Whats for sale (in Australia ) and interesting Thread

[symsy]

19 hours ago, Peter John said:

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-1999/SSE-AD-5276017

Nice write up @hugh?

1. Nice pictures

2. DODGY FONT!

3. Inappropriate use of bullet points and numbers

4. Suggest a joke.

5. You are way to eager, try statements like , dont call me I will call you , ring me on Fridays between 9.30 and 10.30 am , if your serious it builds the tension in a deal

6. An odd spelling mistake can ad to the mystique 

7. WTF - Its got stickers on it  and dirty pedals.. did you not detail it 

8. Pricing suggestion  199, 911  , 199, 996

 

 

10 minutes ago, SammyD said:

So this is the new benchmark for 3.2s, $90k ?

Surely more than an SC ...Higher

[Ozvino]

8 minutes ago, symsy said:

5. You are way to eager, try statements like , dont call me I will call you , ring me on Fridays between 9.30 and 10.30 am , if your serious it builds the tension in a deal

you forgot - "No test pilots"

[Troubleshooter]

7 minutes ago, symsy said:

if your serious

You're not your

[symsy]

4 minutes ago, Troubleshooter said:

You're not your

Spill checking again !!  Creating Mystique and getting the site content page numbers up

Ahh should have ##metatagged to #spilling mistake #capitalletters

[Troubleshooter]

I'm bored ... and it's only 9am ...

[symsy]

1 minute ago, Troubleshooter said:

I'm bored ... and it's only 9am ...

Dont come to Byron GT3's very dicey through the roundabouts in the wet and there is a traffic jam of 450M

Let play - guess the real price it will actually sell at , as these cars have spent more time on the floor than on the road

And spot the diff , KMS and years dont count

https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Porsche-911-2010/OAG-AD-15443651/?Cr=123

https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Porsche-911-2011/OAG-AD-15575633/?Cr=124

[davidtran]

19 minutes ago, SammyD said:

So this is the new benchmark for 3.2s, $90k ?

Keep in mind it does have higher kms. No top end rebuild done either $80-85k is pretty fair in this market I guess. You would want to get a comp and leak down done too. Ensure the tolerances are within 90%.

Lower km cars could still fetch $95-100k

Mine has just under 170kms and I paid 95k.

Apparently an immaculate one owner with less kms than mine sold at a dealer for 107k a while ago. 

[Troubleshooter]

What, it rains up there?? Guess it's good for washing the hair ... Travelling in a fried out Kombi on a hippy trail head fulla zombie ....

 

[JonoF]

1 hour ago, davidtran said:

Keep in mind it does have higher kms. No top end rebuild done either $80-85k is pretty fair in this market I guess. You would want to get a comp and leak down done too. Ensure the tolerances are within 90%

IMHO - At $89K, you don’t bother with a PPI, leak down, etc. Someone else will buy it at that price sight unseen. The seller will prefer that so he doesn’t have to stuff aroun with picky buyers. Either you run with the hoard of very eager hassle free buyers, or you fall behind and miss out on the car. Just my two cents. 

[hugh]

1 hour ago, symsy said:

1. Nice pictures

2. DODGY FONT!

3. Inappropriate use of bullet points and numbers

4. Suggest a joke.

5. You are way to eager, try statements like , dont call me I will call you , ring me on Fridays between 9.30 and 10.30 am , if your serious it builds the tension in a deal

6. An odd spelling mistake can ad to the mystique 

7. WTF - Its got stickers on it  and dirty pedals.. did you not detail it 

8. Pricing suggestion  199, 911  , 199, 996

Yeh, stickers = "OUTLAW" Surely that gives it $$$ cred? 

[rminc]

10 minutes ago, JonoF said:

IMHO - At $89K, you don’t bother with a PPI, leak down, etc. Someone else will buy it at that price sight unseen. The seller will prefer that so he doesn’t have to stuff aroun with picky buyers. Either you run with the hoard of very eager hassle free buyers, or you fall behind and miss out on the car. Just my two cents. 

I spoke to him last night. He called me back from the morning. Has had alot of people call to ask questions and "interrogate him" as opposed to actually genuine interest in buying the car. He told me he has had a few people ask for more pictures, but no offers or anything that looks really serious.  

So if you want to buy it sight unseen, I guess you still might be able to.

With that mileage you'd definately want a PPI done. $88k sight unseen is doubtful. It's not chump change. Factor in a top end you're at over $100k.

For anyone who is interested most of the car is original paint apparently which is a big plus I'd say. 

It will sell, just interesting to see how much for and when.  

[hugh]

20 minutes ago, rminc said:

I spoke to him last night. He called me back from the morning. Has had alot of people call to ask questions and "interrogate him" as opposed to actually genuine interest in buying the car. He told me he has had a few people ask for more pictures, but no offers or anything that looks really serious.  

So if you want to buy it sight unseen, I guess you still might be able to.

With that mileage you'd definately want a PPI done. $88k sight unseen is doubtful. It's not chump change. Factor in a top end you're at over $100k.

For anyone who is interested most of the car is original paint apparently which is a big plus I'd say. 

It will sell, just interesting to see how much for and when.  

Sorry but 88k is pretty much "chump change" for one of these cars. If you are scared of throwing 10-20k at a 30+ yo classic car in potential mech etc. then I'd suggest you reassess your expectations of entering the classic Porsche market. PPI isn't a get out of jail card by any means. 

[symsy]

So SOMEONE !! PFA should make the offer , agree a number thats negotiable based on the PPI , or put a number forward and carry the risk no PPI

The use of a PPI gets so confusing, I guess you have to work out if is it risk mitigation /deterministic buy/not buy tool or a negotiation tool. 

The anxiety and questions of Porsche buyers such a drain! 

As a you know i try to buy hard but i also have to sell like us all on occasion.  To share some real world last week experiences I have recently said to a buyer talking with me, offer a price that and if I accept and you can PPI  and if it shows minors , I will do the minor work up to 2.5k, or pay my high price and I will potentially put all things wrong right at my dollar and we both have the right to pull out. Failing that , give me your drive away cash in the hand offer.

The car has had heaps of recent work and a RWC.

 To share , I can tell you the spread in the scenarios is approx  8% be.   I also realise the base price is a major factor and I  think im fundamentally under the CTS/DUTTON retail by 15-20% and 10% under general market. Lets face it we all know the market and are budding experts and have data .

So In the end if ideally in my mind if we aint getting within 3-5% of my ask , I aint selling , there is a only so much haggle room and i could be convinced with no hassle for the 8% 

So apply this to an 89K car that seems well priced.. what we talking here,  $5k is the negotiation position?   For me I would just offer , PPI and buy subject to no majors on PPI?

All need work doing on some level and really if its priced well,  its already cheap.  Market demand appears to be at a good level SC's and 3.2 seem to be in short supply..

Sellers Market Advantage.  Maybe the price should go up to 95k?

I hope it ends up in PFAers garage ASAP.. 

As a hoarder and keeper , I love to buy cars that have 31 year history with one owner

[Ozvino]

So whats the baseline for a PPI? What the car was when it left the factory or how it presents today after 30 years of use (for example) - to me you need to factor in the 30 years usage

With a PPI on an old car, suggest you have to be reasonable - its old, its worn, paint thins and fades etc. I would suggest you need to focus on the core items so you kn ow where you stand in regards to future work, but its a fools paradise to buy an old performance car and expect it to be hassle free (unless its a ground up resto)

Ive seen people try and haggle over paint thickness on a 40 year old Porsche - like they were even applying paint in a uniformed fashion 40 years ago...

[Lucky Phil]

The $89K SC has interior pictures now plus one of the engine.  I am amazed that this one has not sold already.

[ANF]

18 minutes ago, Ozvino said:

So whats the baseline for a PPI? What the car was when it left the factory or how it presents today after 30 years of use (for example) - to me you need to factor in the 30 years usage

With a PPI on an old car, suggest you have to be reasonable - its old, its worn, paint thins and fades etc. I would suggest you need to focus on the core items so you kn ow where you stand in regards to future work, but its a fools paradise to buy an old performance car and expect it to be hassle free (unless its a ground up resto)

Ive seen people try and haggle over paint thickness on a 40 year old Porsche - like they were even applying paint in a uniformed fashion 40 years ago...

I see the mentality behind a PPI nowadays as some form of "insurance" that your money is being well spent and to avoid any future unforseen dramas. Not sure how well a PPI can overcome any unforseen issues though..... without pulling things apart. If you know your way around a car you can most likely see most things that could cause issue, those that have no mechanical aptitude probably rely on one more..... or another persons advice who knows the cars...... they probably have become more prevalent in this age of buying cars sight unseen, I have done that once and would avoid doing ever again.....

I have never PPI'd a car I have bought. I did get one on a BMW once and it convinced me not to purchase it, whether that was warranted or not in hindsight is not clear....

My 928 I just went with it and yes it has had issues (I did have a fellow 928 owner with me and the owners brother also had a 928....), I seriously doubt any PPI would have picked up that after almost 2 years a valve would drop.... and all the other stuff has been minor or I saw before hand.....

Not sure I really answered your question..... 

[wilburforce]

3 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

The $89K SC has interior pictures now plus one of the engine.  I am amazed that this one has not sold already.

Me too - this looks mint.  Where are those blokes who were lining up for 3.2/sc's the other day? One owner + Aust Delivery - hard to go wrong long-term.

[davidtran]

33 minutes ago, hugh said:

Sorry but 88k is pretty much "chump change" for one of these cars.

I envy that thought haha.

When I purchased mine, I was going back and fourth over a couple of thousand dollars. 

I can see both sides of the fence. I do agree with RMINC; at $88,000 in a market that has slowed in the past 12 months you would want to ensure you're getting value and I sure as hell wouldn't be dropping that kind of money without a PPI. 

I can also see where you are coming from too. These are 30 year old cars now and I think that if you're going to buy one allow 20% of the purchase price for maintenance/unexpected costs.
If you don't have 20% extra maybe reconsider

[rminc]

49 minutes ago, hugh said:

Sorry but 88k is pretty much "chump change" for one of these cars. If you are scared of throwing 10-20k at a 30+ yo classic car in potential mech etc. then I'd suggest you reassess your expectations of entering the classic Porsche market. PPI isn't a get out of jail card by any means. 

I disagree with that. It's not that I mind spending $20-30k extra on the car. It's more so that I want to make sure I'm getting value for what I am paying. 

If I pay top dollar for a 911 and need to spend another $20-30k on the car, it will end up being a $120k car. If for some reason my circumstances change, I will list it for sale for what it owes and I'm sure this thread will have comments calling me a dreamer with my pricing.

Take this car for example: https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-Carrera-1988/SSE-AD-5139381/?Cr=7
It can be had for $110k and it still hasn't sold. Is it only worth $100k? $105k? If it can be had for $105k is it worth paying the extra $17k for a later model? with less kms?

I'm just saying that I want to make sure I don't overpay for something. To me $88k in general isn't chump change and even for that car it's not ridiculously cheap. It's price as it should be (IMO).

Just what I think. 

 

 

[sleazius]

1 hour ago, davidtran said:

If you don't have 20% extra maybe reconsider

This. You're looking at a 30 year old sports car, its already had a hard life by definition *because sports car*. On top of that it isn't 3 years old, but 30. What other car that you buy that is 30 years old and has 200k+ on the dial would you say to yourself "well, It should be in good enough condition that 1. I need to do nothing to it, and 2. I should be able to daily it"?

Start looking at old 911s through that lense and all this "gotta check the PPI", and "did I pay $3k too much on a $90k car?" seems ridiculous.

[symsy]

16 minutes ago, rminc said:

I disagree with that. It's not that I mind spending $20-30k extra on the car. It's more so that I want to make sure I'm getting value for what I am paying. 

If I pay top dollar for a 911 and need to spend another $20-30k on the car, it will end up being a $120k car. If for some reason my circumstances change, I will list it for sale for what it owes and I'm sure this thread will have comments calling me a dreamer with my pricing.

Take this car for example: https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-Carrera-1988/SSE-AD-5139381/?Cr=7
It can be had for $110k and it still hasn't sold. Is it only worth $100k? $105k? If it can be had for $105k is it worth paying the extra $17k for a later model? with less kms?

I'm just saying that I want to make sure I don't overpay for something. To me $88k in general isn't chump change and even for that car it's not ridiculously cheap. It's price as it should be (IMO).

Just what I think. 

 

 

lets just say its good value at that price

3.2 later car with G50 , for sure a better deal and  drive and worth more , it was a peach though,  31 year owned car , you dont keep a pig for 31 years!

Own up did someone buy it 

Or has some one else got it why we talk about whats BEST on PFA 

 

 

[hugh]

11 minutes ago, rminc said:

I disagree with that. It's not that I mind spending $20-30k extra on the car. It's more so that I want to make sure I'm getting value for what I am paying. 

If I pay top dollar for a 911 and need to spend another $20-30k on the car, it will end up being a $120k car. If for some reason my circumstances change, I will list it for sale for what it owes and I'm sure this thread will have comments calling me a dreamer with my pricing.

Take this car for example: https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-Carrera-1988/SSE-AD-5139381/?Cr=7
It can be had for $110k and it still hasn't sold. Is it only worth $100k? $105k? If it can be had for $105k is it worth paying the extra $17k for a later model? with less kms?

I'm just saying that I want to make sure I don't overpay for something. To me $88k in general isn't chump change and even for that car it's not ridiculously cheap. It's price as it should be (IMO).

Just what I think. 

I think you are spending too much time doing comparisons on Carsales and not enough time getting to understand what actually equates to "value" in these cars. Its nothing to do with the build year or kms (for G series cars at least), nor is it to do with speculating on the value of a car you haven't seen or driven. 

I'm just being honest with you, not trying to start an argument. I'd love for you buy a car but you need to be realistic in terms of creating a useful "value" assessment in terms of these cars. 

I've been an owner for 15+ years and I think the initial car in question is good value. I don't need another Carsales add to validate that - its easy if you know what to look for. You need to take every opportunity to get into and around these cars to get a feel for the difference in condition, how they drive etc. 

[Mike D'Silva]

4 minutes ago, hugh said:

I think you are spending too much time doing comparisons on Carsales and not enough time getting to understand what actually equates to "value" in these cars. Its nothing to do with the build year or kms (for G series cars at least), nor is it to do with speculating on the value of a car you haven't seen or driven. 

Some people like to make a career out of shopping for a car. We see it on a day to day basis. However, you will never learn as much watching and reading, compared to DOING. This is a good thing.. it allows those who can make fast decisions to get on with life and buy the good cars.

 

29 minutes ago, rminc said:

 If for some reason my circumstances change, I will list it for sale for what it owes and I'm sure this thread will have comments calling me a dreamer with my pricing.

Most investors say you shouldn't invest any money in the stock market, that you cannot live without. Ie, if you think you will need it, don't invest it. This rings true to the luxury car market too (at least I think so). Maybe an older Porsche isn't for you at this point in time.

 

[rminc]

5 minutes ago, hugh said:

I think you are spending too much time doing comparisons on Carsales and not enough time getting to understand what actually equates to "value" in these cars. Its nothing to do with the build year or kms (for G series cars at least), nor is it to do with speculating on the value of a car you haven't seen or driven. 

I'm just being honest with you, not trying to start an argument. I'd love for you buy a car but you need to be realistic in terms of creating a useful "value" assessment in terms of these cars. 

I've been an owner for 15+ years and I think the initial car in question is good value. I don't need another Carsales add to validate that - its easy if you know what to look for. You need to take every opportunity to get into and around these cars to get a feel for the difference in condition, how they drive etc. 

Likewise. You have shared a wealth of knowledge with me during my search which I am grateful for. I've driven 6 cars in the last 2 months, but with work commitments and time/travel constraints, it's hard to get out and drive every one. I've got quite a few pics of the cars I can't see and I've used those photos as best I can to gauge condition and whether or not it's worth making the trip out. 

I'm happy to wait a bit longer for the right car, I'm no longer in a rush.

1 minute ago, Mike D'Silva said:

Some people like to make a career out of shopping for a car. We see it on a day to day basis. However, you will never learn as much watching and reading, compared to DOING. This is a good thing.. it allows those who can make fast decisions to get on with life and buy the good cars.

 

Most investors say you shouldn't invest any money in the stock market, that you cannot live without. Ie, if you think you will need it, don't invest it. This rings true to the luxury car market too (at least I think so). Maybe an older Porsche isn't for you at this point in time.

 

How do you know what good cars are? Fast decision isn't always a good one.

What makes you think an older Porsche isn't for me? What are you basing this on? How do you know my current financial situation?

Comparing the stock market to buying a Porsche is a very interesting analogy and it's not something I agree with. If that's the reason you purchased maybe you shouldn't own a Porshce... I don't want one as an investment. I want one to drive and enjoy. To be honest, if i was buying one as an investment, now probably wouldn't be the best time to buy.

You've messaged me trying to sell me your car, but have not replied to my message asking for more details. Should I assume that you are trying to make a career out of wasting peoples time?

I understand where Hugh is coming from, but to be honest. I think you are talking for the sake of talking. There might be a bit butt hurt that I wasn't as interested in your car as you were hoping. I wouldn't bother replying anyway....

[JonoF]

*brings out the pop corn*