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981 Cayman/Boxster Market Watch / How many manual 981CS's were delivered (ANSWERED)


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How did you find the increase from the 987.1 BS (3.2L?) vs your Spyder 3.8L? I imagine it would similar to the 0.7L jump from the base 981 to the S, a nice increase in torque and possible more up top. Makes sense that you could wait 3 years. Makes it all the more sweeter that you got a manual and that it's so rare, and I'm guessing you will hold on to it and enjoy it for many more years to come. Have you found that the manual ones have held their value more so than the PDKs, even though there's much less demand for manuals these days, or is it about the same?
What a drive of a lifetime from Brissy down to Sydney! Love the vivid description - the ragtop is indeed very good repelling the rain. My reference to playing chicken was when I had a Boxster over a rainy weekend and I was constantly putting the top up and down ;) 


 

My 987.1 BoxS was the 3.4L version which is the same capacity as the 987.2 Spyder but with a very slight uplift in performance via a factory tune and no IMS issues (Direct Injection Engine) - torque delivery is more even with the Spyder too - it quite forgiving - almost like driving an AT. The Spyder being a lighter car with aluminum doors, LSD and lowered tuned suspension, it is noticeably better on the twisties - a lot flatter with hardly any body roll. With my BoxS, you could still feel the weight of the back in the corners. With the Spyder can make corrections very easily mid corner/turn. Steering is telepathic. In some ways the 987.1 BoxS was more of hoot to drive, it just didn't perform as well as the Spyder does, you have to concentrate on driving it more than the Spyder. While the Spyder flatters the driver esp in taking very tight turns, the LSD really helps in putting down the power through the turns. 

My Spyder is my last car. Porsche will probably never make anything like it - the newer cars will be better performers spec-wise but I doubt will be as sublime to drive with the many electronic systems dampening the experience (IMO of course). If I were to get another P car, it would be a long nose 911 or 912. 

Prices between MT and PDK 987.2 Spyders are similar in my research over the years. Always hovering between the low 100Ks and 120Ks. It is just that the MTs are very hard to come by esp in Carrera White.

 

Edited by Apogee
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Oh yeah, I like those apples!  Worth a look budget permitting.  Reminds me of one of my favorite 981 Cayman S vids with very similar spec car:- 

I would have loved to have seen black rims on that white GTS.    Nice one! I'd not seen that review and I've watched so many. The Chris Harris one was my favourite but this one gives it a great run for it's money. That Cayman S is pretty much specced like a GTS minus the black badging and front bumper isn't it? This would be a great ad for Porsche :P Watching this video feels like a bad idea as it is just showing me what I'm missing out on. Btw, is that your white 981 Spyder (?) in your avatar?

 

My 987.1 BoxS was the 3.4L version which is the same capacity as the 987.2 Spyder but with a very slight uplift in performance via a factory tune and no IMS issues (Direct Injection Engine) - torque delivery is more even with the Spyder too - it quite forgiving - almost like driving an AT. The Spyder being a lighter car with aluminum doors, LSD and lowered tuned suspension, it is noticeably better on the twisties - a lot flatter with hardly any body roll. With my BoxS, you could still feel the weight of the back in the corners. With the Spyder can make corrections very easily mid corner/turn. Steering is telepathic. In some ways the 987.1 BoxS was more of hoot to drive, it just didn't perform as well as the Spyder does, you have to concentrate on driving it more than the Spyder. While the Spyder flatters the driver esp in taking very tight turns, the LSD really helps in putting down the power through the turns. 

My Spyder is my last car. Porsche will probably never make anything like it - the newer cars will be better performers spec-wise but I doubt will be as sublime to drive with the many electronic systems dampening the experience (IMO of course). If I were to get another P car, it would be a long nose 911 or 912. 

Prices between MT and PDK 987.2 Spyders are similar in my research over the years. Always hovering between the low 100Ks and 120Ks. It is just that the MTs are very hard to come by esp in Carrera White.

Ah nice, I got a little confused with the engines as I thought all the 987.1 had the older and smaller engines with the IMS issues < 2009.  It really does sound like the 987.2 Spyder is your perfect car and glad to hear it's your last too :) You make it sound like the pick of all the Boxsters and Caymans :) Hope to get a chance to drive one some day. Thanks again for the insight into rare ownership, Apogee! With regards to Porsche's newer cars... well I do hope the 718 comes out with the rumoured GT4 RS or another Spyder in a flat 6 as opposed to the flat 4 but I doubt the steering will ever be the same as the 987 as the newer cars seem to take more and more feel away from the driver. Have you made any posts of pics of your Spyder which you can point me to? 

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Ah nice, I got a little confused with the engines as I thought all the 987.1 had the older and smaller engines with the IMS issues < 2009.  It really does sound like the 987.2 Spyder is your perfect car and glad to hear it's your last too :) You make it sound like the pick of all the Boxsters and Caymans :) Hope to get a chance to drive one some day. Thanks again for the insight into rare ownership, Apogee! With regards to Porsche's newer cars... well I do hope the 718 comes out with the rumoured GT4 RS or another Spyder in a flat 6 as opposed to the flat 4 but I doubt the steering will ever be the same as the 987 as the newer cars seem to take more and more feel away from the driver. Have you made any posts of pics of your Spyder which you can point me to? 

Pics can be found here: http://porscheforum.com.au/topic/9643-my-new-girl/

There was also a 987.2 Cayman R that was basically the Spyder with a metal roof. Everything else was the same otherwise. Having the same sheet metal as the normal Cayman S apart from a larger fixed spoiler, meant that it didn't stand out too much. That is why I believe they are fewer examples of them because noone saw the need to pay the premium -  making them even more of a rarity -  asking prices are usually the same as the Spyder - around $120K. With the exception of this owner however, who is asking too much for his. https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-Cayman-2011/SSE-AD-4657091/?Cr=0

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Pics can be found here: http://porscheforum.com.au/topic/9643-my-new-girl/

...around $120K. With the exception of this owner however, who is asking too much for his. https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-Cayman-2011/SSE-AD-4657091/?Cr=0

Apogee, your car is an absolute beauty! Well done! Having seen pics of your car and some more Boxsters/Caymans in white as of late, it has now come in as my preference after guards red! 

The R looks great too, havent really looked at them much but will keep an eye out. Interesting that the asking price on that ad is in the 2015/16 GTS price range... On that note, I'm also a little curious as to why so many 2015/16 GTSs and GT4s, some barely broken in, are up for sale already. The Porsche sales consultant I was chatting to said the owners wait ages for them to come in, often get too busy to drive or hardly end up driving it, then change their minds or trade up for a 911 or something like that. Wish i could do that lol :)

Edited by 981KMan
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On that note, I'm also a little curious as to why so many 2015/16 GTSs and GT4s, some barely broken in, are up for sale already. The Porsche sales consultant I was chatting to said the owners wait ages for them to come in, often get too busy to drive or hardly end up driving it, then change their minds or trade up for a 911 or something like that. Wish i could do that lol :)

Left out one reason - going for the quick flip $$$$$$$ - that aren't there!!

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I agree over capitalised on this one me thinks.  Keep watching and keep saving and when it does not sell offer $145K. Ceramic brakes were an overkill option to tick.  Love the red though.  Wheels are growing on me...

What about this one?

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-Cayman-2014/SSE-AD-4592138/?Cr=9

That is my car, and I guarantee that I won't be selling it for $145K.  And PCCB not worth it?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxXrDIevmlY

 

 

Edited by NBTBRV8
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Take it from me PCCB are not worth it? Unless you only drive on the street and you really really really hate brake dust. They simply are not up to being driven in a spirited or harder way and will not stop you any quicker. See my picture on the left for a stuffed one at 22,000klm

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Left out one reason - going for the quick flip $$$$$$$ - that aren't there!!

Might need to wait another 15 years :D Wonder if it would have been more likely with a Macan where people are having to wait over 6-8 months. 

 

See my picture on the left for a stuffed one at 22,000klm

:unsure: Damn... what happened there? 

 

That is my car, and I guarantee that I won't be selling it for $145K. 

Nor should you. It's a beauty and I hope you find the right buyer soon. Wish I had to means to get it and take a trip over to Tassie while I was at it ;) For the record, I wouldn't have lowballed you :D 

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:unsure: Damn... what happened there? 

 

 

Sorry for the slightly off topic rant but this PCCB info could be useful for anyone considering them.

PCCB tend to oxidize when over 400C so any driving that has them over this temperature is causing them to lose material. You determine how stuffed a PCCB is from its weight which is marked on them. The Pads deposit a protection layer on the friction surface itself so the disks do not get thinner due to oxidation and they are so hard wear is not a real issue. The oxidation or loss of material happens on the edges along the small cracks in the surface with the end result they turn into expensive sand paper with the hard ceramic friction surface only a small fraction of its original area.

Some photos

https://flic.kr/s/aHsk21XRpi

zoom in to see the surface structure. Hi Res can also be down loaded.

So if you actually use ? your PCCB you have this to look forward to. 

Note that the rotors have  built in over heat detectors in the form of 3 circles about 12mm in diameter. You can just make these out in some of the photos. If the material inside the circles is gone then they have been overheated. In my case the rotors have been operated within the upper limit. They did about $4000km of spirited driving. Or about $9/km.

 

Pics can be found here: http://porscheforum.com.au/topic/9643-my-new-girl/

There was also a 987.2 Cayman R that was basically the Spyder with a metal roof. Everything else was the same otherwise. Having the same sheet metal as the normal Cayman S apart from a larger fixed spoiler, meant that it didn't stand out too much. That is why I believe they are fewer examples of them because noone saw the need to pay the premium -  making them even more of a rarity -  asking prices are usually the same as the Spyder - around $120K. With the exception of this owner however, who is asking too much for his. https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-Cayman-2011/SSE-AD-4657091/?Cr=0

Thats a new one for my list. Have been keeping an eye on the 19 Caman R AU delivered. (But I am not sure everyone in the list was AU delivered) So far I have 15.

VIN  WP0ZZZ98ZCU791115 PDK black

VIN  WP0ZZZ98ZCU702004 PDK green

VIN  WP0ZZZ98ZCU791067 PDK green

VIN  WP0ZZZ98ZCU790141 PDK white

VIN  WP0ZZZ98ZCU790135 PDK black

VIN  WP0ZZZ98ZCU790095 PDK aqua blue

VIN  WP0ZZZ98ZCU790097 PDK white

VIN  WP0ZZZ98ZCU790197 PDK black

VIN  WP0ZZZ98ZCU790083 PDK red

VIN  WP0ZZZ98ZCS791309 PDK green

VIN  WP0ZZZ98ZCS791486 PDK green

VIN                                            PDK black (WA 1DQI-588 with turbo II wheels)

 

VIN  WP0ZZZ98ZCS791112 MAN red

VIN  WP0ZZZ98ZCS750101 MAN green

VIN  WP0ZZZ98ZCU790081 MAN green

One interesting thing is the different build locations.
Edited by Redracn
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Nor should you. It's a beauty and I hope you find the right buyer soon. Wish I had to means to get it and take a trip over to Tassie while I was at it ;) For the record, I wouldn't have lowballed you :D 

With all sincerity good luck, there certainly aren't many manuals around.  If the GTS numbers are anything to go by, ~10%.  So finding a manual with a half decent spec is going to be like winning the lottery.

 

PS: make sure you get a car with PSE, it transforms the car especially if it has Sports Chrono.

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PCCB tend to oxidize when over 400C so any driving that has them over this temperature is causing them to lose material.

In my case the rotors have been operated within the upper limit. They did about $4000km of spirited driving. Or about $9/km.

 

Thanks for the heads up - I'm sure it'll be useful for anyone considering. I guess one must pay to play. Possibly not the best option for those who do track days but may be fine for a street car as minimal brake dust sounds awfully appealing. 

 

With all sincerity good luck, there certainly aren't many manuals around.  If the GTS numbers are anything to go by, ~10%.  So finding a manual with a half decent spec is going to be like winning the lottery. PS: make sure you get a car with PSE, it transforms the car especially if it has Sports Chrono.

Thanks NBTBRB8. I think you're right about the manuals as over the last 4 months, only 6 out of 48 Caymans (4 base and 2 GTSs including yours and excluding GT4s) have been manual. And yeah, finding the one with the right spec is also the other side of the equation hence I'd be willing to consider retrofitting a PSE and the rims of my choice. I would love a GTS since it has the best 3 options IMO and I prefer not having the wing. What's your next car likely to be at this stage? 

Definitely agree about the PSE + Sports Chrono. I've driven a base Boxster PDK with no PSE vs a Boxster S with PSE in manual and it was already a very different experience. 
The 718 Boxster PDK I drove had both PSE and Sports Chrono and while not a flat 6, it was apparent there were almost 4 levels of exhaust note aggression, i.e. valves closed, valves open, valves open + sports mode, valves open + sports plus. I imagine this would be a lot of fun playing with all these combinations on a GTS/GT4. 


Oh and in case anyone was looking for a black manual Cayman (base) with PSE for $96k, standard rims, this one just popped up:
https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/_/SSE-AD-4663670?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert;PCAA

And there's a white 2014 Cayman S with PDK, PSE, PASM and Sports Chrono going for 120k with warranty... pretty good deal!  https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/SSE-AD-4582835?WT.seg_4=PriceAlert

Edited by 981KMan
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Thanks for the heads up - I'm sure it'll be useful for anyone considering. I guess one must pay to play. Possibly not the best option for those who do track days but may be fine for a street car as minimal brake dust sounds awfully appealing. 

 

Thanks NBTBRB8. I think you're right about the manuals as over the last 4 months, only 6 out of 48 Caymans (4 base and 2 GTSs including yours and excluding GT4s) have been manual. And yeah, finding the one with the right spec is also the other side of the equation hence I'd be willing to consider retrofitting a PSE and the rims of my choice. I would love a GTS since it has the best 3 options IMO and I prefer not having the wing. What's your next car likely to be at this stage? 

Definitely agree about the PSE + Sports Chrono. I've driven a base Boxster PDK with no PSE vs a Boxster S with PSE in manual and it was already a very different experience. The 718 Boxster PDK I drove had both PSE and Sports Chrono and while not a flat 6, it was apparent there were almost 4 levels of exhaust note aggression, i.e. valves closed, valves open, valves open + sports mode, valves open + sports plus. I imagine this would be a lot of fun playing with all these combinations on a GTS/GT4. 

Oh and in case anyone was looking for a black manual Cayman (base) with PSE, this one just popped up:
https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/_/SSE-AD-4663670?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert;PCAA

And there's a white 2014 Cayman S with PDK, PSE, PASM and Sports Chrono going for 120k with warranty... pretty good deal!  https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/SSE-AD-4582835?WT.seg_4=PriceAlert

Ceramics are fine for a street driven car with occasional track outings,  You can stuff a set of steel brakes quicker than ceramics, but ceramics are more resilient to a point, they feel great and give consistent braking performance.  Are they worth the extra money, probably not, but are they a better brake, most definitely.

I signed my contract on 1/12/15 when the GT4 was sold out and to be fair at the time I didn't want to spend GT4 money.  I didn't know when my order locked at the time as the dealer couldn't tell me as my build date got pushed back a couple of times.  In the weeks after I placed my order I changed from 18 ways seats to carbon folding buckets, then a few weeks later I added PCCB.  By this time my car was the value of a GT4 but as none were available I was ok with the knowledge that I had a very highly speced GTS, as opposed to a base GT4 which would have been a compromise on my ideal spec, but I still would have changed my order to a GT4 at that point as I am a driving enthusiast and just lived with the lack of options the GTS has.  Anyway my order locked on 28/02/16, then in mid March 2016 PCA released the second batch of GT4s on to the market and as my order was locked I couldn't change it.  I was annoyed/disappointed that many of these GT4s were left unsold and dealers were specing them for floor stock right up until July.  But I just couldn't change mine without I traded it in before it had even arrived in Australia for a loss of ~40K.

However given that I have been disappointed that I didn't get a GT4, the GTS has surpassed my expectations in every way and at no point has it left me wanting, it has been better than I could ever have imagined.  All the accolades it has got are thoroughly deserved.  I don't think I would move to a GT4 now, although I have thought about it, but I certainly wouldn't spends thousands extra making the change, the GTS is just that good.  With the MKII GT3 here at the end of the year, MK1 GT3s have just started to drop so my plan is to sell the GTS and get in to a MK1 GT3 in 12 months or so when their values are more in line with their age etc.

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Ceramics are fine for a street driven car with occasional track outings,  You can stuff a set of steel brakes quicker than ceramics, but ceramics are more resilient to a point, they feel great and give consistent braking performance. 

You would struggle to stuff a steel brake rotor while changing a wheel but you can do it easily with a ceramic. Also PCCB have an issue with very wet conditions. It is like driving through a creek and having no brakes on the other side except you do not need to drive through any water. I have had this happen as well as others I know. 

You only have to overheat ceramics to stuff them. That is why they have over temp indicators. In a powerfull car it is not that hard to do. 

 

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You would struggle to stuff a steel brake rotor while changing a wheel but you can do it easily with a ceramic. Also PCCB have an issue with very wet conditions. It is like driving through a creek and having no brakes on the other side except you do not need to drive through any water. I have had this happen as well as others I know. 

You only have to overheat ceramics to stuff them. That is why they have over temp indicators. In a powerfull car it is not that hard to do. 

 

Each to their own, but as you have an a bad experience it doesn't mean that everybody does.  More don't than do.

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Each to their own, but as you have an a bad experience it doesn't mean that everybody does.  More don't than do.

Im not trying to sell anything either. ? Yep don't push them and they will last forever. Porsche mislead with the advertising of PCCB but there is no reason that anyone interested in them should not know the pros and cons to base their decision on. 

I am sure you will find someone that values PCCB. 

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Ceramics are fine for a street driven car with occasional track outings,  You can stuff a set of steel brakes quicker than ceramics, but ceramics are more resilient to a point, they feel great and give consistent braking performance.  Are they worth the extra money, probably not, but are they a better brake, most definitely.

I signed my contract on 1/12/15 when the GT4 was sold out and to be fair at the time I didn't want to spend GT4 money.  I didn't know when my order locked at the time as the dealer couldn't tell me as my build date got pushed back a couple of times.  In the weeks after I placed my order I changed from 18 ways seats to carbon folding buckets, then a few weeks later I added PCCB.  By this time my car was the value of a GT4 but as none were available I was ok with the knowledge that I had a very highly speced GTS, as opposed to a base GT4 which would have been a compromise on my ideal spec, but I still would have changed my order to a GT4 at that point as I am a driving enthusiast and just lived with the lack of options the GTS has.  Anyway my order locked on 28/02/16, then in mid March 2016 PCA released the second batch of GT4s on to the market and as my order was locked I couldn't change it.  I was annoyed/disappointed that many of these GT4s were left unsold and dealers were specing them for floor stock right up until July.  But I just couldn't change mine without I traded it in before it had even arrived in Australia for a loss of ~40K.

However given that I have been disappointed that I didn't get a GT4, the GTS has surpassed my expectations in every way and at no point has it left me wanting, it has been better than I could ever have imagined.  All the accolades it has got are thoroughly deserved.  I don't think I would move to a GT4 now, although I have thought about it, but I certainly wouldn't spends thousands extra making the change, the GTS is just that good.  With the MKII GT3 here at the end of the year, MK1 GT3s have just started to drop so my plan is to sell the GTS and get in to a MK1 GT3 in 12 months or so when their values are more in line with their age etc.

From several reviews, the GT4 is a car that will only be fun to drive on a track, the gearing is so tall that you are at 180km/hr in 3rd gear. That is why Sharkwerks changed the gearing to make them shorter in their modded GT4. Seeing that there will be another GT4RS coming out with a 4L, it is looking as though they aren't as rare or desirable as owners have hoped plus the new 718S models are matching them in performance on the track.

http://sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=464

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I would have loved to have seen black rims on that white GTS.    Nice one! I'd not seen that review and I've watched so many. The Chris Harris one was my favourite but this one gives it a great run for it's money. That Cayman S is pretty much specced like a GTS minus the black badging and front bumper isn't it? This would be a great ad for Porsche :P Watching this video feels like a bad idea as it is just showing me what I'm missing out on. Btw, is that your white 981 Spyder (?) in your avatar?

Chris Harris vids are certainly right up there (Porsche should pay him royalties from all the cars he sells!) and yes, that Evo Cayman S was pretty much GTS spec... just different badges, bumpers and a pretty hard to notice 10kW less iirc.  The GTS was cheaper than a similarly optioned S so was great if one wanted all the fruit (with the budget).  The advantage of the S was price from being able to uncheck some of the bundled options that some folks didn't care for like the full leather dash, lower front bumper and smoked tail lights (each to their own).

How goes your search?  FWIW, the 10mm lower X73 sports suspension and must have switchable sports exhaust can be retrofitted so it can make alot of sense to find a non GTS and add these (and their cost) later if desired.

Yup, that's our Spyder... am a big fan of both versions but I like how the 981 shares so much with GT4 while having its own rare uniqueness being lighter with a lower centre of gravity sans roof, bespoke rear deck and road tuned suspension where ours spends almost all of its time (while still being great for an occasional track day).  Photo credit to Niko :) 

IMG_5275.jpg

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user @Ozvino has a white spyder and appeared to know basic import numbers when I spoke to him a few months ago.

No-one is saying it so I will - the Boxster is just as good as the Cayman. You could open up your potential hits if you expand your search to the Boxster. I might be biased but the Boxster is the best Porsche ;P and there's nothing like open-top motoring. Welcome to the forum.

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user @Ozvino has a white spyder and appeared to know basic import numbers when I spoke to him a few months ago.

No-one is saying it so I will - the Boxster is just as good as the Cayman. You could open up your potential hits if you expand your search to the Boxster. I might be biased but the Boxster is the best Porsche ;P and there's nothing like open-top motoring. Welcome to the forum.

There were 37 MY11 987.2 Spyders brought into Australia, my understanding was the Australian cars were all white or black with the vast majority being white. I don't have a split on PDK v Manual but I believe that more than half were PDK.

My car was brought in for Alan Hamilton and was the first registered, the others followed in quick order. 

They are an awesome car and it totally opened up my eyes to what a wonderful combination of power and handling the Boxster is. Yes, I do have a love for the under dog Porsche (928, 924, 996) but I did sell a GT3 - so its not like I drive the Spyder because its all my budget could afford. They are totally under valued cars.

Spyder, roof off, sports exhaust on is rather special

Dave

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How goes your search?  FWIW, the 10mm lower X73 sports suspension and must have switchable sports exhaust can be retrofitted so it can make alot of sense to find a non GTS and add these (and their cost) later if desired.

 

 

X73 is only retrofitable if the car doesn't have PASM to begin with I believe.  You can't retrofit it on to a car with PASM.

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X73 is only retrofitable if the car doesn't have PASM to begin with I believe.  You can't retrofit it on to a car with PASM.

I got the sports exhaust (PSE) retrofitted a few weeks after I picked the car up last December - its totally as it would have been had they done it at the factory, down to switch gear inside the car and the computer remap. It also rolls up under the car warranty.

Chris Harris vids are certainly right up there (Porsche should pay him royalties from all the cars he sells!) and yes, that Evo Cayman S was pretty much GTS spec... just different badges, bumpers and a pretty hard to notice 10kW less iirc.  The GTS was cheaper than a similarly optioned S so was great if one wanted all the fruit (with the budget).  The advantage of the S was price from being able to uncheck some of the bundled options that some folks didn't care for like the full leather dash, lower front bumper and smoked tail lights (each to their own).

How goes your search?  FWIW, the 10mm lower X73 sports suspension and must have switchable sports exhaust can be retrofitted so it can make alot of sense to find a non GTS and add these (and their cost) later if desired.

Yup, that's our Spyder... am a big fan of both versions but I like how the 981 shares so much with GT4 while having its own rare uniqueness being lighter with a lower centre of gravity sans roof, bespoke rear deck and road tuned suspension where ours spends almost all of its time (while still being great for an occasional track day).  Photo credit to Niko :) 

IMG_5275.jpg

@vin - if I can find one my next modern P car will be a 981 Spyder - Manual Gear Shift, Carrera S motor, exhaust note that makes you orgasm and killer looks - freaking awesome combo

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yes - I was responding to 

How goes your search?  FWIW, the 10mm lower X73 sports suspension and must have switchable sports exhaust can be retrofitted so it can make alot of sense to find a non GTS and add these (and their cost) later if desired.

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