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Niko

TURBO 4 CAYMAN BOXSTER A MISTAKE?

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1 hour ago, Niko said:

https://carbuzz.com/news/porsche-admits-turbo-four-was-a-mistake?fbclid=IwAR2-PdD36y8Ij_lJqgHN4wuaPSaPA3nqXUQMJp_wVBCjxsCrzy_72FYQAVc

CAYMAN 718 may be getting a new FLAT-SIX........PLUS...mention of a GT4 TOURING.....and/or a CAYMAN GTS 4.0

 

New car coming Niko? You know you want to.

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13 hours ago, Niko said:

https://carbuzz.com/news/porsche-admits-turbo-four-was-a-mistake?fbclid=IwAR2-PdD36y8Ij_lJqgHN4wuaPSaPA3nqXUQMJp_wVBCjxsCrzy_72FYQAVc

CAYMAN 718 may be getting a new FLAT-SIX........PLUS...mention of a GT4 TOURING.....and/or a CAYMAN GTS 4.0

 

I spent a day doing an extended test drive of a 718 Cayman S doing quite a bit of the SMT route. Everything about the car except the engine sound  and reverb in the cabin is superb!

Handling, ride and power delivery is excellent, being a turbo significantly more torque down low than the N/A six.  

 

I have subsequently learnt that some of the sound in the cabin is due to a Soundaktor creating artificial (bad) sound in the cabin. Problem is also that is creates a resonance and rattles various different pieces of interior trim at different points during the rev range. I would be really interested to drive it with that soundakator module disconnected. 

 

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They were never going to get my money for a Turbo 4 Cayman. A 4.0 6 now that's another matter. It seems Porsche  may eventually deliver on my deposit for a GT(RS) Cayman with PDK but a 4.0 GTS would be worth looking at.

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I agree the previous 981 version with the flat 6 is far more desirable to me than the 718 with the turbo 4 power plant ,,,,if they can put a flat 6 in the the new 718 GT4  and spyder why not offer other version with a similar power plant and perhaps just keep the turbo 4 as the entry level motor ,eg  GTS model with a flat 6 detuned some were in between the base and GT4 models ,,,,,,Porsche has done a back flip before when sales have fallen ,,,,,I honesty hope they do away with the Turbo 4 entirely and use different tuned versions of the flat 6 

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9 hours ago, Raven said:

I agree the previous 981 version with the flat 6 is far more desirable to me than the 718 with the turbo 4 power plant ,,,,if they can put a flat 6 in the the new 718 GT4  and spyder why not offer other version with a similar power plant and perhaps just keep the turbo 4 as the entry level motor ,eg  GTS model with a flat 6 detuned some were in between the base and GT4 models ,,,,,,Porsche has done a back flip before when sales have fallen ,,,,,I honesty hope they do away with the Turbo 4 entirely and use different tuned versions of the flat 6 

And it certainly shows in the current secondhand market. I’ve seen much younger 718 examples being marketed at prices close or below 981 variants.

Ironic as they are faster, and enjoy a few enhancements in the chassis (brakes) over the 981 but it seems  the sound turns people away like it did me. 
I really wanted to like it however as previously stated after doing a considerable test a few years back I couldn’t do it. In fact when I jumped back into mine instantly it felt so much smoother and refined without all the resonance. The 718 S was a demonstrator so virtually new,a really pity because it really is an excellent chassis and certainly felt like it had more urge than my friends 981S.

 

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I have seen and heard the car. The Cayman 6 will be a GTS 4.0 with 375-380 hp and will be marketed alongside existing GTS models which will be kept for markets such as China which penalise engines over 3.0. 

I personally really like the 2.5 GTS. It’s a stinking engine that pulls very hard. In the real world, it will be faster than GTS 4.0.

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15 hours ago, GC9911 said:

New car coming Niko? You know you want to.

ha ha, no pretty happy with the BBC.   I'm just a tyre kicker...

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Removing the sound actor does improve the sound. It is no six but it is not a bad sound and more so muffled due to the turbo. It is not loud like an NA six and it is more palatable to people coming from other makes rather than Porsche traditionalists.

I think the problem has been that Porsche penalises/handycaps the cayman/boxter for obvious reasons. However, for those who care the turbo 4 in the S/GTS variant closed this gap and APR has just released a stage 1 tune for the GTS with 442hp and 570NM which pulls all the way to the red line with a 65hp increase bringing GT3 performance. Aside from the long gearing in the manual for alpine style 2nd/3rd gear roads with multiple rapid accelerations I think the PDK 2.5t GTS is the superior car over the GT4 for those conditions. Though I think these advantages will be less evident when the GT4 gets PDK and/or for track work.

So personally, performance wise I'm not so sure the 2.5t was a mistake and if Australia gets the particulate filter in the GT4 or GTS 4.0 you are not going to be compensated with the sound which is far from the nice sounding flat six engine of the old.

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9 hours ago, StevepGT3 said:

It would be far more palatable with a really quiet exhaust, If something sounds shit, don`t amplify it.

And what was PCA's response with the consumers indifference to the sound????..... Sports exhaust standard!!! Exact opposite of what should have been done.

1. Piss off the stupid Soundaktor 

2. Remove the uneven lengths of the headers (ie) remove the Subaru style throb

3. Tune out the resonant frequencies that create resonate in the cabin

During the introduction of this model I watched a video about Porsche going to considerable efforts to tune the sound of the vehicle.... IMHO they need to revisit the brief on that one.

As I stated previously the engine's performance is not the issue , the chassis is superb, the steering felt maybe even slightly better than my mates 981S (with steering plus option) however a little less feedback than what I'm used to with my 987.2

 

9 hours ago, Niko said:

ha ha, no pretty happy with the BBC.   I'm just a tyre kicker...

And why would you not be happy with the BBC!!!

1 hour ago, donR said:

Removing the sound actor does improve the sound. It is no six but it is not a bad sound and more so muffled due to the turbo. It is not loud like an NA six and it is more palatable to people coming from other makes rather than Porsche traditionalists.

I think the problem has been that Porsche penalises/handycaps the cayman/boxter for obvious reasons. However, for those who care the turbo 4 in the S/GTS variant closed this gap and APR has just released a stage 1 tune for the GTS with 442hp and 570NM which pulls all the way to the red line with a 65hp increase bringing GT3 performance. Aside from the long gearing in the manual for alpine style 2nd/3rd gear roads with multiple rapid accelerations I think the PDK 2.5t GTS is the superior car over the GT4 for those conditions. Though I think these advantages will be less evident when the GT4 gets PDK and/or for track work.

So personally, performance wise I'm not so sure the 2.5t was a mistake and if Australia gets the particulate filter in the GT4 or GTS 4.0 you are not going to be compensated with the sound which is far from the nice sounding flat six engine of the old.

And that was/is the issue for me. EVERYTHING about the vehicle is superb however it just does not sound like a $150k+ vehicle and the sound is a deal breaker for me.

 

 

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I drove someone else’s 718.  They bought it because sports car and expensive.  I said it sounded like a wrx and they said ‘a what?’.  It drove great but I couldn’t outrun that Subaru right behind me.

porsche don’t care about us 6 loving anoraks they care about governments and people willing to sign lease agreeements.  Yes, that’s short sighted because the enthusiasts are the ones that keep the used values high when the warranty is done.  But I try and look at what is actually happening not what I think should happen.  And they have made the wrong decision on the 718 and aren’t likely to fix it.

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1 hour ago, Coastr said:

They bought it because sports car and expensive.  

I’ve seen quite a few 718 Boxsters driven by 40 - 60 year old women of late.  I’m probably unfairly stereotyping here but......I suspect these buyers are not aware of or concerned by 4 vs 6 debate and the sound concerns and just want a sporty drop top and the Porsche badge works for them.  

I’d imagine a sensible play would be maintain flat 4 Boxster for the sporty drop top market and change Cayman to NA 6 for the drivers.  I don’t see much demand for a Boxster 6 (buy a Spyder) or a Cayman 4.

Peter Fitzgerald was doing 1:17s  (991 GT3 fast) around Sandown recently in his tweaked 2.5T Boxster but it did sound shit, like a WRX.  Hard to get excited about that but even GT4 won’t get close to those lap times.  

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Sound aside, I would of thought more people gravitate to it as a cheaper track day hack with tuning potential being an FI motor.... good to see Fitzy picked up what was being put down! ^^

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 Heard one at Richmonds showroom 😂😂 No thanks

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I drove the 718 Cayman and the 718 Boxster S.

Handed them back feeling my 986 was more fun than either of them, and that if I wanted a wrx i'd buy a wrx...so I did!

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On 07/01/2020 at 09:41, DJM said:

I’ve seen quite a few 718 Boxsters driven by 40 - 60 year old women of late.

Yep, my wife has a 718 Boxster S, and loves it!

At best it sounds like a WRX, at worst it sounds like its dragging an empty plastic bucket. Ugh. 

I much prefer our 987 Boxster S!

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24 minutes ago, NevB said:

 at worst it sounds like its dragging an empty plastic bucket. Ugh. 

 😂😂 

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Well, I had the choice between a 981 GTS and a 718 GTS having driven both quite a number of times, amongst other similar cars including 911s.

IMO the 981 was too noisy for my liking, whereas the 718 is a quieter car and more comfortable car when cruising, I'd say the engine noise is absent. So for road trips or as a daily it is a better and quieter car which was important for me and my wife. Though, it still has a nice ring to it between 5000 - 7300 RPM and pulls hard to the red line so has the performance to match. I think saying it sounds like a WRX is not quite true.

The 981 does have a better NA sound across the rev range and it is great for enthusiasts that always want to hear the engine but it is no GT3 and as mentioned it is not as quiet while cruising. The 981 has a better sound at cold start up, whereas the 718 sounds a bit clunky but like a lot of engines once it warms up it quietens down so it isn't an issue.

Coming from high powered turbo cars, the 981 felt too slow for me and the performance options like PTV and other performance enhancements that are in the 718 GTS were not there in the 981 GTS. The 718 being a turbo car is more drivable and also has a lot more future potential to give for those that want it. I think it will become quite a desirable car in the future for those not caught up in Porsche nostalgia and those wanting a high performing car with tuning potential.

I think like myself the 718 is of more interest to people coming from other turbo charged makes like Mercedes, Audi and BMW or even Subaru, or people who are after a more modern, comfortable or quieter sports car. Not necessarily one that has the nostalgia of the flat 6.

Although I like some things better on the 981 I think overall the aesthetics of the 718 has improved and most people elsewhere seem to think so. It is a nice looking car and well proportioned. Would I have preferred a noisier and lower performing NA 6 in a 718, probably not, and they were never going to fit a turbo 6 or a GT3 engine so the 2.5 t was the next best thing. The NA 4.0 six is coming for those of you that need it but it won't have the performance of the 2.5 t and if it gets the particulate filter it wont have the sound either.

Was the 718 a mistake? For a lot of us I don't think so and Porsche Cayman/Boxter sales at 26,427 units in 2017 and 23,658 in 2018 in comparison with prior years is not too shabby in what has become a more competitive and niche market segment. So I don't think Porsche is too unhappy about it either! 

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$198k drive away seems cheap... is that without LCT?  
 

Using the configurator this morning I was able to option 20k pretty easily, but still it seems like good value 🤔

...if only there was a PDK option...

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Not cheap when a 981 GT4 can be had for 160k?

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Turbo 4 cayman boxster a mistake?

I think the mistake is Porsche not introducing or supporting a turbo 4 cayman in a highly boosted track weapon.

Think big multiple intercoolers, excessive aero package, bulging fenders surrounding lots of rubber. And add lightness.

Yes the GT4 has a better sound, throttle response & more usable street package but a highly boosted turbo 4 would add street cred to the 718. 

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