MFX Posted 26October, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 26October, 2019 This episode I continue building the 911 engine and talk a bit about converting to EFI. Scott930 and Philbee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZ930 Posted 26October, 2019 Report Share Posted 26October, 2019 If you can’t find the engine support or a replacement, consider getting an RSR style support, even if it’s just to suit the project. MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbaxter Posted 27October, 2019 Report Share Posted 27October, 2019 If you can’t find the og one I have one of these MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Cat Posted 28October, 2019 Report Share Posted 28October, 2019 On 27/10/2019 at 12:10, Ashbaxter said: If you can’t find the og one I have one of these is that rennline`s one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbaxter Posted 28October, 2019 Report Share Posted 28October, 2019 I think so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Cat Posted 28October, 2019 Report Share Posted 28October, 2019 27 minutes ago, Ashbaxter said: I think so you got it for sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbaxter Posted 28October, 2019 Report Share Posted 28October, 2019 Yeah sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 2November, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 2November, 2019 This week I go into what I am doing with the ignition system on the 911 engine. Scott930 and Raven 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted 2November, 2019 Report Share Posted 2November, 2019 I like that Porsche parts site Mate ............great idea MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 2November, 2019 Report Share Posted 2November, 2019 Jeff, No need to be anxious with Mj ratings, your CoP's will work fine. For my build I used the Nippon Denso coil on plugs (Denso 90919-02234) that are commonly used in Lexus and V6 Camry's that the turbo boys on Pelican swear by (I think because that's what Chris at TurboKraft recommends) Others use the VW/Audi CoP's (Bosch 0986 221 024) successfully which are cheaper and if the dwell is kept less than 2ms, very reliable. I also think the VW/Audi ones would be easier to mount as the height of the coil top is less and that I think would mean less bending and reshaping of the RSR plug holders to hold them in place. Both these CoP's have built in ignitors and are readily available from eBay. I would use the VW/Audi ones next time. For my lower valve covers, I found I could buy a set of aluminium 964 overs cheaper than I could modify my stock ones. Just had to enlarge the holes to fit the larger studs that the 3.2's use in comparison to the 964 ones. Also allowed me to use the modern moulded and reusable rubber cover seals. Pleased you went twin plug because with modern ECU's there is no reason not to and I think well worth it irrespective of the compression ratio as the combustion chambers on these cars are shithouse. My set up before I tidied up the O2 sensor wiring. What ECU and sensors are you using? There are a couple of things I would do differently next time to save time and money. Cheshire Cat and MFX 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 2November, 2019 Report Share Posted 2November, 2019 Those lower valve cover studs, sure have a lot of extra length... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 2November, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 2November, 2019 11 hours ago, Peter M said: Jeff, No need to be anxious with Mj ratings, your CoP's will work fine. For my build I used the Nippon Denso coil on plugs (Denso 90919-02234) that are commonly used in Lexus and V6 Camry's that the turbo boys on Pelican swear by (I think because that's what Chris at TurboKraft recommends) Others use the VW/Audi CoP's (Bosch 0986 221 024) successfully which are cheaper and if the dwell is kept less than 2ms, very reliable. I also think the VW/Audi ones would be easier to mount as the height of the coil top is less and that I think would mean less bending and reshaping of the RSR plug holders to hold them in place. Both these CoP's have built in ignitors and are readily available from eBay. I would use the VW/Audi ones next time. For my lower valve covers, I found I could buy a set of aluminium 964 overs cheaper than I could modify my stock ones. Just had to enlarge the holes to fit the larger studs that the 3.2's use in comparison to the 964 ones. Also allowed me to use the modern moulded and reusable rubber cover seals. Pleased you went twin plug because with modern ECU's there is no reason not to and I think well worth it irrespective of the compression ratio as the combustion chambers on these cars are shithouse. My set up before I tidied up the O2 sensor wiring. What ECU and sensors are you using? There are a couple of things I would do differently next time to save time and money. With my compression I wanted to go for the biggest spark possible. I know guys use LS coils, etc, which work fine. It seems like there is a bit of contention about how much spark is necessary, but Neil is a big proponent of more spark = more hp. As for ECU I am going with a Link Extreme. I will be running ITB's with TPS, twin knock sensors, Air temp, surface temp, and probably twin O2 sensors as well. I am also going fly by wire throttle which should be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 2November, 2019 Report Share Posted 2November, 2019 Not sure if you've heard of them or not @MFX, yet surface discharge plugs sound like the go for optimum flame spread in the combustion chamber with higher comp engines. I know it's a lot different application, yet I used them in two stroke karts which 'felt' like it gave greater torque. I also used them in my 916 Ducati and 1000cc racebikes which definitley had better throttle response. Might be worth a look for you (I used the ones on the right with no exposed electrode) http://www.ngkntk.com.br/site_ingles/direct/p12.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 2November, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 2November, 2019 2 hours ago, LeeM said: Not sure if you've heard of them or not @MFX, yet surface discharge plugs sound like the go for optimum flame spread in the combustion chamber with higher comp engines. I know it's a lot different application, yet I used them in two stroke karts which 'felt' like it gave greater torque. I also used them in my 916 Ducati and 1000cc racebikes which definitley had better throttle response. Might be worth a look for you (I used the ones on the right with no exposed electrode) http://www.ngkntk.com.br/site_ingles/direct/p12.html Interesting. I was aware of them, but did not consider them. I will see how I go with the Iridiums for now. They made a HUGE difference on my Z. Particularly the cold starts and fouling a whole lot less. LeeM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 3November, 2019 Report Share Posted 3November, 2019 8 hours ago, Mike D'Silva said: Those lower valve cover studs, sure have a lot of extra length... A bit of extra length never goes astray Mike! 😊 They're actually standard length 3.2 studs but with the 964 covers used, there is more ah .. penetration... A bit more was needed for the RSR mounts and idea was for some of the others to mount hex couplers to allow heat shields to bolt on. That's got a bit to hard as the Nippon Denso coils are a bit more bulky than I expected (and one of the reasons why I suggest to others to use the flatter topped VW/Audi coils) and the clearance to the headers a bit tighter too. I think I'll just ceramic coat my headers rather than try to make heat shields for the same effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 3November, 2019 Report Share Posted 3November, 2019 8 hours ago, MFX said: As for ECU I am going with a Link Extreme. I will be running ITB's with TPS, twin knock sensors, Air temp, surface temp, and probably twin O2 sensors as well. I am also going fly by wire throttle which should be interesting. Good stuff! And not doing things by halves either! You're at a point of your engine build where I wish I'd stopped for a moment and carefully planned out what I exactly wanted. For example mounting a knock sensor is a hell of a lot easier when the engine is out and on the stand rather than trying to do it when it's back in the car. Same with the o2 sensors, weld the second bung on before the headers they are bolted on rather than having to take them off later to do so. Where are you mounting the knock sensors? If you go twin knock sensors, definitely go two O2 sensors so you can do individual cylinder trims for fuel and ignition. Running DBW with ITB's will be interesting. Will you have a single actuator controlling the standard Porsche throttle consul that then operates the push (or is it pull?) rods to the 2 throttle body banks? Running DBW also allows you to set up cruise control with the Link Xtreme. Also I recall in a previous video that you said you would run wasted spark but notice you have a cam position sensor mounted and enough ignition outputs on the Link Xtreme not to need to gang multiple cylinders. ie no need to waste! Have you settled on a tuner or are you going to do that yourself as well? Really looking forward to this part of the build...if that wasn't already obvious!😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 3November, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 3November, 2019 2 hours ago, Peter M said: Good stuff! And not doing things by halves either! You're at a point of your engine build where I wish I'd stopped for a moment and carefully planned out what I exactly wanted. For example mounting a knock sensor is a hell of a lot easier when the engine is out and on the stand rather than trying to do it when it's back in the car. Same with the o2 sensors, weld the second bung on before the headers they are bolted on rather than having to take them off later to do so. Where are you mounting the knock sensors? If you go twin knock sensors, definitely go two O2 sensors so you can do individual cylinder trims for fuel and ignition. Running DBW with ITB's will be interesting. Will you have a single actuator controlling the standard Porsche throttle consul that then operates the push (or is it pull?) rods to the 2 throttle body banks? Running DBW also allows you to set up cruise control with the Link Xtreme. Also I recall in a previous video that you said you would run wasted spark but notice you have a cam position sensor mounted and enough ignition outputs on the Link Xtreme not to need to gang multiple cylinders. ie no need to waste! Have you settled on a tuner or are you going to do that yourself as well? Really looking forward to this part of the build...if that wasn't already obvious!😊 I haven't workout out the location of the knock sensors yet, but that will be soon. I have ordered an extremely expensive M5 throttle motor to control the ITB's off of the same single linkage you could connect the cable to. Cruise control is one of the options I was looking at with the DBW, but also idle control and it can even be set up so that the throttle is not linear, so there is a lot of flexibility. I mentioned what wasted spark is, but I am going with one channel per cylinder (Extreme has 8). Still working out who I am going to approach to tune it. Peter M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 6November, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 6November, 2019 In this episode I build my own heat exchangers for the 911. Troubleshooter, Scott930 and clutch-monkey 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 13November, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 13November, 2019 This week I finish connecting the heat exchangers and then work out some other mounts. Raven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 13November, 2019 Report Share Posted 13November, 2019 Jeff, Have you mounted your o2 sensors so that they are at least 10 degrees above the horizontal to allow them to drain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 13November, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 13November, 2019 11 hours ago, Peter M said: Jeff, Have you mounted your o2 sensors so that they are at least 10 degrees above the horizontal to allow them to drain? I need to go back and make sure now. I am worried I didn't put enough angle on them. Peter M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 20November, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 20November, 2019 I have been dying to put my shiny new ITB's onto the engine for a while and they look so good. Raven, Scott930, firstone and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 28November, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 28November, 2019 This week I talk about what is involved with converting one of these old engines to EFI and start to wire it up. tomo, Peter M and Scott930 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 5December, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 5December, 2019 In this episode I continue with the Link ECU wiring layout, preparing it to cover it and make the whole thing a nice tidy layout. firstone and OZ930 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 5December, 2019 Report Share Posted 5December, 2019 Jeff, Don't sweat having to have your bell crank angles being parallel across the full range of throttle opening. Although a sound mechanical approach to achieve angular linearity, remember an advantage of DBW is that you can adjust the relationship between the throttle pedal depression and the actuator bell crank angle across the full range of the throttle opening through a table in the ECU. Consequently I suggest you keep the mounting of the actuator as simple as possible and if you find the opening to be unsatisfyingly "non linear", use the wizardry in the ECU to give the feel you want, just like modern cars do. (Linearity is all a bit of a misnomer anyway as the flow through a butterfly valve is hardly linear against butterfly angle.) MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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