992 GT3 market watch

[wilson59]

Just now, sleazius said:

I am, just not over inflated 911s 😉

Yes just not that . I think if you can buy one in the high $400K you would not regret it .

But yes $600,000 is just stupid 

[DJM]

On 13/12/2022 at 16:02, TwoHeadsTas said:

Sheesh, change in circumstances, they could have cancelled the order and not taken delivery, I've sure the next person down the list would have been more than appreciative.  Certainly don't suspect the dealer would would have been stuck with it, per @DJM's experience with his GTS.....

However, I suppose if there's an opportunity to make a buck, may as well.......

Dirty 🐬 

Then again, it’s so hard to get a new GT car and we all know what happens to values so if there is any way you can rustle up the cash to take possession, even if you can’t afford to keep it, you would.  Wouldn’t you….?

sounds like GTS guy wasn’t ready until March but they wouldn’t keep it for him.  But then today they said PCB originally spec’d the car as a demo.  Was first registered Feb 22.  So not quite sure what the full story was.  But it’s in my garage now so 🤷‍♂️

[wilson59]

10 hours ago, DJM said:

Dirty 🐬 

Then again, it’s so hard to get a new GT car and we all know what happens to values so if there is any way you can rustle up the cash to take possession, even if you can’t afford to keep it, you would.  Wouldn’t you….?

sounds like GTS guy wasn’t ready until March but they wouldn’t keep it for him.  But then today they said PCB originally spec’d the car as a demo.  Was first registered Feb 22.  So not quite sure what the full story was.  But it’s in my garage now so 🤷‍♂️

Pictures when your ready thanks 

[wilson59]

5 minutes ago, DJM said:

Not a GT3 but you asked……

So here’s a few early snaps.  Really enjoying it, I get why every journo calls it “sweet spot”.  Now in for PPF pre Xmas.  Hills drive in Jan with a couple of different GT3s and RSs and a GT4 so will be interesting to compare.  I also plan a Porsche drive day at PI.

If needed, there’s always the $1,500 APR rune to throw an extra 100hp and 100Nm at it 😲 happy to cheat to win 😂

 

Very nice 

[ArthurK]

On 14/12/2022 at 21:32, DJM said:

Dirty 🐬 

Then again, it’s so hard to get a new GT car and we all know what happens to values so if there is any way you can rustle up the cash to take possession, even if you can’t afford to keep it, you would.  Wouldn’t you….?

sounds like GTS guy wasn’t ready until March but they wouldn’t keep it for him.  But then today they said PCB originally spec’d the car as a demo.  Was first registered Feb 22.  So not quite sure what the full story was.  But it’s in my garage now so 🤷‍♂️

Well done Doug, I was looking at the car when I had mine in for service. For a fleeting moment contemplated flipping my GTS for the one on the floor. 

Saw a GT4RS in there today looked great, im sure you will love it once you get it in your hands. Have come to the harsh realisation that there is no chance of getting a GT3RS so put myself on the .2 GT3 list today. Might even find it hard to land a GT3 too considering I am slot 15. Waited too long .........

[sleazius]

Its such a stupid situation - shouldn't they be trying to build to demand minus 1? Not demand -1000s.

The list doesn't mean anything, at least here in Sydney. Maybe it still does in Melbourne.

[DJM]

2 minutes ago, sleazius said:

Its such a stupid situation - shouldn't they be trying to build to demand minus 1? Not demand -1000s.

The list doesn't mean anything, at least here in Sydney. Maybe it still does in Melbourne.

Anything to do with the carbon balance rules across the cars they sell?  Harry Metcalfe talks about it briefly here from about 7:45.  Does that have some bearing on the on off build slots for the “polluting”  GT cars?   I have no idea but if there is no constraint like that, they yes they should build as many as they can sell given they make a motza on each car.

 

[mc968cs]

Anyone else think we have totally lost the plot on used Porsche prices in  Australia? This 992 gt3 in nz has an ask of Au$393k.  Seems appropriately discounted from new, as a used car. Sure explains why there are 12 listed in Aus on carsales that aren’t moving…! 
992 GT3 used in NZ for sale by Porsche dealer

 

[PAWGT3]

I guess the lack of the extortionate 33% luxury car tax in NZ accounts for a significant part of the price disparity. Nonetheless the fact that none of the local cars are moving suggests the $600k ish asking price is untenable 

[wilson59]

1 hour ago, PAWGT3 said:

I guess the lack of the extortionate 33% luxury car tax in NZ accounts for a significant part of the price disparity. Nonetheless the fact that none of the local cars are moving suggests the $600k ish asking price is untenable 

Agreed . Why people keep listing them at that price is just stupidity . 
 

[mc968cs]

2 hours ago, PAWGT3 said:

I guess the lack of the extortionate 33% luxury car tax in NZ accounts for a significant part of the price disparity. Nonetheless the fact that none of the local cars are moving suggests the $600k ish asking price is untenable 

Not sure. They are around $450 drive away in nsw brand new…so a lot less than ask on carsales of $600k plus. .

[edgy]

4 hours ago, mc968cs said:

Anyone else think we have totally lost the plot on used Porsche prices in  Australia?

General answer is yes, more specifically the late model over MSRP asking prices are the real issue I.e. the 992 GT3 price’s currently being ‘asked’ by sellers. 

2 hours ago, PAWGT3 said:

I guess the lack of the extortionate 33% luxury car tax in NZ accounts for a significant part of the price disparity. Nonetheless the fact that none of the local cars are moving suggests the $600k ish asking price is untenable 

I’ve long held the view that NZ being quite the free market with its relaxed imports laws & lack of BS taxes is a car buying haven, and having recently purchased a car in NZ, I’ve really come to realise that is true… also you realise how much anti-consumer laws exist here in Australia! 

[LeeM]

It's called opportunism  

 

[mc968cs]

2 hours ago, edgy said:

having recently purchased a car in NZ, I’ve really come to realise that is true… also you realise how much anti-consumer laws exist here in Australia! 

Oh congratulations- I got my first Porsche in nz while running a turnaround and growth of an nz business. Was a 968 Clubsport. 
what did you get? 

[PAWGT3]

Does anyone have insight into the import costs for a car bought in NZ and imported to Aus. I assume there is GST but no import tariff due to the free trade agreements with. NZ… but what about luxury car tax? Do you need an import license and/or have had to have owned the car for a certain period?

[wilson59]

7 hours ago, PAWGT3 said:

Does anyone have insight into the import costs for a car bought in NZ and imported to Aus. I assume there is GST but no import tariff due to the free trade agreements with. NZ… but what about luxury car tax? Do you need an import license and/or have had to have owned the car for a certain period?

Yes LCT still applies and same as everywhere else car has the 25 year or older rule . Personal import if you have lived and owned the car in NZ for over a year 

[edgy]

16 hours ago, mc968cs said:

Oh congratulations- I got my first Porsche in nz while running a turnaround and growth of an nz business. Was a 968 Clubsport. 
what did you get? 

This time just something JDM and purposeful for when we’re over visiting  family… at this point I guess you’d say we’re running a proof of concept with minimal $$$, if we find it works and I have the appetite, we will be looking for a Boxster/Cayman or 911, there are some outstanding roads & scenery in the South Island 👌🏼 Plus my license isn’t affected by the tickets 😆

6 hours ago, wilson59 said:

Yes LCT still applies and same as everywhere else car has the 25 year or older rule . Personal import if you have lived and owned the car in NZ for over a year 

I’d say the only variables will be cost of shipping & market price. 

[Shedpest]

I bought a 77 911 from NZ a few years back, only GST and shipping applied.

RORO from Auckland to Adelaide and GST was a bout 5k from memory.

One of the easiest imports I have ever done.

[PAWGT3]

Over 25 years old so makes sense

[VGTS20]

anyone familiar with the global sales volumes of 992.1 GT3’s either touring or winged since launch ?

I am wondering given we are at the midpoint of the life cycle of 992 when Gen I GT3 production is likely to cease, does late 2023 sound right to most ?

given stagnated supply over the course 2020 - 2023 of 911 the numbers of 992.1 GT3 would have to be low in comparison, I would think.

AD’s seem relatively tight lipped on sales numbers, if numbers are relatively low as such does 992 GT3 touring or winged then become a higher value proposition long term to the market ? 

[wilson59]

8 hours ago, VGTS20 said:

anyone familiar with the global sales volumes of 992.1 GT3’s either touring or winged since launch ?

I am wondering given we are at the midpoint of the life cycle of 992 when Gen I GT3 production is likely to cease, does late 2023 sound right to most ?

given stagnated supply over the course 2020 - 2023 of 911 the numbers of 992.1 GT3 would have to be low in comparison, I would think.

AD’s seem relatively tight lipped on sales numbers, if numbers are relatively low as such does 992 GT3 touring or winged then become a higher value proposition long term to the market ? 

I think most likely considering it will likely be one of the last ICE cars even more so . 
They are awesome cars

[hugh]

10 hours ago, VGTS20 said:

AD’s seem relatively tight lipped on sales numbers, if numbers are relatively low as such does 992 GT3 touring or winged then become a higher value proposition long term to the market ? 

Still will be far from a ‘rare’ car. Depreciation will be guided more so by spec and not paying too much for it in the first place! 

[edgy]

29 minutes ago, hugh said:

Still will be far from a ‘rare’ car.

This is what I can’t quite figure  ^^ 

if you look back when a 996 GT3 was 10 years old, they were a $100k ~ car all day long +/- OR 42% of original value (+ Options & ORC) quite an ordinary cycle I think we would agree? It’s only now at circa 20 years that they’ve come back to their new price, again quite ordinary… note: 997’s tracked pretty similar path to the 996. 

Now that the oldest 991 is at its 10th year, currently the lowest priced 991.1 is $270k, but on average of all listed 991.1’s $300k is a round number, this is just over the original new price (+ Options & ORC) … interestingly these did hit low 200’s around the 3-4 year old mark, and I’d suspect some were traded in sub 200 at that point in time. 

They made a lot of the 991.1 GT3 & RS, and with the looming expiry of the 10 year engine warranty, I think the next 5-10 years will be interesting for this car… I am trying to reconcile what fundamental is supporting this, if any,, but I can’t seem to get there…. 
 

really interested to hear peoples views on this, as I do wonder if there’s been a paradigm shift for all subsequent GT3’s from 991… and I’m not talking the over MSRP BS, the supposed strong resale value is the query at hand here… I’m not convinced personally 

[wilson59]

2 hours ago, hugh said:

Still will be far from a ‘rare’ car. Depreciation will be guided more so by spec and not paying too much for it in the first place! 

It was rare as it was almost impossible to buy one without paying $150K over retail very few would . 
I have gone from 997.1 to 997.2 to a 991.2 back to a 997.1 . I actually did not really like going back the rawness that some like I actually couldn’t stand it .

The 992 GT3 for me has been the best of the bunch I love the performance with the added comfort but within saying that would be happy to have the 991.2 . That is a great car as well . 

[DJM]

3 hours ago, wilson59 said:

I have gone from 997.1 to 997.2 to a 991.2 back to a 997.1 . I actually did not really like going back the rawness that some like I actually couldn’t stand it .

The 992 GT3 for me has been the best of the bunch I love the performance with the added comfort but within saying that would be happy to have the 991.2 . That is a great car as well,

Maybe something in that.  We’re all conditioned to want the rawest, most engaging cars but it takes a special kind of commitment I think.  Especially as I become an older and less tolerant of shit that doesn’t work, uncomfortable ride etc.

Having owned a couple of older cars (964 C2 and 996 GT2) and several of the newer cars (991 GT4, 991.2 GT3, 992 GTS), I too find it had to hanker for the old.  The new cars are supremely capable but they also have nav, good sound, AC that works, lumbar support, suspension and noise that can be dialled up or down.  
 

Older stuff is more rare but perhaps fewer buyers u for that commitment?  Newer stuff is plentiful but lots more buyers perhaps?  I also think the newer stuff appeals much more to “non Porsche” folks than the old.  Guys who really have no clue, don’t hang out in forums but want something “cool”.  Certainly lots of evidence of that on FB groups……….whereas the older GT cars tend to be chased by Porsche guys who are well versed on those cars.

no data to back that up but could be part of the 991 story.