Power - kWh per day

[Troubleshooter]

It's a given

[Redracn]

2 hours ago, firstone said:

Is AGL shorting the market by removing coal, increasing dependence on renewables then setting market?

Everybody gets the price of the last bidder required to meet demand so less low cost capacity such as coal the higher the price as more power is required from higher bidders such as gas. Of course renewables (wind and solar) do not have to bid and along with priority access get the  price pluse another 8cents/kwh on top of that. 

There is no doubt AGL are maximising their bottom line at our expense and in doing so are helping other higher cost generators as well. 

[DJM]

We've now got Bradford solar on board so we can offer clients solar PV and tesla batteries in new homes.  I have 8kW of panels so I might plug in a tesla battery system and see what happens.  Need to do some homework on available sizes vs power I'll be making vs cost.  I think they said $12k ish but not sure what capacity.  

Like I said above it I can store the power I make and use at night rather than pay 29c and feed back surplus at 11c it'll pay for itself sometime soon.....ish.  And I can charge my mission E cheaply ??

[TINGY]

We are getting ripped for sure, luckily what we pay is set by our contracts with our provider.

The company i work for was happy that it had managed to secure a deal with a provider for some power for 8 weeks set at $90 MWH. My eldest son works for one of the big power stations in the Hunter Valley NSW and he was telling me the price can be adjusted every 5mins. It normally sits between  $40-$60 MWH, on one of our hottest days last year the price peaked to $14,500 MWH and sat up around that price for at least 2hrs, each generator puts out about 270MW of power and there are 5 of these, do the math, tell me AGL ain't making enough money.

Our business simply stopped operations for about 4hrs on this day because they were warned by the provider that they would have some power cut at the peak load times.

This is what big manufacturers have to pay in Australia, no wonder manufacturing is dying in this country.

[Arne Krix]

On 27/02/2018 at 16:52, sleazius said:

So for the first time in a long time I've paid a power bill and got total bill shock. My last power bill was insane. I'm installing a massive solar jobby to offset it but I was wondering:

How much power a day do you guys use?

Don't need any $ figures, just kWh / day. I'm interested to see how we all compare. I think my bill is at the extreme end of things though.

I am in the industry for 20 years. Happy to have a chat if you want , making you aware of the traps , bad product, options and solutions. The industry is a minefield . Too many people spend their good money and finish up with crap. 

[1q2w3e4r]

Which is why we've held off doing anything, though the power bill at home is pretty astronomical 

[firstone]

It's like anything new. Time tells all tales.

3 years is generally enough to see the dross

 

[Arne Krix]

most people get talked into systems which are not big enough ,or the right solution , consequently they get disappointed with the results. The industry is so bad , that even  a lot of companies and their consultants do not fully understand the rules , like export limit , for example. Most companies sub contract ,makes the job $1000 cheaper and all legal liability is brushed of to the subie. Product is another matter , we need specific 'low light environment ' panels , with Twin Blade , half cell and PERC technology . Gives you up to 30 % more yield under cloudy and overcast days. ( We have many of those in Victoria ). You want stuff like Q. Cell , not Jinko crap. A lot of private import around , you won't comply with your house insurance without Australian Standards. Cheap inverters give you 5 year supply warranty only , they burn out within 3 years. With the replacement inverter , you only get the balance of the old warranty. So you get effectively 2 inverters in 5 years , $ 500 each , versus quality , SMA , $2000 , 10/15 year replacement warranty , and 10 year FREE monitoring of your system .  Go on Facebook and check out ' Crap Solar' , a site dedicated to call out the bastards. It can be done properly and successful for a fair price. Check us out on Facebook  if you like , " Sky Energy Systems'. No subcontracting , all qualified and accredited people , lifetime warranty on installation and workmanship , exclusive partners in Victoria with SMA and LG. We make it our business to get it right every time.😉

[KGB]

We put in an almost 14kw system in April this year, Fonius inverter, LG panels. Effective power bills $0.  Tango 22c flat rate in, 12-10c kWh export.  Had a great experience with the provider, no subcontractors, all in house.  Punctual, neat, tidy, did what they said they would,  and assisted with power supplier changeover.   Couldn’t have done more for us, rare experience.

Happy to PM details.

 

 

 

[TwoHeadsTas]

We've had 6.5 kw of REC panels with 5kw SMA inverter for 8 years on new house.  Great result until our feed in tariff was reduced from 28c (1:1) to 8c last year.  Have gone from annual power bill of ~ $400 to $1500 or so.  Got quote for Tesla Powerwall 2 battery this week, will, consider seriously

 

[ArthurK]

Four years ago we installed a 20kW system and have never looked back since. Its great receiving a bill that has a credit it on it versus a payable amount. Our electricity bills were astronomical. Now we are are averaging $300 for the year. Im a big believer in getting it done once and getting it done right. As per comments above we went with quality kit LG Neon2 360w panels with Solar Edge inverters with optimisers. The system was designed to have a North 50%, 25% East and 25 West orientation and it gives the perfect balance for a house that uses power in the morning before school etc and evening too. You end up with a wider fatter production curve vs narrower taller curve with pure North solar production. In summer we produce a peak of 140-150kwh a day and in winter we average 26-30kwh. 

 

Batteries for me arent worth it. They dont make financial sense unless you are going to use they backup/ups capabilities to justify their costs. A Tesla that costs 12-15K installed will have a very long pay back period (close to 10 years). I would rather invest in more solar panels than the battery. In South Australia it makes great sense as those poor bastards pay ridiculous amounts for their electricity. 

 

Since the Solar Edge system is a 400V solution I am hoping someone will develop a charging station for electric vehicles that can be used directly to feed a car. 

[ArthurK]

I will preface this post with, I am a bit OCD when it comes to power consumption and paying of utility bills ie hate them. If there was a way of becoming self sufficient I would and get rid of gas  connection to the house, unfortunately not a viable option for heating a pool or hydronic heating for winter. Or the fact the solar production in winter is shocking

Here is a perfect example of export and using credits to power after hours. The system produced 128.24kWh and during production we consumed 29.69kWh. This mean the system exported 98.55kwh. During the 24 hour period we also imported 66.52kWh to supplement the house during the hours of no production. What does this look like cost wise:

 No Battery

Imported kWh: 66.52

Cost per kWh: $0.19 (rounded for simplicity)

Total Import Cost: $12.64

Exported kWh: 98.55

Solar Rebate: $0.11

Total Rebate: -$10.84

Total Cost for 24hrs: $1.80

 

With Battery

Battery kWh: 15

Imported kWh: 51.52

Cost per kWh: $0.19 (rounded for simplicity)

Total Import Cost: $9.79

Exported kWh: 83.55

Solar Rebate: $0.11

Total Rebate: -$9.19

Total Cost for 24hrs: $0.60

 Savings of $1.20 for that day. Even if you assume the savings are $1.20 (15 x $0.19 less rebate 15 x $0.11) every day ,as a best case scenario, how many years will it take to pay off $15,000 (15000 /  (365 x $1.20) = 34)? Invest in more solar before a battery is my opinion. If I could, I would have put 30kWh (maximum residential 3 phase installation) on the roof, just ran out of space.

Happy to be told I am completely wrong in my assumptions or calculations .

[LeeM]

On 06/12/2020 at 18:37, TwoHeadsTas said:

  Great result until our feed in tariff was reduced from 28c (1:1) to 8c last year.  Have gone from annual power bill of ~ $400 to $1500 or so. 

  That's the problem quite a few SA residents have had when they've installed expensive solar set ups. All promises about tariffs and rebates etc, then the government did some dodgy deals and dropped them significantly to make the solar investment nearly a waste of time and money. Fuck, they're even trying to get EV owners to pay an extra road tax here in SA, so you can see where our governments head is at.

 I don't understand how any of the solar thing works, nor do I trust half of these companies/subbies selling the product and doing the work. Being in the building game, I've heard horror stories from those very subbies (who no longer do installs), salesmen who no longer sell, as they have morals and can't lie to the clients, and the very clients who end up with less than value for money, so I'm not going to be getting solar, as we usually pay around $100/month, and cheaper if I pay in advance which I usually do. We don't dwell on what gas and electricty supply costs us, as we're using it and we just pay (rates I f...ing hate paying, as councils do f..k all for that!)

 If you have a big house and family, it makes sense I s'pose, but for us to drop $15-20k on solar which you'll only see the benefits after 10 years doesn't make any immediate financial sense at all

[Niko]

You are spot on lee, I wouldn't do it again, thanks to the government reneging on the tariffs after we had installed ours.

Also I recommended the same company to my daughter (BRAEMAC) when things were working for us.

BRAEMAC installed the panels etc, then about 8 or 9 months later the panels were not converting all they should have been.

BRAEMAC no longer in business for panels and we couldn't get them to come out and have a look under warranty.

Flogged us off to various people, in the end we just gave up on them, refused to answer phone calls and emails.

Absolute aholes....How guilty did I feel after talking my daughter and son in law into getting them  and in particular through the company we used.

I wouldn't do them again.

 

[P-Kay]

Well, I'm in the FOR camp.

New house build, so figured 'while you're at it' and went for the Enphase system, purely for the modular battery option. I went with 2, therefore have a bit over 2kWh capacity.

Sure it was a fair chunk of change and considered the 'when will it be payed off' argument, but convinced myself to enjoy the savings now rather than paying bills.

For me, the best decision I have made for quite some time. 

[Pembo]

We held off in 2012 when we built in Brisbane. I considered $24K For A 5 kW system was too steep at the time even with the big feed in tarriff.

Recently in March 2020 the good wife decided she would get a Tesla (don't punish me for mentioning them on the P forum)

At the same time we bought a 13.2 kW system with Q cells and a 10kW 3phase inverter. $11,000

I cannot stress enough the ROI value of this double whammy.

We now have a zero power bill and it covers the charging of the Model 3

She drives around 35,000 kms per annum so the previous car was costing $6000 per annum to fuel and maintain.

That cost is now completely gone. The solar will therefore pay for itself in less than 18 months.

Most of the car charging occurs after hours from the grid but the solar production offsets it by well more than 100%

None of these figures are bullshit and moreover i now have more time to maintain (play with) my Porsche as i no longer have a third car to look after.