, just get an accredited motor valuer to value it on arrival. That will be considerably cheaper. LeeM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight 911 Posted 23November, 2022 Report Share Posted 23November, 2022 I went through this in 2016. 997.2 C2S. cost me $24,000 on the road in VIC. Aus cars were circa $150,000 at the time. I had owned it from almost new and had toured Europe so was very attached to it. Kept it for another 3 years once back. I pretty much broke even after trading it. It’s not really worth the risk. I think the risk is even higher now with fluctuating exchange rates and values. Buy a good investment when back here if you can afford it. I wouldn’t have been able to afford it’s Australian equivalent back in 2016 so it all relative Good luck! LeeM and sleazius 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoHeadsTas Posted 9February, 2023 Report Share Posted 9February, 2023 This looks to be a pretty good looking jigger, and perhaps now more reasonably priced? Missing service history for a few years, and higher mileage, but the white is stunning, and I do like those wheels (had them on our 987.1 Boxster). https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/porsche-911-2007/sse-ad-13628944/?utm_campaign=price-alert&utm_source=sfmc&utm_medium=email&csn_atid=3be2aec4-359e-4615-9363-d8b603ee31bf Almost tempted to explore further.... Shedpest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t888 Posted 9February, 2023 Report Share Posted 9February, 2023 37 minutes ago, TwoHeadsTas said: This looks to be a pretty good looking jigger, and perhaps now more reasonably priced? Missing service history for a few years, and higher mileage, but the white is stunning, and I do like those wheels (had them on our 987.1 Boxster). https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/porsche-911-2007/sse-ad-13628944/?utm_campaign=price-alert&utm_source=sfmc&utm_medium=email&csn_atid=3be2aec4-359e-4615-9363-d8b603ee31bf Almost tempted to explore further.... It has been up since October. It has a sports exhaust which is nice. I think that pre covid this would've been sub $100k (given the KMs). IMO $120k is 997.2 territory now. TwoHeadsTas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911 Posted 9February, 2023 Report Share Posted 9February, 2023 26 minutes ago, t888 said: It has been up since October. It has a sports exhaust which is nice. I think that pre covid this would've been sub $100k (given the KMs). IMO $120k is 997.2 territory now. Ye. I reckon it's still too high for the kms. Closer to $100k would be on the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC08 Posted 9February, 2023 Report Share Posted 9February, 2023 I know of a manual 997.2 C2S for sale if you’re interested. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kov Posted 9February, 2023 Report Share Posted 9February, 2023 It’s not an S however this seems great value, manual coupe, 137k for 79k that’s pre-covid money! https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2005-porsche-911-carrera-997-manual-my06/SSE-AD-14467957?pageSource=details&id=SSE-AD-14467957 KeyboardWarrior77, Spets87 and Yeatesy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 9February, 2023 Report Share Posted 9February, 2023 Or a scam. Generic Carsales descriptions or a lack of are a good sign it might be kov 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blockman Posted 11February, 2023 Report Share Posted 11February, 2023 I called the guy about the 997 Carrerra and he seems legit, I think it will be sold this weekend and unfortunately I am interstate so will miss out sjm and JWM 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLD Posted 13February, 2023 Report Share Posted 13February, 2023 On 11/02/2023 at 23:15, blockman said: I called the guy about the 997 Carrerra and he seems legit, I think it will be sold this weekend and unfortunately I am interstate so will miss out Showing as still available surprisingly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kov Posted 14February, 2023 Report Share Posted 14February, 2023 On 11/02/2023 at 23:15, blockman said: I called the guy about the 997 Carrerra and he seems legit, I think it will be sold this weekend and unfortunately I am interstate so will miss out Build some friendships on here and fellow PFA’ers will gladly go and check out a car for you to avoid toy missing out. Usually I believe it’s a case of beer as a thank you blockman, Yeatesy and TwoHeadsTas 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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