Cup Car Ownership

[mjp88]

Hi All,

Got bitten by the track day bug a couple of years ago and since then had always planned to buy a GT3 as a car I could use regularly on the track but have as a fun car to use on the road as well. Have spent most of the time since then refreshing Carsales and watching the prices go to the moon, but recently saw a listing for 996 cup car at Duttons that turned my head. Now wondering if I’d be better off looking at something more dedicated to the track and then keeping the difference for running costs and maybe another older sports car slow enough to enjoy on public roads.

I’ve never owned a race car before, have driven a couple of track prepared cars but never seriously. Don’t have any short term plans to go racing, so would mostly just be wanting to use it for track days around Sydney and then maybe getting more into club events in the future.

Any advice for a newcomer on stuff like servicing, things to be careful about when buying, events where I could use it, etc? Is this a really shit idea?

Cheers,

Matt

[hugh]

If your budget is sub 100k and you are hell bent on getting a Porsche I'd be suggesting you go and buy a tidy Cayman with road reg so you can enjoy it everywhere. If you can nudge closer to 200k then try and pick up a second hand GT4. 

You will get considerably more use out of it, be similar in pace and trailering a car is a PITA. Plus, driving on a track is fun but if you are just driving the same 1-2 tracks all the time it can get a bit boring...............especially if that is the only place you can drive your car. 

[Gavn]

Hi Matt - I'm running a 997 wovr with cup doors, suspension mods & a few other bits that is a lot of fun & pretty sharp to drive on the track.  The guy I purchased it from moved on to cup cars and misses the ability to turn up at a track day and run with just the cost of fuel, tyres etc.  A cup car takes a whole lot more budget and a switched on team you can tap into when you need to.  The buy in price is tempting but everyone I know that has gone down that path has told me 'don't bother unless you really want to get rid of a lot of money'.  I'm sure they're fun & hope an owner or two on here chimes in but I'd throroughly recommend taking a cheaper road Porsche and then prepping it for track (or buying someone else's if the opportunity arises).  Look up my company & give me a buzz if you'd like to chat more - I can share more details about running costs of air-cooled v water-cooled etc.  For the past two years my cars have only seen track use.

& it's not a really shit idea.....if you're considering track driving then it's a great idea!

Edit - a member on here sold a track prepped boxster a few months back that still had rego on it but a lot of tasty upgrades.  I know boxsters don't get a lot of love from some but it was a great car and good buying so they do come up every so often.

 

[TwoHeadsTas]

What @hugh said....

I had a LHD 996.1 GT3 that was stripped out as a track car (not a proper Cup car though).  It was so much fun on the track I wanted to road register it.  I was 90% the way there, and then had an opportunity to drive it for a couple of hours on trade plates, and it was so uncomfortable I gave up all thoughts of road registering it, and also the opportunities to drive it legally under Rally Reg were very few and far between.

I gave up on that idea, sold the car and bought a RHD road GT3.  Now this was a couple of years ago before prices went stupid, but what Hugh says makes great sense.....

[LeeM]

 I don't own a cup car, nor have I driven one, yet even if I won lotto, I'd much prefer to buy a road car with rego and modify it. As Hugh mentioned, a Cayman would be perfect 

 

 

[spiller]

I’ve owned my 996 cup 4 years. Sold a very focused 996 GT3 road car before purchasing the cup. I don’t drive it much, around 4-5 times per year but there is not a lot of difference in running a 996 cup and say a 996 GT3 if you maintain both properly. Slicks are the biggest difference and I usually get a year out of mine given I don’t use the car much. The trailer can be a pain but once you get the hang of it and get your routine in order it’s 2nd nature. I love my 996 cup and will keep it until I’m too old to do motorsport, which is hopefully many many years off. Full disclosure, after three years of no road car, I missed not being able to drive on the street and have recently added another 996 GT3. There is nothing like a cup car on slicks for the track, but if you have ANY interest in driving your car on the street, do not do it, because you certainly will miss not being able to.

[mjp88]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

The thing that seemed most attractive to me about the cup car entry price was mostly that it relieves some of the stress around resale value or damage that it might pick up on track. A track modified 996 or 997 Carrera could also fit the bill pretty well, but have never really come across any.

In terms of road cars the main thing I am cross shopping against is 996/997 GT3s — my ideal in that market is one that was rough enough that I wouldn’t need to be worrying about stone chips or other wear and tear ruining some pristine example. Once the values start to push towards $300k the concern is that I’d just end up being afraid to really rag it.

The GT4 is one I’ve looked at a lot and if I was a bit more objective would be a good middle ground, but there’s something special about 911 so always find myself pulled back towards GT3s.

[Raven]

Been racing and tracking cars for 30 years , my 2 cents start of small eg something like an MX5 for a track car , why dirt cheap to run , and lots of fun to drive, parts easy to obtain and there is a strong MX 5 track community to help you and to compete against .

Start off small hone your drivings skill learning how to get the most out of a small under powered car before getting into something like a cup car , the consumables alone eg Tires , brake pads are considerably cost on a cup car  , let alone an engine or driveline rebuild on  one , yes Porsche are extremely reliable but sooner or later there will be big dollar cost factors that need to be maintained and rebuilt , if you can do this yourself , you can save but if you are having it done by say someone like Hamiltons auto Haus or PR tec then the cost will be considerable 

[edgy]

I guess the question is what budget are you happy to play track day car with? I'd agree that buying into a 996/7 GT3 at circa $300k then going to the race track is a risk not many are willing to undertake these days... so if you can ascertain a budget for the buy in, then decide on the use case scenario, it will present some options for you. 

I have tracked road registered GT3' over the years and I tell you what, at the end of a track day it is always a blessing to roll out of the pits, past the guys loading trailers with your air-con and radio blasting  maybe even a chiko roll in one hand? 

That being said, I do see a cup car in my future once I am done with running the road cars, lighter, faster, safer, lower capital cost etc... the value is not so much my apprehension but the subject matter definitely is, if you total an older car they were only finite supply from new, let alone 20 years on! So it becomes not so much a question of dollars and cents but the actual practicality of being able to replace what you had! 

There is also something to be said for picking the group you run with, I have been at track days where it is a blood bath, no grouping to skill or lap times and have seen the carnage, then I have been to others that are a well oiled machine, where safety and driver education is the #1 focus, and nary a major incident.  

 

[MR901]

1 hour ago, Raven said:

Been racing and tracking cars for 30 years , my 2 cents start of small eg something like an MX5 for a track car , why dirt cheap to run , and lots of fun to drive, parts easy to obtain and there is a strong MX 5 track community to help you and to compete against .

Start off small hone your drivings skill learning how to get the most out of a small under powered car before getting into something like a cup car , the consumables alone eg Tires , brake pads are considerably cost on a cup car  , let alone an engine or driveline rebuild on  one , yes Porsche are extremely reliable but sooner or later there will be big dollar cost factors that need to be maintained and rebuilt , if you can do this yourself , you can save but if you are having it done by say someone like Hamiltons auto Haus or PR tec then the cost will be considerable 

I was ready to buy a GT3 when I got the same advice about 15 years ago...honestly it was the best racing advice I ever got. I bought a 911SC that was fully track prepared but had a standard engine & rallied it for almost 10 years. It took a decade to get down to 11 minutes at Mt Buller.....within my skill limits & risk tolerance I knew we wouldn't be able to go much faster so changed to a 996 GT3. After 5 years in the GT3 the best time is 10:42.....I've gone from driving a slow car fast to a fast car slow....ha ha....the GT3 can comfortably do sub 10 minutes in the right hands however I seem to have found the limits not only of my skills / risk tolerance but also my finances !! With escalating prices I can't afford to bin it, it's faster than my risk tolerance will extend & I'll need a lifetime of practice to drive it "well". I understand & appreciate that for many people faster is always better however for me personally I enjoyed racing more when I was driving a relatively inexpensive slow car fast. Don't underestimate how much fun you can have with a Boxster or MX5 !!! With the money you save you can buy something awesome for those weekend drives around the hills....

[Jason A]

I would not focus so much on the purchase price, work out the cost of ownership.

If you want to track the car and maintain it properly, get some expert advice from a reputable shop that currently maintains customer cars.

Road cars running cost are related to kilometres, cup cars and RSR’s are measured in hours. A cheap cup car with high hours on engine and gearbox = expensive ownership. They are also hot, twitchy, uncomfortable and like a new born baby. The car is the easy part.

I would suggest starting with a road car with some pedigree, if you really get into it - take the next step but be well informed.

You have received some good advice from a group here who have been on your journey. 

[LeeM]

 WRX 👍 

[OBRUT]

Another thing to keep in mind is that track days can get boring and you might find yourself thinking about racing. Group S historic sports cars is a great option - and many of the cars still have road reg too.  Lots of car options at various budgets and you will always find someone to race against no matter where you sit in the field overall.  Running costs are relatively low. 
 

I went from tarmac rallying a lightweight 2.8 litre 911ST to historic racing a 2 litre 69 911E.  I miss the 9” rear wheels more than I miss the horsepower…

[sleazius]

25 minutes ago, LeeM said:

 WRX 👍 

Just bought one today, good call 

[LeeM]

1 hour ago, sleazius said:

Just bought one today, good call 

 Which model? 

[MFX]

12 hours ago, Raven said:

Been racing and tracking cars for 30 years , my 2 cents start of small eg something like an MX5 for a track car , why dirt cheap to run , and lots of fun to drive, parts easy to obtain and there is a strong MX 5 track community to help you and to compete against .

Start off small hone your drivings skill learning how to get the most out of a small under powered car before getting into something like a cup car , the consumables alone eg Tires , brake pads are considerably cost on a cup car  , let alone an engine or driveline rebuild on  one , yes Porsche are extremely reliable but sooner or later there will be big dollar cost factors that need to be maintained and rebuilt , if you can do this yourself , you can save but if you are having it done by say someone like Hamiltons auto Haus or PR tec then the cost will be considerable 

That is exactly why I bought my Boxster. There is a lot to be said about a 'No F#@%'s Given' track car. 

I originally bought my orange car to be track/road pig, but after all of the money, time and effort gone into it, let alone the cost if I blew it up or binned it, a cheap fun car makes sooo much more sense. 

[sleazius]

54 minutes ago, LeeM said:

 Which model? 

'00 2 door STi Type R Limited Version 6. Easily mistaken for a 22B at first glance. I'm pretty stoked with it. Drove it twice today, smile got bigger the more time I spent in it.

[LeeM]

31 minutes ago, MFX said:

That is exactly why I bought my Boxster. There is a lot to be said about a 'No F#@%'s Given' track car. 

 Especially when it shits itself 😅

 Come on mate, we need to see that thing on track asap! 

1 minute ago, sleazius said:

'00 2 door STi Type R Limited Version 6. Easily mistaken for a 22B at first glance. I'm pretty stoked with it. Drove it twice today, smile got bigger the more time I spent in it.

 Nice one mate. And here I am looking at $15k WRX's 😅🙄

 

[sleazius]

7 minutes ago, LeeM said:

Nice one mate. And here I am looking at $15k WRX's 😅🙄

 

Nothing wrong with that, doesn't get much better bang for buck wise 👍

[spiller]

Nice one @sleazius that will be a great car to own now and into the future.

[mc968cs]

7 hours ago, sleazius said:

'00 2 door STi Type R Limited Version 6. Easily mistaken for a 22B at first glance. I'm pretty stoked with it. Drove it twice today, smile got bigger the more time I spent in it.

Woohoo. That’s cool. Well done.  Had the 99 non sti wrx new, and loved it. Couldn’t afford the sti back then - maybe still can’t 🤣

[DJM]

I’ve learned that road cars are good on road and track cars are good on track.  I’ve tried a few times to have an all rounder, you just end up with a car that is compromised for one or both.

best car for track is something you can bash over kerbs and ignore stone chips.  Nothing worse than pootling round worrying about your investment.  Cup car makes sense provided maintenance costs are not crazy.  

Otherwise look beyond Porsche. I’ve had a couple of track only RX7s that were cheap, fast and great fun.  Much faster than GT3s for a lot less money.

[sleazius]

8 hours ago, spiller said:

Nice one @sleazius that will be a great car to own now and into the future.

Thanks! I was lucky, dealt with a great enthusiast owner who absolutely loved the car and who is a 2 door aficionado, he had 3 of different stripes but recently sold two to fund some property moves.

Can't wait to take it on a longer drive to stretch its legs.

[Raven]

10 hours ago, LeeM said:

 Especially when it shits itself 😅

 Come on mate, we need to see that thing on track asap! 

 Nice one mate. And here I am looking at $15k WRX's 😅🙄

 

They all shit themselves at some stage no matter the brand or how much time and money you put into it , just the nature of racing or track work .

Remember a 20 minute race is putting every component on the car under maximum strain and stress , parts wear and fail , unforeseen shit happens out of your control ,driver error cars hit each other or drop fluid causing you to spear off,,  motorsport is the highest of high,s when everything comes together and the lowest of low,s when things dont .

Just look at top level professional motor racing Teams spend tens of millions of dollars and sometimes fail to even make a warm up lap , that is motorsport , it can be heart breaking and cruel ..

The point is make sure you are enjoying yourself and getting as much time on track as possible , no one wants to spend huge amounts of time and money and not get the enjoyment of driving the car ..

[hugh]

It's a 3 part equation; Cost / speed / reliability - you can only pick 2 with the remaining item being the compromise. For example, if you want a cheap + fast car you will compromise reliability. Reliability on a budget then you compromise speed etc. (hence why cars like MX5's are a so popular as an entry point, cheap + reliable due to not being high HP). 

A Porsche GT car tends to be a great all round package in terms of speed + reliability but that is due to the relatively high initial cost outlay - again, you can only pick 2 from the equation!