996-7 Turbo Market Watch

[BNR34]

50 minutes ago, MFX said:

Both cars seem overpriced to me. Like it or not, in the Porsche world the most expensive version of a model when new is the Auto, cab, the cheapest is the manual coupe. In the second hand market the reverse is true. Generally in the second hand market, an auto is normally around 20% or so less than the manual, and an import is generally also around another 20% discount. This is all approximations but is not far off the mark. If the current market is somewhere around the + or - $160k mark for reasonable manual, then both of those cars seem pretty high to me. As for what will hold it's value, if you buy any Porsche at a good market price and, it generally will still go up as much as the rest percentage wise. the 20% margins will remain, just at a higher or lower price point.

I will say, that after being in both the auto and manual 996 turbos, the auto just lacks the visceral emotion. The auto is fine but not overly exciting, the manual is a weapon.

 

I agree with all of this. Except I reckon over time, the discount for an auto will grow and yhe discount for an import will probably reduce a bit 

[tomo]

18 minutes ago, BNR34 said:

I agree with all of this. Except I reckon over time, the discount for an auto will grow and yhe discount for an import will probably reduce a bit 

Not necessarily a growing discount for tips, As people get older things stop working, knees  Hips Autos give people in that category a chance to keep driving their Porka it's all good 4 u young whipper snappers

[smit2100]

1 hour ago, MFX said:

Both cars seem overpriced to me. Like it or not, in the Porsche world the most expensive version of a model when new is the Auto, cab, the cheapest is the manual coupe. In the second hand market the reverse is true. Generally in the second hand market, an auto is normally around 20% or so less than the manual, and an import is generally also around another 20% discount. This is all approximations but is not far off the mark. If the current market is somewhere around the + or - $160k mark for reasonable manual, then both of those cars seem pretty high to me. As for what will hold it's value, if you buy any Porsche at a good market price and, it generally will still go up as much as the rest percentage wise. the 20% margins will remain, just at a higher or lower price point.

I will say, that after being in both the auto and manual 996 turbos, the auto just lacks the visceral emotion. The auto is fine but not overly exciting, the manual is a weapon.

 

As  the king of serious home build tweaking, re "Manual is weapon".  Reckon an asterisk footnote is missing or you hit the send button too early

For some, scratching the 996 turbo itch is purely based on how transformational the car is if  you venture into some tweaking and don't give a toss about whats it worth except for how much was the EFT spend  to secure one.   After that, how much you lose if you offload  vs smile per mile when you can stretch its legs and do that third gear pull and the cars response doesn't come into play.   

What other P car can you spend the following time and money on an TRULY  transform the driving experience with gross tangible evidence based on a butt dyno.

Brought a stock one except for a gembella shortshifter. Rumour has it that the 996 factory  mechanism with worn plastics is bad.  Shortshifter twas oo knotchy for my liking and not hard to miss  3rd gear.  Third gear is the standout out in terms launching the weapon.

The first stage into makng a weapon was as follows:

a) Piss off the gembella  short shifter and put in a new factory 997 stock shifter  mechanism ( AUD 350 Back in the day for the shifter and 1 hr workshop time)

b) new tranny and engine mounts   997 part numbers (AUD 450 and 2 hours workshop tie)

c) kline exhaust and was  interested unless supplier  incorporated  HJS 100 cel race cats (non negotiable and proven based on my experience) - AUD 4995 back in the day and 2 hours wrenching)

d) Hookup a secondary battery , plug in the cobb assessport (1150 aud back in the day) .    10 minutes on the battery setup and 4 minutes on the assessport - download stage 2 93ron off the self preloaded tune

So within a day and a  chunk of change left over from 10k even if your not a wrencher.

Weapon = easy 50hp / 50ft/lb .   No vacuum cleaner 991 Carrera tinny exhaust note.   The  mezger note is not just enjoyed by 996 gt3 owners Above 5,500rpm  in the cabin and outside,  what a beast a engine note above 5500 rpm compared to the anemic stock note.   Stock turbo lag is shocking,  throttle response with tune and free flowing exhaust is transformational.  3rd gear manual pull is worth every bit of the extra spent to grab one with three pedals.   ESC button, stock, leave it on / off no biggy.  Tweaked, plenty additional torque on tap, easy to get the back end out and leaving the esc button on is a must)  Ultimately the above tweaks about throttle response (reduce lag) not the increased hp /tq.  

997 New shifter and mounts much better shifts

 

Never experienced a third gear pull and getting the back end a little out of shape in an auto 996 turbo, but surely the driving pleasure on the road of doing that with full engagement of your left foot and left hand and nailing a shift whilst seeing at least one bar of boost on your boost gauge is indeed dramatic and can't compare that to one flicking you thumb on a steering wheel button.

@kiwiland7r- Just a view but appears where you are ultimately going  is on a path of dichotomy / confliction.  You appear to be focused on market value, / not losing dollars, yet chasing an auto. 996 turbo clutch is feather light.  Just a view but with your risk aversion surely spend the premium upfront for a manual.  (variabilty in upside, flatness  downside will be more optimal than an auto me thinks.   Priced right, a manual will be  more liquid over an auto if you are cash crunched

 

 

 

[JLD]

6 hours ago, smit2100 said:

 

 

Never experienced a third gear pull and getting the back end a little out of shape in an auto 996 turbo, but surely the driving pleasure on the road of doing that with full engagement of your left foot and left hand and nailing a shift whilst seeing at least one bar of boost on your boost gauge is indeed dramatic and can't compare that to one flicking you thumb on a steering wheel button.

@kiwiland7r- Just a view but appears where you are ultimately going  is on a path of dichotomy / confliction.  You appear to be focused on market value, / not losing dollars, yet chasing an auto. 996 turbo clutch is feather light.  Just a view but with your risk aversion surely spend the premium upfront for a manual.  (variabilty in upside, flatness  downside will be more optimal than an auto me thinks.   Priced right, a manual will be  more liquid over an auto if you are cash crunched

 

 

 

Of course this all goes out the window if he can’t/doesn’t want to drive a manual….

[flamingporsche]

That low mile silver turbo is way overpriced and has been on the market forever. Yes, it has ridiculously low mileage, but that’s just not valued in auto turbo buyers. If you intend driving the car - which I hope you do because the world whipping past on boost is something that you never get tired of - anyway if you are going to drive it then any “premium” you are tipping in for an ultra low mile dust collector gets rapidly diminished. Kms and smiles from ear to ear plus a smattering of stone chips erode your mileage premium pretty quickly. So buy one with a realistic price and drive the wheels off it no fuchs given. If an auto gearbox is a must, you need to accept that a tipper turbo just isn’t seen as a collectible with guaranteed price stability or appreciation. Buy a good quality lower priced car and if you still want to use that cash burning a hole in your pocket, do as Smit suggests with a light series of modifications- money well spent and recognised by future buyers as mods that haven’t detracted from the car but enhanced it 

[Joz]

@smit2100

Im curious about the Cobb.

Is there one particular tune you use constantly or do you change them according to mood or driving conditions?

I ask as I’m wondering whether to get a Cobb or dyno tune?

[mc968cs]

2 hours ago, JLD said:

Of course this all goes out the window if he can’t/doesn’t want to drive a manual….

...or has little interest in modifying a car....

[Kiwiland7r]

3 hours ago, JLD said:

Of course this all goes out the window if he can’t/doesn’t want to drive a manual….

Thanks for your replies. This point has nailed exactly why I'm not looking for a manual. Somewhere between 'can't' and 'doesn't' lies the real truth - not very proficient with manual and looking for a proper daily/city driver car.

 

It would appear the common consensus is go for the better price over lower mileage.

 

In the spirit of making these cars easier to drive, does anyone have any experience with getting the PCCM plus installed in these 996s? Despite it being a pricey upgrade, the possiblity of doing such a thing I find very appealing. Thoughts?

[tomo]

A bit of discussion here.

 

[on_booost]

Seems to be a lot of butt hurt in this thread from current/former/ owners..... but in April 2022, no prices are going down.

I just checked CS - There are 7 x 996 Turbos for sale.

2 x Manual @ $170K and $180K Asking (forgetting the $300K monstrosity)

4 x Auto - other than the silver outlier - all around $140K asking.

Thats the market right there. Today. Now. Not 2 years ago - where's your time machine?

Yes they are asking prices but there is a $30K difference between Auto vs. Man.

Always has been and always will be. 

As @MFX stated - Aussie delivery will always be at a premium (not saying its right but its just the way it is) and the manual always worth more than an Auto. (again its reality)

The "you should buy this manual over that auto" debate - is a moot point here. Not the same buyer. Clearly.

The thing that has thrown a lot of us is the collectable / lose money question....... None of these cars on offer here are collectable. The one with super low klms isn't even considered a collector grade - its got 20K klms... ffs - but its the closest one..... if you don't want to drive it and are a collector.... They made too many.

A boosted merger is a beautiful thing. A mildly modified one even better. A properly modified one is scary fast, but not everyones cup of tea.

To the OP - Buy on condition and want/need. The import one might be considered by some to be a worse colour (not me) but may be in better condition. These cars require proper maintenance. A poorly maintanied Aussie delivered one is still a sh!tbox.

My Crystal Ball batteries are flat - you may lose you may not. its a car, not an investment. In these weird times we currently live in - some flippers are making money. Most accidentally at that.....

P>S all the above is my opinion only - and i know nothing.

[LeeM]

12 hours ago, tomo said:

Not necessarily a growing discount for tips, As people get older things stop working, knees  Hips Autos give people in that category a chance to keep driving their Porka it's all good 4 u young whipper snappers

 Oh how I know this is very true! 

 Ooh I dunno @on_booost

I reckon you've hit the nail on the head a few times there

[Boosh]

4 hours ago, Joz said:

@smit2100

Im curious about the Cobb.

Is there one particular tune you use constantly or do you change them according to mood or driving conditions?

I ask as I’m wondering whether to get a Cobb or dyno tune?

Just wanted to note that Cobb no longer ships with stage 2 tunes so for that reason I would get a dyno tune. Cobb have dyno partners but why pay $1400 for a Cobb then pay again for the tune. 

You can change the tune in a few minutes but it is recommended to change it when on a trickle charger, as if you battery dies during the flash you are in trouble. It's a set and forget thing for me but you need to keep in mind the fuel requirements e.g. don't use 95 on a 98 tune.

 

[MFX]

22 hours ago, BNR34 said:

I agree with all of this. Except I reckon over time, the discount for an auto will grow and yhe discount for an import will probably reduce a bit 

 

22 hours ago, tomo said:

Not necessarily a growing discount for tips, As people get older things stop working, knees  Hips Autos give people in that category a chance to keep driving their Porka it's all good 4 u young whipper snappers

I totally get the younger generation never being exposed to manuals and the older generation not being able to drive them anymore. I still tend to agree that the manual may well grow more above and beyond the auto. Particularly in this generation, as you only have to go to 997 Gen 2 to get PDK and then you can still get the most out of the car, if not more than the manual version. The more new cars come out in the future, the more choice in the second hand market for PDK's. I will say that the tip gearbox does lose a lot of emotion in 911's, the tip in a regular Carrera is much more fun than in the Turbo. The tip lag does the turbo lag no favours  

The import thing is here to stay in Aus though, as dumb as it is. It has been a thing for decades and it still will hold in the future. Either way, as long as you buy well and look after the car, it will still go up with the market. There will always be people who are willing to pay a premium for an Aus delivered car, but there will aways be people who will jump on a bargain import and the only time you or anyone else knows the little bit of paper is any different is the day you buy and the day you sell.. Make sure you save 20% when you buy and accept that when you come to sell you will have to accept the same 20% going out.

[1q2w3e4r]

PR Tech at Brookevale, or you could use Autohaus at Chatswood   The main dealerships could also do it, there's probably some other independents (BWA at Seven Hills amongst others) that other members can advise on

PR do my cars.

[luzzo]

30 minutes ago, Kiwiland7r said:

Anyone have any recommendations on a good mechanic/place to get a Pcar inspected in Sydney, NSW before purchasing?

I would also recommend PRTech. I have been saved by their trusted opinions. 

https://www.prtechnology.com.au/ 

 

 

[911virgin]

On 19/04/2022 at 18:55, the_sovereign_man said:

The 991 was the highest volume of any Porsche to date. Something like quarter of a million units worldwide from memory.

Wow, higher than the macan? I thought the macan held that distinction

[Sov]

On 22/04/2022 at 19:35, 911virgin said:

Wow, higher than the macan? I thought the macan held that distinction

I should have specified 911s, not Porsches. I think the Macan is more than half a million already.

*Update - more than 670,000 Macan*

[mc968cs]

Hi, does anyone know if cars that are listed on the WOVR system can qualify for Rally Rego in NSW?  I have tried to review the data online - its not very clear (to my mind anyway). 

https://www.my105.com/search/details/2007-porsche-997-turbo/37559ac7-c33f-4a44-98c6-2ade253acb2d

I am short a track toy at present and this got me thinking.  

So......

1. Appreciate feedback on that, thanks in advance.

2. Also if anyone knows more of that car - let me know please. 

[911virgin]

9 hours ago, the_sovereign_man said:

I should have specified 911s, not Porsches. I think the Macan is more than half a million already.

*Update - more than 670,000 Macan*

Ah, that makes sense..... Prior to the 991...... The highest number of 911 sales was the 996, then bested by the 997.... Despite the gfc.....I'm quite sure... Notice a trend here?

991' s are not uncommon or rare or scarce except for  the speedster, turbo S exclusive and a few other less common variants

9 hours ago, the_sovereign_man said:

 

@Kiwiland7r.

Just saw on PCV marketplace. 

 

Andrew 0418 738 876

2003 996 turbo manual 64000kms silver

Rego KWN 996

Asking $147500......seems very reasonable in today's market

Car looks a bit familiar? Was on CS A FEW  months ago??

 

[Sov]

8 hours ago, 911virgin said:

Just saw on PCV marketplace

Does it look lower than standard to anyone else? Maybe it's an illusion from the wheels?

[NAC911]

15 hours ago, mc968cs said:

Hi, does anyone know if cars that are listed on the WOVR system can qualify for Rally Rego in NSW?  I have tried to review the data online - its not very clear (to my mind anyway). 

https://www.my105.com/search/details/2007-porsche-997-turbo/37559ac7-c33f-4a44-98c6-2ade253acb2d

I am short a track toy at present and this got me thinking.  

So......

1. Appreciate feedback on that, thanks in advance.

2. Also if anyone knows more of that car - let me know please. 

Put on the written off register in 2016 due to suspected cracked engine block.
No crack, No repairs

There it is. 

You, should be able to get that removed.

There's repairable write offs too.

[tomo]

I do not think engine damage will put it on the wovr  , It has to be structural.

[BNR34]

7 minutes ago, tomo said:

I do not think engine damage will put it on the wovr  , It has to be structural.

It is any insurance write off. The register was more about stopping crime than safety.

I am guessing the car had a rear ender and insurance company wrote it off because they were worried about engine/transaxle damage

[NAC911]

2 minutes ago, BNR34 said:

It is any insurance write off. The register was more about stopping crime than safety.

I am guessing the car had a rear ender and insurance company wrote it off because they were worried about engine/transaxle damage

I'd say that's very likely. It will be an economic write off not structural one, meaning if you get it engineered it can be re registered. 

[Joz]

23 hours ago, 911virgin said:

Ah, that makes sense..... Prior to the 991...... The highest number of 911 sales was the 996, then bested by the 997.... Despite the gfc.....I'm quite sure... Notice a trend here?

991' s are not uncommon or rare or scarce except for  the speedster, turbo S exclusive and a few other less common variants

@Kiwiland7r.

Just saw on PCV marketplace. 

 

Andrew 0418 738 876

2003 996 turbo manual 64000kms silver

Rego KWN 996

Asking $147500......seems very reasonable in today's market

Car looks a bit familiar? Was on CS A FEW  months ago??

 

That car was sold a few months ago.

Bought by a young guy just a few doors up from me. Lovely looking car overall . Apparently had some new paint to bring it up to it’s current condition.